The Son of God

[Ross]

I would like to address the question of origin of the Son of God.
While it is hoped that this will not become another Trinitarian/Arian debate, it is highly likely that this may happen, so I only ask that the subject matter if possible can please remain on topic.

My question is:
Was The Word; the pre-existent Jesus, the Son of God? Was he always the Son of God? Or did he become the Son of God at some point in time, for example when he became flesh? Or when he was pre-ordained to become a man?

The possible answers open up many questions, but I would like to keep this simple for the time being.

[Ross]

Look like you are saying Donald Trump is NOT President of US.

Donald Trump was not President Trump before his first inauguration as President.

Was Jesus Christ Jesus Christ before his birth as a man?

[beechan]

Donald Trump was not President Trump before his first inauguration as President.

Was Jesus Christ Jesus Christ before his birth as a man?

But Jesus is always the Son of God, and the Son of God is God. (John 1:1)
When the Son of God took a human body to become a man:Jesus, it does not mean he is no longer the Son of God.

You JW always wish Jesus is only a prophet, a servant send by God.
So Russell, Rutherford and JW elders are also prophets, servant, and equal with Jesus!

[Ross]

You JW always wish Jesus is only a prophet send by God.
So Russell and JW elders are also prophets, and equal with Jesus!

Beechan, I will forgive you for assuming that I am a Jehovah's Witness. I am not.

Incidentally, the Jehovah's Witnesses would disagree with me on this examination of scripture, as they believe that the pre-human Jesus is/was The Son of God.

Also I stated earlier in this thread that I do not doubt that Jesus is God.

But Jesus is always the Son of God, and the Son of God is God. (John 1:1)
When the Son of God took a human body to become a man:Jesus, it does not mean he is no longer the Son of God.

Please show me where in John 1:1 it states that the pre existent Jesus is the Son of God. There is no "Son" in the Greek text of John 1:1. He is addressed as The Word.

[Zorn]

Jesus was called "the Son of God"
ONLY because God the Holy Spirit
"played the role of" Jesus' father.

[beechan]

Please show me where in John 1:1 it states that the pre existent Jesus is the Son of God. There is no "Son" in the Greek text of John 1:1. He is addressed as The Word.

John 1;1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was God


Word was with God, so Word and God are two entities.
Word was God: meaning at the same time they are ONE.

1:14
And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
Where else in the scripture you find a spiritual being became flesh and dwelled among us, other than Jesus.

When Jesus baptize in Jordon River, a voice from above saying :"This is my own dear son..."


God called his other entity who became flesh and dwelled among us: "Son".

So Jesus is the Son of God and is God.

Why this 'Son' is called Word?
John 1:4 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be.
In Genesis, the Son and Father (God) created all things just by saying....Let there be light, and there is light.

[placebofactor]

I would like to address the question of origin of the Son of God.
While it is hoped that this will not become another Trinitarian/Arian debate, it is highly likely that this may happen, so I only ask that the subject matter if possible can please remain on topic.

My question is:
Was The Word; the pre-existent Jesus, the Son of God? Was he always the Son of God? Or did he become the Son of God at some point in time, for example when he became flesh? Or when he was pre-ordained to become a man?

The possible answers open up many questions, but I would like to keep this simple for the time being.

I may be cheating concerning your question. Before the birth of Jesus, and under the O.T. dispensation, the angel Gabriel said to Mary.

Luke 1:31-32, "And behold, thou shall conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus. He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest (the Father), and the Lord God (the Father) shall give unto him the throne of his Father David."

So, we have a direct connection that the seed Mary was going to receive in her womb, is the Son of the Highest, and the Lord God (the Father) will give him a throne over the house of Israel.

The verse covers both Jesus being the Son of God, and the Son of man (David)

[tam]

For as long as He has existed, He has been God's Son. He was born from God.

Could you please explain this? You appear to address 'Son of God' as being born from God.

I will try, but please forgive me if I misunderstand what you are asking.

When I said that Christ (Jaheshua) is born from God, I meant that just as it sounds. Man can become sons of God via adoption (through Christ). But Christ Jaheshua - before He was ever born as a man - was born from God, as a/the Spirit.

He is the actual and firsborn Son of God.

His Father brought Him forth.

From Proverbs 8 (speaking of Wisdom, who is also Jaheshua):

[The LORD] brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23
I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, before the world came to be.
24
When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25
before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,


Does that help answer your question or were you meaning something different?


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Peace to you,

the Word - who is Jaheshua and who existed before coming to earth as a man - was/is the Son of God.

The Word became flesh and made HIS dwelling among us. Well, Christ is the one who had flesh and dwelt among us.

And yet the Jesus was not called or was Jesus or the messiah Christ until he became a man.

Do you mean you believe this was not His name (or His title) until He became a man?

I'm not sure that is correct.

(I mean, yes, "Jesus" was not ever His name. His name is Jaheshua (JAH saves/savior of JAH). His name has meaning. And why would His name not contain the name of His Father in it, when He came in the name of His Father? Like some of the prophets: EliJAH; JerimIAH; IsaIAH.)

Even if that were true, I'm not sure why that matters. My name is Tammy. I'm also a daughter. Later I was a wife. Also a mother. My last name has changed three times in my life. But no matter how you refer to me, it is still me. I am the same person. So you could call me Tammy. Or you could call me the daughter of "insert parent's name here." Or the wife of "so and so" or the mother of "so and so."

The name of my Lord, that He has confirmed to me IS His name, is the name I use. Christ or Messiah are titles/descriptions. The Christ - the Anointed One; the MessIAH - the Chosen One of JAH. Christ also said that He is the Resurrection, the Life, the Light, the Way, the Truth.

So the Word is Christ (Jaheshua). Before He became a man, sure, but still the same person.

"The Word became flesh and made HIS dwelling among us."

HIS refers to the Word. Therefore, the Word dwelt among us. The One who dwelt among us is Christ. Therefore, Christ is the Word.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Peace again to you,

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. Hebrews 1:1-2

The reference in the verse is "of these last days", the time of Jesus' presence on earth. He was indeed "The Son" at that time. He also made the universe with his Father "in the past" which was a time long before.

Yes I understand that, but grammatically speaking, it is the Son through whom He (God) made the universe. This isn't about the timing of events. The timing of the events doesn't change the grammar of the sentence.

Today Tammy went to work, but a long time ago she went to school. Two time periods are being discussed, but 'she' is still the pronoun referring to 'Tammy'.

He has spoken to us by His Son, WHOM (whom is directly referring to His Son), He appointed heir of all things, and through WHOM (whom is still referring to His Son) He made the universe.

Please bear with me if you had a different point that I missed entirely.

Peace again to you!

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus was called "the Son of God"

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES believe Jesus to be the Son of God.