The Son of God

[Ross]

I would like to address the question of origin of the Son of God.
While it is hoped that this will not become another Trinitarian/Arian debate, it is highly likely that this may happen, so I only ask that the subject matter if possible can please remain on topic.

My question is:
Was The Word; the pre-existent Jesus, the Son of God? Was he always the Son of God? Or did he become the Son of God at some point in time, for example when he became flesh? Or when he was pre-ordained to become a man?

The possible answers open up many questions, but I would like to keep this simple for the time being.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #40]

I posted extensively on this subject matter here:

viewtopic.php?t=39482

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #40]

I posted extensively on this subject matter here:

viewtopic.php?t=39482

I read what you posted, none of it quoted Jesus saying ,he is God or claim equality with the Father.

JW

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #42]

Okay, so I made my points with scripture and you disagree.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #42]

Okay, so I made my points with scripture and you disagree.

You offered your OPINION on scriptures ; scriptures that do not reflect your statements. I disagree with your opinion.

[Ross]

It looks as though this topic is going into oblivion without any further address of my comments, so I will close with Luke 1:35

"The angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God."

Like a miracle, my thread has come back to life; so I must keep it on track if possible.

The above verse without any doubt affirms the title "Son of God" to the incarnation. "He will be called the Son of God"

[Ross]

And again:
Mat 16:13,16:

" Jesus came into the country of Caesarea Philippi. He asked His followers, “Who do people say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Again: the Son of Man; (The Christ, Messiah, incarnation) = the Son of the living God."

I am open to correction. Please correct me.

[Ross]

And again:
Mark 5:2,6,7

"And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him. And he cried out with a loud voice and said, “What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? "

The Son of God as affirmed also by demons is Jesus on earth. The incarnate. Not the pre incarnate.

[tam]

Peace to you, Ross, and to you all,

For as long as He has existed, He has been God's Son. He was born from God.

Could you please explain this? You appear to address 'Son of God' as being born from God.

I will try, but please forgive me if I misunderstand what you are asking.

When I said that Christ (Jaheshua) is born from God, I meant that just as it sounds. Man can become sons of God via adoption (through Christ). But Christ Jaheshua - before He was ever born as a man - was born from God, as a/the Spirit.

He is the actual and firsborn Son of God.

His Father brought Him forth.

From Proverbs 8 (speaking of Wisdom, who is also Jaheshua):

[The LORD] brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23
I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, before the world came to be.
24
When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25
before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,


Does that help answer your question or were you meaning something different?


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I guessed that that was probably what you meant. This is the Arian theology, mainly adopted today by Jehovah's Witnesses and The Church of Latter Day Saints.

I don't think this is Arian theology (which I suspect has various interpretations anyway.) I am not a big fan of labels for this reason.

Christ is the One speaking in Proverbs 8. He is Wisdom. (That doesn't make the JW religion true, any more than someone accepting the trinity means they think the RCC religion is true.)

So let's look at some things said:


Hear, for I will speak noble things,
and from my lips will come what is right,
for my mouth will utter truth;

Christ speaks truth.
We're supposed to be listening to Him.

All the words of my mouth are righteous;
there is nothing twisted or crooked in them.
They are all straight to him who understands,
and right to those who find knowledge.
I have counsel and sound wisdom;
I have insight; I have strength.

This is all true of Christ, the Righteous One. He is our Teacher.


By me kings reign,
and rulers decree what is just;
16
by me princes rule,
and nobles, all who govern justly.

Those who reign in the Kingdom as king-priests do so by Christ, and He is the One who chooses. (Rev 3:21, Luke 22:29-30; John 15:16, 19) He makes kings.

“And now, O sons, listen to me:
blessed are those who keep my ways.
Hear instruction and be wise,
and do not neglect it.
Blessed is the one who listens to me,
watching daily at my gates,
waiting beside my doors.

Are we not blessed if we listen to Christ? Did God not say, "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."

And more:
35
For whoever finds me finds life
and obtains favor from [the Lord],

Do we not find life if we find Christ?

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."
"For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."


Christ is the One who calls ("Come, follow me...", see also Revelation 22:17; Proverbs 8:1.) His mouth utters what is true. It is by Him that kings reign in the Kingdom. It is when we find Christ that we find life - He IS the LIFE. It is HIS instruction we are to hear and heed (He is the Teacher; His sheep listen to His voice.)

Best to hear and understand these things from Christ, Himself, of course. Ask HIM to show us the truth on this (or any other) matter.

Have you had association with either in the past?

I did a 'bible study' with them many years ago. I did not join.

Had Proverbs undoubtedly referred to the pre existent Jesus Christ as you have, then it would have been emphatic. But it doesn't. It appears to personify wisdom.

Do you not think there are any other verses in the OT (such as Psalms, Isaiah, Proverbs, etc.) that are actually about/from Christ, even though they're being attributed to David (or someone else)?

**

I know Proverbs 8 is about Christ. Wisdom here is Christ. I can hear this when I read the passage because my Lord gave me ears to hear. It has nothing to do with a theology or a religion. This is my dear Lord. He is the One calling out, He is the One instructing/teaching me, He is the One who grants riches - in holy spirit; fruit - as in love, patience, joy, faith; He is the One who grants life; He is the One by whom kings reign, He is the One to whom I am to listen (the one to whom the Father has told me to listen.)


May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, and may anyone who thirsts and anyone who wishes, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"


Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy