My, God, my God, why?

[placebofactor]

The following will likely open a can of worms. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but understood by the authority of the Holy Spirit. Before you answer, consider all the details that led up to this moment.

It concerns Matthew 27:46. We find Jesus hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of Jews, Gentiles, and religious leaders who hated him. These were people he taught, healed, and fed. Before he died, he made two statements. The first,

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” The word forsaken means to abandon completely, to turn one’s back on someone, and walk away.

His last words are found in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.” Then his spirit left him.

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

[Capbook]

If Jesus as "a god and not a true God to JWs", why you worship and serve Him?

So you believe Jesus is a true God?

Yes...

So you have no problem calling Jesus --> A < ----God ?





JW

How many TRUE GODs are there ? [Only True God explained]
viewtopic.php?p=1114357#p1114357

True Godship of Jesus is my main concern not the "a".
I know you worship Jesus, but Jesus said, "worship the Lord your God and serve Him only."
Why you would not answer the question;
Whose words you only obey? Jesus or the Father?

For mankind, there is one true God, he's called in the O.T. Jehovah, in the new, he is called Jesus. And whatever he does, or speaks, his blessings and judgments are all done to glorify his Father who is also known as Jehovah.

I don't know if you remember George Forman, he was the heavyweight boxing champion for three different decades. He has a family and has four sons. Their names are, George, George, George and George. My Father's name was Phillip, and my name is Phillip. If my mother wanted me, and my father and I were in the same room, she said, "Hay you" then I knew she wanted me. I cannot, for the life of me understand why it's so difficult for anyone to understand that the Son of God, who is the express image and likeness of his Father carries the same name as his father. It's a common practice worldwide and has been in all generations.

Do you mean that the Father in the OT is Jesus in the NT?

Isaiah 9:6, Unto the Jews, a son is given: "And the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting FATHER, the Prince of Peace."

Look at that verse and give it a lot of consideration. First of all, Isaiah was a Jew living under the law. If Isaiah had been lying about the Son of God being called God and Father, and the religious leaders thought he was worshipping another God or a god, or wrongly calling the Son Father, they would have stoned him to death. That was the law.

Isaiah was a prophet of God, the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 came to him from the LORD. Verse 10, The increase of (Jesus) government and peace there shall be no end," Compare with,

Titus 2:13, "Looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great (mighty) God and our Savior Jesus Christ;" Verse 14, "Who gave himself for us," If you don't read anything into it, you will understand.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:7 tells us who to look for, "waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ:"

One more time: Jesus is our God, Father, Saviour, Hope, Redeemer, Judge, and future Husband, ALL TO THE GLORY OF HIS FATHER. The bride of Christ will one day stand before Jesus' Father, who will welcome his Son and his bride with open arms.

Yes, if we also understand who Jesus is in the NT as "and God was the word" in John 1:1.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwell among us.

If you noticed two is being mentioned on verses below. The "word of the Lord" and Abram and Samuel addressed as the "LORD".
And in 1 Sam 3:21, the LORD appeared again in Shiloh and revealed Himself by "the word of the Lord".
It appears that there are two beings/person, the "LORD" the Tetragrammaton" and the "word of the Lord" as to me the one when the Father said, "let us make man in our image."

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Gen 15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
Gen 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness

1Sa 3:1 And the child Samuel ministered unto the LORD before Eli. And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.
1Sa 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.
1Sa 3:11 And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle

1Sa 3:21 And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD

[onewithhim]

If Jesus as "a god and not a true God to JWs", why you worship and serve Him?

So you believe Jesus is a true God?

Yes...

So you have no problem calling Jesus --> A < ----God ?





JW

How many TRUE GODs are there ? [Only True God explained]
viewtopic.php?p=1114357#p1114357

True Godship of Jesus is my main concern not the "a".
I know you worship Jesus, but Jesus said, "worship the Lord your God and serve Him only."
Why you would not answer the question;
Whose words you only obey? Jesus or the Father?

For mankind, there is one true God, he's called in the O.T. Jehovah, in the new, he is called Jesus. And whatever he does, or speaks, his blessings and judgments are all done to glorify his Father who is also known as Jehovah.

I don't know if you remember George Forman, he was the heavyweight boxing champion for three different decades. He has a family and has four sons. Their names are, George, George, George and George. My Father's name was Phillip, and my name is Phillip. If my mother wanted me, and my father and I were in the same room, she said, "Hay you" then I knew she wanted me. I cannot, for the life of me understand why it's so difficult for anyone to understand that the Son of God, who is the express image and likeness of his Father carries the same name as his father. It's a common practice worldwide and has been in all generations.

Do you mean that the Father in the OT is Jesus in the NT?

Isaiah 9:6, Unto the Jews, a son is given: "And the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting FATHER, the Prince of Peace."

Look at that verse and give it a lot of consideration. First of all, Isaiah was a Jew living under the law. If Isaiah had been lying about the Son of God being called God and Father, and the religious leaders thought he was worshipping another God or a god, or wrongly calling the Son Father, they would have stoned him to death. That was the law.

Isaiah was a prophet of God, the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 came to him from the LORD. Verse 10, The increase of (Jesus) government and peace there shall be no end," Compare with,

Titus 2:13, "Looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great (mighty) God and our Savior Jesus Christ;" Verse 14, "Who gave himself for us," If you don't read anything into it, you will understand.

Titus 2:13 refers to two individuals, "the great God AND our savior Jesus Christ." That is not "reading anything into it."

The Messiah was called "mighty god" not because he was THE Almighty God, but a revered and powerful individual, which would be commonly called a "god" in the Greek and Hebrew understanding. "Mighty God" is "El Gibbohr." Jesus was El Gibbohr but never "El Shaddai," which means God Almighty.

"Everlasting father" would mean that Jesus is a life-giver, which a father is. He is the supreme life-giver for mankind, so he could be referred to as a father to us.

[Capbook]

If Jesus as "a god and not a true God to JWs", why you worship and serve Him?

So you believe Jesus is a true God?

Yes...

So you have no problem calling Jesus --> A < ----God ?





JW

How many TRUE GODs are there ? [Only True God explained]
viewtopic.php?p=1114357#p1114357

True Godship of Jesus is my main concern not the "a".
I know you worship Jesus, but Jesus said, "worship the Lord your God and serve Him only."
Why you would not answer the question;
Whose words you only obey? Jesus or the Father?

For mankind, there is one true God, he's called in the O.T. Jehovah, in the new, he is called Jesus. And whatever he does, or speaks, his blessings and judgments are all done to glorify his Father who is also known as Jehovah.

I don't know if you remember George Forman, he was the heavyweight boxing champion for three different decades. He has a family and has four sons. Their names are, George, George, George and George. My Father's name was Phillip, and my name is Phillip. If my mother wanted me, and my father and I were in the same room, she said, "Hay you" then I knew she wanted me. I cannot, for the life of me understand why it's so difficult for anyone to understand that the Son of God, who is the express image and likeness of his Father carries the same name as his father. It's a common practice worldwide and has been in all generations.

Do you mean that the Father in the OT is Jesus in the NT?

Isaiah 9:6, Unto the Jews, a son is given: "And the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting FATHER, the Prince of Peace."

Look at that verse and give it a lot of consideration. First of all, Isaiah was a Jew living under the law. If Isaiah had been lying about the Son of God being called God and Father, and the religious leaders thought he was worshipping another God or a god, or wrongly calling the Son Father, they would have stoned him to death. That was the law.

Isaiah was a prophet of God, the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 came to him from the LORD. Verse 10, The increase of (Jesus) government and peace there shall be no end," Compare with,

Titus 2:13, "Looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great (mighty) God and our Savior Jesus Christ;" Verse 14, "Who gave himself for us," If you don't read anything into it, you will understand.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:7 tells us who to look for, "waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ:"

One more time: Jesus is our God, Father, Saviour, Hope, Redeemer, Judge, and future Husband, ALL TO THE GLORY OF HIS FATHER. The bride of Christ will one day stand before Jesus' Father, who will welcome his Son and his bride with open arms.

Yes, if we also understand who Jesus is in the NT as "and God was the word" in John 1:1.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwell among us.

If you noticed two is being mentioned on verses below. The "word of the Lord" and Abram and Samuel addressed as the "LORD".
And in 1 Sam 3:21, the LORD appeared again in Shiloh and revealed Himself by "the word of the Lord".
It appears that there are two beings/person, the "LORD" the Tetragrammaton" and the "word of the Lord" as to me the one when the Father said, "let us make man in our image."

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Gen 15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
Gen 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness

1Sa 3:1 And the child Samuel ministered unto the LORD before Eli. And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.
1Sa 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.
1Sa 3:11 And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle

1Sa 3:21 And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD

If Jesus as "a god and not a true God to JWs", why you worship and serve Him?

So you believe Jesus is a true God?

Yes...

So you have no problem calling Jesus --> A < ----God ?





JW

How many TRUE GODs are there ? [Only True God explained]
viewtopic.php?p=1114357#p1114357

True Godship of Jesus is my main concern not the "a".
I know you worship Jesus, but Jesus said, "worship the Lord your God and serve Him only."
Why you would not answer the question;
Whose words you only obey? Jesus or the Father?

For mankind, there is one true God, he's called in the O.T. Jehovah, in the new, he is called Jesus. And whatever he does, or speaks, his blessings and judgments are all done to glorify his Father who is also known as Jehovah.

I don't know if you remember George Forman, he was the heavyweight boxing champion for three different decades. He has a family and has four sons. Their names are, George, George, George and George. My Father's name was Phillip, and my name is Phillip. If my mother wanted me, and my father and I were in the same room, she said, "Hay you" then I knew she wanted me. I cannot, for the life of me understand why it's so difficult for anyone to understand that the Son of God, who is the express image and likeness of his Father carries the same name as his father. It's a common practice worldwide and has been in all generations.

