The Son of God

[Ross]

I would like to address the question of origin of the Son of God.
While it is hoped that this will not become another Trinitarian/Arian debate, it is highly likely that this may happen, so I only ask that the subject matter if possible can please remain on topic.

My question is:
Was The Word; the pre-existent Jesus, the Son of God? Was he always the Son of God? Or did he become the Son of God at some point in time, for example when he became flesh? Or when he was pre-ordained to become a man?

The possible answers open up many questions, but I would like to keep this simple for the time being.

[Ross]

John 1;1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was God


Word was with God, so Word and God are two entities.
Word was God: meaning at the same time they are ONE.

1:14
And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
Where else in the scripture you find a spiritual being became flesh and dwelled among us, other than Jesus.

When Jesus baptize in Jordon River, a voice from above saying :"This is my own dear son..."


God called his other entity who became flesh and dwelled among us: "Son".

So Jesus is the Son of God and is God.

I do not disagree with any of the above. But it does not address if the Christ Jesus was The Son before his birth on earth as a man, which is the topic of discussion.

Why this 'Son' is called Word?
John 1:4 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be.
In Genesis, the Son and Father (God) created all things just by saying....Let there be light, and there is light.

You are adding to the verses. John gives the title "Word" to the pre existent Christ.
Genesis does not say 'The Son and Father created all things.'

Show me where Jesus was "The Son" before his human birth."

Why did John not say "In the beginning was The Son?"

[Ross]

I may be cheating concerning your question. Before the birth of Jesus, and under the O.T. dispensation, the angel Gabriel said to Mary.

Luke 1:31-32, "And behold, thou shall conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus. He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest (the Father), and the Lord God (the Father) shall give unto him the throne of his Father David."

So, we have a direct connection that the seed Mary was going to receive in her womb, is the Son of the Highest, and the Lord God (the Father) will give him a throne over the house of Israel.

The verse covers both Jesus being the Son of God, and the Son of man (David)

Thank you for your answer. As I read the verses, they are all prophetic and refer to after or during conception.

Perhaps I should have said before conception rather than birth.

[Ross]

For as long as He has existed, He has been God's Son. He was born from God.

Could you please explain this? You appear to address 'Son of God' as being born from God.

I will try, but please forgive me if I misunderstand what you are asking.

When I said that Christ (Jaheshua) is born from God, I meant that just as it sounds. Man can become sons of God via adoption (through Christ). But Christ Jaheshua - before He was ever born as a man - was born from God, as a/the Spirit.

He is the actual and firsborn Son of God.

His Father brought Him forth.

From Proverbs 8 (speaking of Wisdom, who is also Jaheshua):

[The LORD] brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23
I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, before the world came to be.
24
When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25
before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,


Does that help answer your question or were you meaning something different?


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I guessed that that was probably what you meant. This is the Arian theology, mainly adopted today by Jehovah's Witnesses and The Church of Latter Day Saints. Have you had association with either in the past?

Had Proverbs undoubtedly referred to the pre existent Jesus Christ as you have, then it would have been emphatic. But it doesn't. It appears to personify wisdom.

[Ross]

Peace to you,

the Word - who is Jaheshua and who existed before coming to earth as a man - was/is the Son of God.

The Word became flesh and made HIS dwelling among us. Well, Christ is the one who had flesh and dwelt among us.

And yet the Jesus was not called or was Jesus or the messiah Christ until he became a man.

Do you mean you believe this was not His name (or His title) until He became a man?

I'm not sure that is correct.

My examination of scripture here is if the pre existent Jesus was The Son of God and held this title before coming to earth.

[Ross]

Yes I understand that, but grammatically speaking, it is the Son through whom He (God) made the universe. This isn't about the timing of events. The timing of the events doesn't change the grammar of the sentence.

I can understand why and how you read it in that manner. It can also be read that the same person who is now The Son made the universe with God.

A few verses later in Hebrews 1:5,6

"For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father" ?
Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

These are quotations from Psalm 2:7 and 2 Sam 7:14 speaking of the then future time, of the time of the Messiah, of Jesus Christ.

[Zorn]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #20]
40? years ago, I had a John Ankerberg VHS tape
which had the testimonies of 8 ex-JW women.
Their testimonies were very revealing about
their JW experiences and how thankful they were
to be delivered from that whole unscriptural mess.

[Ross]

It looks as though this topic is going into oblivion without any further address of my comments, so I will close with Luke 1:35

"The angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God."

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus was called "the Son of God"

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES believe Jesus to be the Son of God.

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #20]
40? years ago ...

I dont understand your question. Jehovah's Witnesses have always believed Jesus to be the Son of God.

[Brightfame52]

Jesus was called "the Son of God"

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES believe Jesus to be the Son of God.

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #20]
40? years ago ...

I dont understand your question. Jehovah's Witnesses have always believed Jesus to be the Son of God.

They dont believe it the correct way however, being the Son of God scripturally establishes that He is also God, full equality in the Godhead Jn 5:18

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jn 10:36

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

[JehovahsWitness]

... being the Son of God scripturally establishes that He is also God

I have never read any scripture that says that, and certainly Jesus is nowhere recorded as saying that being the Son of God makes him God. Jehovah's Witnesses get out beliefs from the bible not Catholic dogma, so we hold Jesus is the Son of God because that's who he said he is.


Everything else is just gravy,

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS