Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

[thomasdixon]

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis murder Palestinian children

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis destroy Palestinian fishing boats.

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis murder American citizens.

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis destroy Palestinian villages and then build illegally on top of the rubble.

28 Dec 2022
Benjamin Netanyahus incoming hardline government put West Bank settlement expansion at the top of its list of priorities on Wednesday, vowing to legalise dozens of illegally built outposts and annex the occupied territory as part of its coalition deal with its ultranational allies.
Netanyahu government makes West Bank settlement expansion its priority

We, as Americans, including American Jews must band together and demand that we, citizens of America STOP giving Israel money.
We must make our voices heard in Congress and directly to Biden.

Israel should be designated a terrorist state-?

opinions welcome yes/no/why

[Diogenes]

The U.S. should have stopped supporting Israel in 1947-48. That's when the genocide started.

I can only assume your graph represents the attempt at an argument. I say 'attempt' because I see no cogent argument. I can only guess at the 'point' the author tries to make.

And yet it was compelling enough for you to respond to it.

one must perpetrate several logical fallacies to think sheer population increase means no effort of genocide, displacement, and land theft have been perpetrated by the State of Israel against the the people of Palestine.

Is one of those logical fallacies moving the goal posts? Because I'm addressing your use of the word "genocide," while your response here tried to tack on other things.

That efforts to exterminate a race or ethnic group were not completely successful does not mean the policy of genocide did or does not exist. Both Jews and Arabs survived policies of genocide. You can add African Americans and Native Americans to that list.

That seems like a rather poorly conceived list. Here are the examples Britannica gives in its article on genocide:

Twentieth-century events often cited as genocide include the 1915 Armenian massacre by the Turkish-led Ottoman Empire, the nearly complete extermination of European Jews, Roma (Gypsies), and other groups by Nazi Germany during World War II, the killing of some three million Cambodians by the Khmer Rouge in the 1970s, and the killing of Tutsi by Hutu in Rwanda in the 1990s.

During the respective time periods when these genocides were perpetrated, do you think the Armenian population in the Ottoman Empire, the Jewish and Roma populations in Europe, the Tutsi population in Rwanda, and the Cambodian population under the Khmer Rouge went up or down?

According to you, the Israelis have been committing a "genocide" for the past 75 years, and yet the Arab population in both the Palestinian territories and Israel proper has only gone up. Are the Jews just uniquely bad at genocide? Or is "genocide" the wrong word to describe this conflict?

I respond to many ridiculous arguments. In fact, if we did not respond to ridiculous arguments made to support the claims of the Abrahamic religions, there would BE no arguments at all. . But as you suggest, I'll refrain, now, from responding to yours.
Except...
Speaking of ridiculous arguments, you ARE aware aren't you, that from 1947 to 2025, the world population experienced explosive growth, more than tripling from roughly 2.4 billion (around 1947/1950) to over 8.2 billion, adding over 5.8 billion people due to post-war medical advances, lower death rates, and increased food production, although the rate of growth peaked in the early 1960s and has since slowed significantly.
"Those pesky A-rabs! They just keep having babies faster than we can kill them."

Are you seriously suggesting that Netanyahu's war on Gaza is not genocidal in intent? In any event, the population of the Gaza Strip was approximately 2.1 million in 2020, about 2.2 million by late 2023, before declining to an estimated 2.05 to 2.1 million in 2025 due to the ongoing conflict. Despite criminal (Netanyahu) efforts, their genocide hasn't been as effective as they hoped.

Meanwhile...
Israel's population grew dramatically fromabout 900,000 in 1947-48 (around 630k Jewish, 1.3M total in Mandate Palestine) to over 10 million by 2025, driven by mass immigration post-statehood, reaching a projected 10.1-10.15 million by 2025, with Jewish citizens forming the majority and Arabs making up about a quarter.

[historia]

According to you, the Israelis have been committing a "genocide" for the past 75 years, and yet the Arab population in both the Palestinian territories and Israel proper has only gone up. Are the Jews just uniquely bad at genocide? Or is "genocide" the wrong word to describe this conflict?

I think the charge of genocide . . . is reasonable.

How so? And do you think it's been going on for 75 years?

Even today, some Israeli officials have been caught trying to justify starvation of millions of Palestinians (CNN). Such sentiment among Jews may've been more prevalent the farther back you go.

I think one of the fundamental mistakes people make when discussing the Israel-Palestine conflict is to just project the current state of affairs back into the past. Israeli attitudes today are quite different from those in the mid- to late-20th Century, and largely a response to the ongoing conflict.

The only disagreement i tend to have with the genocide charge is when it is applied just to the Jews.

I don't think the Palestinians are committing a genocide either. We should not throw that word around casually when talking about any and every war or conflict.

