Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

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Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

Post #1

Post by thomasdixon »

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis murder Palestinian children

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis destroy Palestinian fishing boats.

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis murder American citizens.

The USA has looked the other way while Israelis destroy Palestinian villages and then build illegally on top of the rubble.

28 Dec 2022
Benjamin Netanyahus incoming hardline government put West Bank settlement expansion at the top of its list of priorities on Wednesday, vowing to legalise dozens of illegally built outposts and annex the occupied territory as part of its coalition deal with its ultranational allies.
Netanyahu government makes West Bank settlement expansion its priority


We, as Americans, including American Jews must band together and demand that we, citizens of America STOP giving Israel money.
We must make our voices heard in Congress and directly to Biden.

Israel should be designated a terrorist state-?

opinions welcome yes/no/why
8-)

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Re: Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

Post #81

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to Diogenes in post #79]

Yes, war broke out immediately.

Why do you fail to say how it broke out? Why ignore that critical piece of info?

THE ARABS STARTED IT! FIVE ARAB ARMIES WENT AFTER ISRAEL. THEN...THEN WAR BROKE OUT BETWEEN THEM.

If you summarized the US involvement in WWll what would be important to mention? How should the summary begin?

"After the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor...."

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Re: Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

Post #82

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #1]

Designate the USA as a terrorist state first.

Remember the bombs we dropped on Japan? Innocent people died. Thousands upon thousands. And thousands upon thousands suffered life-long illnesses and physical deformities.

Point the finger back at us first.

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Re: Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

Post #83

Post by Diogenes »

Avoice wrote: Sun Sep 28, 2025 5:55 am [Replying to Diogenes in post #79]

Yes, war broke out immediately.

Why do you fail to say how it broke out? Why ignore that critical piece of info?

THE ARABS STARTED IT! FIVE ARAB ARMIES WENT AFTER ISRAEL. THEN...THEN WAR BROKE OUT BETWEEN THEM.

If you summarized the US involvement in WWll what would be important to mention? How should the summary begin?

"After the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor...."
Is English not your first language? I ask because you appear to confuse "genocide" with "war." I used "genocide," not "War." Perhaps if you quoted post #79 it would assist you in presenting your argument more cogently.
I'll do it for you. I wrote:
The U.S. should have stopped supporting Israel in 1947-48. That's when the genocide started.

In November 1947, the UN passed Resolution 181, which partitioned British-mandate Palestine into separate Arab and Jewish states. Fighting broke out almost immediately between Arab and Zionist forces. Before the end of the British Mandate in May 1948, Zionist militias, including the Haganah, Irgun, and Lehi, began expelling Palestinians and destroying villages. Notable incidents include:

Balad al-Shaykh massacre On December 31, 1947, Zionist forces killed up to 70 Palestinians in the village of Balad al-Shaykh.

Al-Khisas raid On December 18, 1947, Zionist militias raided the village of Al-Khisas.

Deir Yassin massacre In April 1948, months after the UN Partition Plan was approved, Irgun and Lehi paramilitaries attacked the village of Deir Yassin, killing at least 107 Palestinians, including women and children

********
You ignored the Israeli genocide I cited. I gave several specific instances of the genocide starting in 1947 when Israel and the UN arbitrarily agreed the Jews should be given more than half of the land owned by Palestinians. Israelis then used genocide and fighting to steal more land owned by Palestinians, as I have documented above. This land theft and genocide by Israeli settlers has continued in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, decreed in 1947 as Palestinian. Israeli settlers continue these thefts today, along with the horrific genocide and bombing of the Gaza Strip. Is that why you talk about "WAR" rather than acknowledge the genocide and land theft that started the war.

Using YOUR example of Japan bombing Hawaii (it wasn't just Pearl Harbor), yes there were reasons Japan bombed Hawaii. Those reasons are a matter of history. John Toland's THE RISING SUN is one of many books that discuss those reasons. They include many mistakes by both America and Japan, among them U.S. arrogance and restrictions they placed on Japan and the Japanese, some of which were racist. Many thought FDR intentionally provoked Japan so he could convince Americans to fight the Nazis.

So you see, you have completely missed the point, which, in the case of Palestine, is that the war was caused by stealing land and murdering innocent Palestinians, including children. Genocide by Israel is one of the causes of the the continuing war waged by Israel. There have been atrocities committed by both sides.


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Re: Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

Post #84

Post by AgnosticBoy »

We finally have some progress towards peace.

I'm still pessimistic just as long as we have groups on both sides that want all of the land for themselves. Land is the root issue.

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Jews are apparently bad at genocide

Post #85

Post by historia »

Diogenes wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 5:20 pm
The U.S. should have stopped supporting Israel in 1947-48. That's when the genocide started.
Image

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Re: Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

Post #86

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Diogenes wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 5:20 pm The U.S. should have stopped supporting Israel in 1947-48. That's when the genocide started.

In November 1947, the UN passed Resolution 181, which partitioned British-mandate Palestine into separate Arab and Jewish states. Fighting broke out almost immediately between Arab and Zionist forces. Before the end of the British Mandate in May 1948, Zionist militias, including the Haganah, Irgun, and Lehi, began expelling Palestinians and destroying villages. Notable incidents include:

Balad al-Shaykh massacre On December 31, 1947, Zionist forces killed up to 70 Palestinians in the village of Balad al-Shaykh.

Al-Khisas raid On December 18, 1947, Zionist militias raided the village of Al-Khisas.

Deir Yassin massacre In April 1948, months after the UN Partition Plan was approved, Irgun and Lehi paramilitaries attacked the village of Deir Yassin, killing at least 107 Palestinians, including women and children
Had to do more research to find more context. The picture you paint makes it seem like it was a one-sided aggression carried out by the Jews and completely unprovoked. It also leaves out times where some of the Jewish attacks came after attacks by Arabs, like the Al-Khisas attack you brought up. In that attack, the Jews were retaliating, although i'd say it was excessive and wrong.

The al-Khisas raid, also known as the al-Khisas massacre, was an attack on the Palestinian village of al-Khisas carried out by the Palmach on December 18, 1947, during the 1948 Palestine war.
The attack took place during the civil war phase of the 1948 Palestine war and was conducted as a reprisal for the killing of a Jewish man near Al-Khisas.[a] Local Palmach commanders decided to launch a retaliatory attack on the village, arguing that "if there was no reaction to the murder, the Arabs would interpret this as a sign of weakness and an invitation to further attacks".
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khisas_raid

Also a civil war (as opposed to just one side trying to commit genocide) started between the Arabs and Jews in Palestine in 1947 right after the UN voted to make Palestine into two states.
On November 29, 1947, the United Nations (UN) voted to partition the British mandate of Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state (see United Nations Resolution 181). Clashes broke out almost immediately between Jews and Arabs in Palestine, beginning with the Arab ambush of a bus carrying Jewish passengers from Netanya to Jerusalem on November 30. As British troops prepared to withdraw from Palestine, conflict continued to escalate, with both Jewish and Arab forces committing hostile acts. .
Source: https://www.britannica.com/event/Arab-Israeli-wars

In fact, an attack that happened earlier than all of the Jewish attacks you listed was carried about by Arabs against Jews in November of 1947:
On November 30, 1947, an Egged bus on its way to Jerusalem from Netanya was attacked by Arab militants, followed by an attack on another bus, killing seven Jews. It was the first attack following the UN's adoption of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine, which took place the day before.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajja_bus_attacks

Fast forward, we can say that the Jews gained an upper hand and engaged in acts of genocide or ethnic cleansing which made a lot of Palestinians flee in fear. Google Ai explains it as this,
The 1948 expulsion and displacement of Palestinians is called the Nakba (or al-Nakba), which is an Arabic word meaning "catastrophe" or "disaster".
This event refers to the period during the 1948 Palestine war when approximately 700,000 to 750,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled from their homes and land by Zionist militias and the new Israeli army, becoming refugees in neighboring countries or internally displaced within what became the State of Israel.
Not much different than what we have now. Both sides are willing to engage in genocide and sometimes act on it, but Israel just has the means to inflict greater damage and genocide even.
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Re: Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

Post #87

Post by oldbadger »

Avoice wrote: Sun Sep 28, 2025 5:46 am [Replying to oldbadger in post #77]

You determine right and wrong by how many killed?

