The soul and the eternal soul

[Ross]

Here I am to learn about a Bible topic that I admittedly have never studied in any depth. I am bringing no pre conceived views; and I will base my conclusion upon the evidence provided. Please help me to understand this.

Firstly what is the soul of a man or woman?

Secondly, do other creatures have this?

And thirdly does Bible scripture give any indication that the soul lives on after death and or is immortal?

[Capbook]

Maybe I can request you for another verse that support that soul "cannot be killed by man".

Revelation 6: 9-11
"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

I colored blue above the "souls" and "slain" and others, yes, they were not killed by man, and also they were not killed by the second death opposed to your another stand.
The "fellow servants, their brothers and sisters" are living souls (Gen 2:7) no mentioned of who killed them, and also they were not killed by the second death, again opposed to your stand that only second death can kill the soul.
Not an excellent context to support your two interpretation.
Any other verse? I'm afraid you are left nothing.

[Ross]

Maybe I can request you for another verse that support that soul "cannot be killed by man".

Revelation 6: 9-11
"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

yes, they were not killed by man, and also they were not killed by the second death opposed to your another stand.
The "fellow servants, their brothers and sisters" are living souls (Gen 2:7) no mentioned of who killed them, and also they were not killed by the second death, again opposed to your stand that only second death can kill the soul.
Not an excellent context to support your two interpretation.
Any other verse? I'm afraid you are left nothing.

As well as denying clear and emphatic words of Jesus, and having no explanation of them, are you now dismissing the Revelation, or do you not understand it's clear words? Your Bible commentaries and dictionaries will universally attest to the understanding that this is referring to under the altar in heaven featuring Christian Martyrs put to death by man for their faithful witness.

And it doesn't say "the souls who had been slain". It says "the souls of those who had been slain". Check any interlinear or lexicon you wish. Those souls are alive having passed through death and are speaking. And this is prior to the ressurrection.

[Capbook]

Maybe I can request you for another verse that support that soul "cannot be killed by man".

Revelation 6: 9-11
"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

yes, they were not killed by man, and also they were not killed by the second death opposed to your another stand.
The "fellow servants, their brothers and sisters" are living souls (Gen 2:7) no mentioned of who killed them, and also they were not killed by the second death, again opposed to your stand that only second death can kill the soul.
Not an excellent context to support your two interpretation.
Any other verse? I'm afraid you are left nothing.

As well as denying clear and emphatic words of Jesus, and having no explanation of them, are you now dismissing the Revelation, or do you not understand it's clear words? Your Bible commentaries and dictionaries will universally attest to the understanding that this is referring to under the altar in heaven featuring Christian Martyrs put to death by man for their faithful witness.

And it doesn't say "the souls who had been slain". It says "the souls of those who had been slain". Check any interlinear or lexicon you wish. Those souls are alive having passed through death and are speaking. And this is prior to the ressurrection.

If I remember it right, these are the two interpretation you present;
1. soul cannot be killed by man,
2. only the second death can kill the soul.

It seems I see inconsistencies with your statement above I colored blue;
1. "Christian martyrs put to death by man" - Christian martyrs before death are living souls (Gen 2:7) killed by man.
2. "Prior to resurrection" - is prior to resurrection means before or after judgement of the second death?

[Ross]

If I remember it right, these are the two interpretation you present;
1. soul cannot be killed by man,
2. only the second death can kill the soul.

WRONG. NOT MY INTERPRETATION. THEY ARE THE WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST.

It seems I see inconsistencies with your statement above I colored blue;
1. "Christian martyrs put to death by man" - Christian martyrs before death are living souls (Gen 2:7) killed by man.

Don't you believe in progressive revelation? Shouldn't we give the explanations of The Lord and the Christian Greek scriptures precedence over what was partially revealed centuries earlier? This is why you believe in the trinity isn't it?
Hang on to a verse in the first book of the Bible for dear life if you have to.

2. "Prior to resurrection" - is prior to resurrection means before or after judgement of the second death?

The resurrection is to Judgement of everlasting life or second death is it not?

And how is it that John in his vision from The Lord of Lords, also divides those slain as separate from their souls?

Did you check the Koine' Greek and your lexicons that establish this fact?

And how is it that those faithful Christian martyrs who had been killed at the hands of persecutors were conscious and speaking?

[Capbook]

If I remember it right, these are the two interpretation you present;
1. soul cannot be killed by man,
2. only the second death can kill the soul.

WRONG. NOT MY INTERPRETATION. THEY ARE THE WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST.

It seems I see inconsistencies with your statement above I colored blue;
1. "Christian martyrs put to death by man" - Christian martyrs before death are living souls (Gen 2:7) killed by man.

Don't you believe in progressive revelation? Shouldn't we give the explanations of The Lord and the Christian Greek scriptures precedence over what was partially revealed centuries earlier? This is why you believe in the trinity isn't it?
Hang on to a verse in the first book of the Bible for dear life if you have to.

2. "Prior to resurrection" - is prior to resurrection means before or after judgement of the second death?

The resurrection is to Judgement of everlasting life or second death is it not?

And how is it that John in his vision from The Lord of Lords, also divides those slain as separate from their souls?

Did you check the Koine' Greek and your lexicons that establish this fact?

And how is it that those faithful Christian martyrs who had been killed at the hands of persecutors were conscious and speaking?

A quote from someone, said, "once you read a verse, if you do not apply any interpretation, I'm afraid you are just reading your own assumptions and preconceptions without knowing it"

Yes, I believe on progressive revelation, but what I was to point out was from your statement, "Christian martyrs put to death by man".
And yes, I root my definition of "living soul" in Genesis, as Bible lexicon below define "soul" in Hebrew "נפשׁ nephesh" as the man himself, living being, life, person, individual, living being (with life in the blood) etc.

H5315 (Brown-Driver-Briggs)
נפשׁ nephesh
BDB Definition:
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual

Yes, the resurrection is judgement of everlasting life or second death. But my question to your statement "prior to resurrection" do that mean before resurrection? I just want to be sure.

[Ross]

Yes, the resurrection is judgement of everlasting life or second death. But my question to your statement "prior to resurrection" do that mean before resurrection? I just want to be sure.

The verses explain that Christian martyrs were still being slain, and that the time of judgement had not yet arrived in the timeframe of the statements, so to that I believe there can be no doubt.

As for interpretation of scripture that is plainly and unambiguously written in Greek or English, I see a lot of attempts in this forum to 'explain away' such scripture because it doesn't fit with pre-conceptions.

Once again you were unable to answer my questions so I see this as going no further. But thanks for the discussion.

[Capbook]

Yes, the resurrection is judgement of everlasting life or second death. But my question to your statement "prior to resurrection" do that mean before resurrection? I just want to be sure.

The verses explain that Christian martyrs were still being slain, and that the time of judgement had not yet arrived in the timeframe of the statements, so to that I believe there can be no doubt.

Thanks, so, no second death yet but they were still being slain.

As for interpretation of scripture that is plainly and unambiguously written in Greek or English, I see a lot of attempts in this forum to 'explain away' such scripture because it doesn't fit with pre-conceptions.

No, not pre-conception because the basis of my belief of "living soul" Biblically rooted on Gen 2:7.

Once again you were unable to answer my questions so I see this as going no further. But thanks for the discussion.

Yes, some believe on eternal soul and some do not, as far as Matt 10:28 as proof text in question, supposedly it must be supported by other verses. I see that we agree to disagree with that.
Thanks then.