[Avoice]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #79]

The Jews are such a tiny fraction of the worlds population. The state of Israel is a mere sliver of land.
Yet you are obsessed with the place and the people. Whats up with that?

There are atrocities being committed in large numbers across the globe. No interest to you?

In all your rediculous arguments not one time do you speak in detail about the savage murders and brutal rapes comitted by Hamas. Where are your point-to-point critique of Palestinian terrorism?

You are ignorant. You use the word Palestinians and Palestine under a false definition. The people you refer to as Palestinians are Arabs. ARABS. They are Arabs who latched onto that identity when it didnt belong to them only. ANYONE living in the land called Palestine was a Palestinian. There were Palestinian Christians, Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The Arabs took over the name Palestinians and duped the world into thinking it was their land. Ignorant world thinks
"Ah ha! the people who call themselves Palestinian must be the indiginous people of the land known as Palestine!" Ignorant!!

Palestine, Palestine, Palestine.... genocide IS what it was born from. Genocide of the Jews. And ethnic cleansing has been comitted. Against the Jews.

All your statistics mean nothing. Start your defense at the begining. Where, when and how Palestine emerged. Start with that!

PALESTINE IS AN AREA OF LAND THAT WAS CALLED ISRAEL. THE LAND WHERE THE JEWS LIVED. ISRAEL WAS INVADED AND JEWS WERE KILLED AND EXPELLED. THOSE WHO STOLE THE LAND FROM THE JEWS CHANGED THE NAME TO SYRIA PALESTINA. It eventually boiled down to 'Palestine '

All your defense is based on the false narrative of the Arabs. The Arabs are on stolen land. Land stolen from the Jews. And then they have the f____g nerve to place blame on the victims- the Jews. The Jews were murdered and expelled.

But...in your defense...the accusations made against the Jews today are expected. Although the accusations are false they serve to prove the truth concerning Israel. The most spoken of prophecy in scripture is the return of the Jews to Israel. And that they will prosper. And all nations will turn against them. But God says no weapon formed against them will prosper. Yes, individual Jews have and will die. But the Nation of Israel can not be destroyed.
They carry Gods message to the world. Those who seek to destroy Israel seek their own destruction. As long as there are people in the world who want his message he wont destroy the world. (The way God did not destroy the world in the time of all the evil in Sodom and Gemmorah. Because there were still righteous among the evil)

"Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever"

If the sun rises tomorrow it is because the Nation of Israel exists. Because Gods message is still being upheld for those who want it. That, Mister, is keeping you alive

[historia]

you ARE aware aren't you, that from 1947 to 2025, the world population experienced explosive growth, more than tripling from roughly 2.4 billion (around 1947/1950) to over 8.2 billion, adding over 5.8 billion people due to post-war medical advances, lower death rates, and increased food production, although the rate of growth peaked in the early 1960s and has since slowed significantly.

Yes, that's precisely why actual genocides stand out. If you look at the genocides mentioned in the Britannica article above, you'll soon discover that the affected populations went down.

This is why your claim that the Israelis have been perpetuating a "genocide" for 75 years -- during which the Palestinian population has increased -- is silly.

In any event, the population of the Gaza Strip was approximately 2.1 million in 2020, about 2.2 million by late 2023, before declining to an estimated 2.05 to 2.1 million in 2025 due to the ongoing conflict.

Yes, conflicts have the unfortunate consequence of creating casualties.

"Those pesky A-rabs! They just keep having babies faster than we can kill them."

. . .

Despite criminal (Netanyahu) efforts, their genocide hasn't been as effective as they hoped.

The fact you have to invent quotes to support your position demonstrates its weakness.

The Israelis have the weaponry to wipe-out every Arab in Palestine in a matter of weeks. If they really wanted to commit a genocide, they could, starting with the Arab population in Israel proper, who have suffered no casualties during the Gaza war.

Your argument hinges on the fact that Jews are apparently just bad at committing genocide. That is silliness.

Meanwhile...
Israel's population grew dramatically fromabout 900,000 in 1947-48 (around 630k Jewish, 1.3M total in Mandate Palestine) to over 10 million by 2025, driven by mass immigration post-statehood, reaching a projected 10.1-10.15 million by 2025, with Jewish citizens forming the majority and Arabs making up about a quarter.

Yes, the Jews of the Middle East and North Africa were expelled from their homes and forced to migrate to Israel in the decades after its founding. In that way, the best historical parallel to the Israel-Palestine conflict is not the genocides of the 20th Century -- far from it -- but the partition of Pakistan and India, where two communities largely based on religious identity separated into two countries, with populations on both sides forced to move to the other.

[Diogenes]

you ARE aware aren't you, that from 1947 to 2025, the world population experienced explosive growth, more than tripling from roughly 2.4 billion (around 1947/1950) to over 8.2 billion, adding over 5.8 billion people due to post-war medical advances, lower death rates, and increased food production, although the rate of growth peaked in the early 1960s and has since slowed significantly.

Yes, that's precisely why actual genocides stand out. If you look at the genocides mentioned in the Britannica article above, you'll soon discover that the affected populations went down.

This is why your claim that the Israelis have been perpetuating a "genocide" for 75 years -- during which the Palestinian population has increased -- is silly.

In any event, the population of the Gaza Strip was approximately 2.1 million in 2020, about 2.2 million by late 2023, before declining to an estimated 2.05 to 2.1 million in 2025 due to the ongoing conflict.

Yes, conflicts have the unfortunate consequence of creating casualties.

"Those pesky A-rabs! They just keep having babies faster than we can kill them."

. . .

Despite criminal (Netanyahu) efforts, their genocide hasn't been as effective as they hoped.

The fact you have to invent quotes to support your position demonstrates its weakness.

The Israelis have the weaponry to wipe-out every Arab in Palestine in a matter of weeks. If they really wanted to commit a genocide, they could, starting with the Arab population in Israel proper, who have suffered no casualties during the Gaza war.

Your argument hinges on the fact that Jews are apparently just bad at committing genocide. That is silliness.

Meanwhile...
Israel's population grew dramatically fromabout 900,000 in 1947-48 (around 630k Jewish, 1.3M total in Mandate Palestine) to over 10 million by 2025, driven by mass immigration post-statehood, reaching a projected 10.1-10.15 million by 2025, with Jewish citizens forming the majority and Arabs making up about a quarter.

Yes, the Jews of the Middle East and North Africa were expelled from their homes and forced to migrate to Israel in the decades after its founding. In that way, the best historical parallel to the Israel-Palestine conflict is not the genocides of the 20th Century -- far from it -- but the partition of Pakistan and India, where two communities largely based on religious identity separated into two countries, with populations on both sides forced to move to the other.

Apparently you STILL don't understand the difference between ATTEMPTS at genocide vs. 100% success.

AI Overview:
Jewish population in Europe, 1933 compared to 2015. : r/MapPorn
The Jewish population experienced a devastating drop due to the Holocaust (from ~16.6M in 1939 to ~11M in 1946) but has seen significant recovery, nearing pre-Holocaust numbers (around 15-16 million globally) by the 2020s,

Are you seriously questioning the fact that Netanyahu's policies have not been larded with genocide against Palestinians. Perhaps it's the word 'genocide' you quarrel with. Whatever label you choose to put upon it, do you have any doubt that Netanyahoo's and his right wing Nazi-like comrades have not reduced Gaza to rubble, caused starvation, and even block food and other humanitarian aid from the people of Gaza?

[Diogenes]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #79]

The Jews are such a tiny fraction of the worlds population. The state of Israel is a mere sliver of land.
Yet you are obsessed with the place and the people. Whats up with that?

There are atrocities being committed in large numbers across the globe. No interest to you?

I am opposed to genocide and injustice of all kinds and to all people. The Jews have suffered and continue to suffer horrible prejudice and injustice. Many of them oppose the policies of prejudice and injustice upon Palestinians committed daily by NetanYAHOO and his minions. You write as if Jews are somehow immune to charges of injustice. You ARE familiar with Trump's Stephen Miller, are you not?
https://therevealer.org/stephen-miller- ... uch-worse/

(Image source: Wikipedia. A kapo at Salaspils concentration camp in Latvia, 1941.)
It’s easy to understand why progressive and centrist Jews have called Miller a kapo. He has been linked to white nationalist networks that crossover with neo-Nazis. Though he comes from a family of Jewish immigrants, he has devoted his life to targeting immigrant communities. Many Jews see him as betraying his Jewish identity and Jewish history.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts ... zi-germany

[historia]

Apparently you STILL don't understand the difference between ATTEMPTS at genocide vs. 100% success.

AI Overview:
Jewish population in Europe, 1933 compared to 2015. : r/MapPorn
The Jewish population experienced a devastating drop due to the Holocaust (from ~16.6M in 1939 to ~11M in 1946) but has seen significant recovery, nearing pre-Holocaust numbers (around 15-16 million globally) by the 2020s,

My guy, no one is arguing that a genocide has to result in the affected population being completely wiped out. The point I've made is that, during the course of a genocide, the affected population goes down.

That's true in all of the examples we saw in the Britannica article earlier, including the one you just gave here: During the Holocaust -- a genocide that lasted for four years, from 1941 to 1945 -- the Jewish population in Europe went down. After the genocide ended, the Jewish population began to recover.

You claimed that the "genocide" that you think the Israelis are currently committing "started in 1947/48," so over 75 years ago. That is an incredibly long period of time for a group to be committing a "genocide." And yet, during that time, the affected Palestinian population not only did not go down, it actually went up, and in fact grew at a rate that far exceeds the global average.

Perhaps it's the word 'genocide' you quarrel with.