Let's talk about the bombs we dropped on Japan. I believe Americans cheered that. Oh, such disproportion! Right?
But it ended the war huh?
Is that how you would feel comfortable with the countless deaths of women and children in Gaza? These look like international crime to me.

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Re: Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

Post #88

Post by Diogenes »

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #86]
I have no problem whatsoever with the claim of atrocities and provocations an both (or all) sides. That is the nature of man and his tribes.
However, I have little tolerance for the absurd idea that somehow there was justification for the creation of the State of Israel because 'Jews owned the land.' Hebrews, like all tribes, stole land from other tribes, but the operative fact is that following the Muslim conquest in 638 CE. were a minority in the region until the establishment of the modern State of Israel in 1948,

What other examples in human history do we have where, after 13 centuries, a group from another continent (European Jews) invaded another land and claimed ownership 1300 years later? And they did so with the blessing of most of. the world who A) felt guilty about their treatment of the Jews, particularly during the Holocaust, AND because of continuing antisemitism - Europeans wanted the Jews OUT of Europe. Thus antisemitism allied with Zionism to 'legitimize' the expulsion of Palestinians from their own land. Just like Hitler and the Nazis they used any means necessary .
Certainly Palestinians responded in kind. The Palestinian response served to give Israel plenty of legitimate excuses to take even more land. But the original crime in 1947-48 has never been rectified. And now under the war criminal Netanyahu, Israel wants the rest of the Levant/Palestine. Because of that original crime, there will never be peace in the region.

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Re: Jews are apparently bad at genocide

Post #89

Post by Diogenes »

historia wrote: Tue Nov 11, 2025 2:11 pm
Diogenes wrote: Fri Sep 19, 2025 5:20 pm
The U.S. should have stopped supporting Israel in 1947-48. That's when the genocide started.
Image
I can only assume your graph represents the attempt at an argument. I say 'attempt' because I see no cogent argument. I can only guess.
at the 'point' the author tries to make.
Despite the fact the Arab population of Palestine grew significantly from around 1.2 million in 1947 to an estimated 1.4 million in 1950, tho' a large portion was displaced during the 1948 war and that the total population for the West Bank and Gaza is approximately 4.5 million as of 2017, whatever the actual numbers may be, one must perpetrate several logical fallacies to think sheer population increase means no effort of genocide, displacement, and land theft have been perpetrated by the State of Israel against the the people of Palestine.
That efforts to exterminate a race or ethnic group were not completely successful does not mean the policy of genocide did or does not exist. Both Jews and Arabs survived policies of genocide. You can add African Americans and Native Americans to that list.

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Re: Does the USA need to STOP supporting ISRAEL NOW-?

Post #90

Post by oldbadger »

Diogenes wrote: Thu Nov 27, 2025 10:57 pm [Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #86]
I have no problem whatsoever with the claim of atrocities and provocations an both (or all) sides. That is the nature of man and his tribes.
However, I have little tolerance for the absurd idea that somehow there was justification for the creation of the State of Israel because 'Jews owned the land.' Hebrews, like all tribes, stole land from other tribes, but the operative fact is that following the Muslim conquest in 638 CE. were a minority in the region until the establishment of the modern State of Israel in 1948,

What other examples in human history do we have where, after 13 centuries, a group from another continent (European Jews) invaded another land and claimed ownership 1300 years later? And they did so with the blessing of most of. the world who A) felt guilty about their treatment of the Jews, particularly during the Holocaust, AND because of continuing antisemitism - Europeans wanted the Jews OUT of Europe. Thus antisemitism allied with Zionism to 'legitimize' the expulsion of Palestinians from their own land. Just like Hitler and the Nazis they used any means necessary .
Certainly Palestinians responded in kind. The Palestinian response served to give Israel plenty of legitimate excuses to take even more land. But the original crime in 1947-48 has never been rectified. And now under the war criminal Netanyahu, Israel wants the rest of the Levant/Palestine. Because of that original crime, there will never be peace in the region.
Jews did not take the lands that became Israel circa 1948ish. Jews were (mostly) given access to those by Great Britain with other countries in support.

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