Perhaps we should go back to the question I asked you earlier:

Are the Jews just uniquely bad at genocide? Or is "genocide" the wrong word to describe this conflict?

Which is it?

Whatever label you choose to put upon it, do you have any doubt that Netanyahoo's and his right wing Nazi-like comrades have not reduced Gaza to rubble, caused starvation, and even block food and other humanitarian aid from the people of Gaza?

The war in Gaza is terrible. Wars are terrible things. But you made a claim about the last 75 years, not just the last two. You don't seem prepared to defend it.

[Diogenes]

The war in Gaza is terrible. Wars are terrible things. But you made a claim about the last 75 years, not just the last two. You don't seem prepared to defend it.
[/quote]


Maybe I've lost track, but my central claim is that Zionists stole Palestinian land 75 or 76 years ago and have committed war crimes ever since. I've supported this with numerous citations. That you don't bother to read them is on you. WHY take the side of Israel, condemned by its own citizens for their atrocities and ongoing land theft in the West Bank and elsewhere? In 1947 the world's guilt over the holocaust AND Europe's desire to get rid of Jews combined to give them a pass to steal land to create a European State surrounded by Asians of an opposing religion. What could go wrong?

What I find telling is the almost universal support by evangelicals because it fits their goofy narrative about the "2d Coming." Jewish citizens of Israel are less biased and recognize the war crimes of Netanyahoo. This is one of MANY references about Jews condemning the excesses of Zionism and Netanyahu in particular.
https://www.haaretz.com/gaza/2026-01-01 ... de4df50000
You want more?

AI Overview
Yes, various Jewish individuals, human rights groups, and a segment of the American Jewish population have accused Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli government of committing war crimes and genocide during the ongoing conflict in Gaza
.
Accusations from Jewish Groups and Individuals

Israeli Human Rights Organizations: In July 2025, two leading Israeli human rights groups, B'Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, issued reports for the first time explicitly accusing Israel of committing genocide in Gaza. They argue that Israel's war tactics go beyond dismantling Hamas and aim to destroy Palestinian society in Gaza.
Poll Findings: A September 2025 Washington Post poll of American Jews found a significant level of disapproval regarding Israel's conduct in the Gaza war.
61% of respondents said Israel has committed war crimes.
Roughly 40% said Israel is guilty of genocide.
68% gave Netanyahu a negative leadership rating.
Protest Groups: Groups of Haredi Jews opposed to Zionism, such as Neturei Karta, have protested against Netanyahu at UN events.
Israeli Public Figures: An Israeli author, David Grossman, has reportedly accused the country of genocide in Gaza, and a former Israeli army chief and defense minister, Moshe Yaalon, accused Israel of committing war crimes and ethnic cleansing.

Formal International Accusations

International Criminal Court (ICC): In November 2024, the ICC issued arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu and his former defense minister, Yoav Gallant, for war crimes and crimes against humanity. The charges include:
Starvation as a method of warfare.
Intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population.
Murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts.
United Nations Commission of Inquiry: A UN Commission of Inquiry concluded in September 2025 that Israel has committed genocide in the Gaza Strip and that top officials, including Netanyahu and President Isaac Herzog, have incited the commission of genocide through their statements.
International Court of Justice (ICJ): South Africa filed a case at the ICJ accusing Israel of breaching the Genocide Convention. The ICJ is currently considering the case, which could take years for a final ruling

[Diogenes]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #79]

The Jews are such a tiny fraction of the worlds population. The state of Israel is a mere sliver of land.
Yet you are obsessed with the place and the people.

na
That Israel is small is a bogus argument. The issue is not acreage, but fairness and justice. Not to mention the thousands of lives lost in this eternal conflict, not to mention the world wide issues involving the U.S., Russia, Iran, China, Europe, et al.

[AgnosticBoy]

I think the charge of genocide . . . is reasonable.

How so? And do you think it's been going on for 75 years?

In a broader sense, 'genocide' has to do with the destruction of a nation or race. Going by the UN's definition, killing is just one way, but there are other ways to reach the same goal or effect.

United Nations definition of 'genocide':

Definition
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Even if we say that it's not genocide because the majority of Palestinians aren't be killed by force, but having the same result through non-lethal means (mass starvation, using fear to scare people off of their land) is not any less of a crime. And I believe that some in the Jewish leadership/military are guilty of the latter.

The only disagreement i tend to have with the genocide charge is when it is applied just to the Jews.

I don't think the Palestinians are committing a genocide either We should not throw that word around casually when talking about any and every war or conflict.

Agreed. I consider it likely for this conflict because there are some on both sides that want all of the land for themselves. That would involve removing or destroying one group (via lethal or non-lethal means or both). Knowing that's on the minds of many leaders of both sides, you have to consider that any large scale aggression is likely part of an act of genocide.