Do you mean that the Father in the OT is Jesus in the NT?

Isaiah 9:6, Unto the Jews, a son is given: "And the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting FATHER, the Prince of Peace."

Look at that verse and give it a lot of consideration. First of all, Isaiah was a Jew living under the law. If Isaiah had been lying about the Son of God being called God and Father, and the religious leaders thought he was worshipping another God or a god, or wrongly calling the Son Father, they would have stoned him to death. That was the law.

Isaiah was a prophet of God, the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 came to him from the LORD. Verse 10, The increase of (Jesus) government and peace there shall be no end," Compare with,

Titus 2:13, "Looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great (mighty) God and our Savior Jesus Christ;" Verse 14, "Who gave himself for us," If you don't read anything into it, you will understand.

Titus 2:13 refers to two individuals, "the great God AND our savior Jesus Christ." That is not "reading anything into it."

The Messiah was called "mighty god" not because he was THE Almighty God, but a revered and powerful individual, which would be commonly called a "god" in the Greek and Hebrew understanding. "Mighty God" is "El Gibbohr." Jesus was El Gibbohr but never "El Shaddai," which means God Almighty.

"Everlasting father" would mean that Jesus is a life-giver, which a father is. He is the supreme life-giver for mankind, so he could be referred to as a father to us.

I just wonder who does the "I" referred to on the verses below.
The context does not mention of two persons saying "I".

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star

[placebofactor]

Judas Iscariot was one of the twelve; a lover of money and a traitor. At the last supper, the Lord said, “One of you shall betray me;” after they ate, “Satan entered into him (Judas)” and the Lord then said to him, “That which you are to do, do it quickly.” So Judas forsook Jesus.

Joseph Caiaphas was the high priest of the Jews and served during Tiberius' rule and during the years of Jesus' public ministry, His condemnation, and crucifixion. Caiaphas was the son-in-law of Annas who had been a high priest by appointment of the Roman governor; he reigned from 7 A.D. to 14 A.D. and both men played a role in Jesus' conviction, punishment, and crucifixion.

And those common Jews, many who had witnessed the miracles of our Lord turned their backs on him; and at the cross, Matthew 27:39, the people “Wagging their heads, and said (to Jesus) you that (claim to) destroy the temple, and build it in three days, save yourself. If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross. Likewise, the chief priests mocked him, with the scribes and elders. They said to Jesus, He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he is the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.”

Mocked by the Roman guard; rejected by the Jewish authority; betrayed by Judas; denied by Peter; and in,

Matthew 26:56, we read “All the disciples forsook him, and fled.”
Jesus hung from the cross bruised and broken suspended between heaven and earth; betrayed and forsaken; and the Lord cried out to them all, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”

[Capbook]

Judas Iscariot was one of the twelve; a lover of money and a traitor. At the last supper, the Lord said, “One of you shall betray me;” after they ate, “Satan entered into him (Judas)” and the Lord then said to him, “That which you are to do, do it quickly.” So Judas forsook Jesus.

Joseph Caiaphas was the high priest of the Jews and served during Tiberius' rule and during the years of Jesus' public ministry, His condemnation, and crucifixion. Caiaphas was the son-in-law of Annas who had been a high priest by appointment of the Roman governor; he reigned from 7 A.D. to 14 A.D. and both men played a role in Jesus' conviction, punishment, and crucifixion.

And those common Jews, many who had witnessed the miracles of our Lord turned their backs on him; and at the cross, Matthew 27:39, the people “Wagging their heads, and said (to Jesus) you that (claim to) destroy the temple, and build it in three days, save yourself. If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross. Likewise, the chief priests mocked him, with the scribes and elders. They said to Jesus, He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he is the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.”

Mocked by the Roman guard; rejected by the Jewish authority; betrayed by Judas; denied by Peter; and in,

Matthew 26:56, we read “All the disciples forsook him, and fled.”
Jesus hung from the cross bruised and broken suspended between heaven and earth; betrayed and forsaken; and the Lord cried out to them all, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me - Thereby claiming God as his God; and yet lamenting his Father's withdrawing the tokens of his love, and treating him as sacrifice, while he bare our sins.

2Co 5:21 He made him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

[onewithhim]

If Jesus as "a god and not a true God to JWs", why you worship and serve Him?

So you believe Jesus is a true God?

Yes...

So you have no problem calling Jesus --> A < ----God ?





JW

How many TRUE GODs are there ? [Only True God explained]
viewtopic.php?p=1114357#p1114357

True Godship of Jesus is my main concern not the "a".
I know you worship Jesus, but Jesus said, "worship the Lord your God and serve Him only."
Why you would not answer the question;
Whose words you only obey? Jesus or the Father?

For mankind, there is one true God, he's called in the O.T. Jehovah, in the new, he is called Jesus. And whatever he does, or speaks, his blessings and judgments are all done to glorify his Father who is also known as Jehovah.

I don't know if you remember George Forman, he was the heavyweight boxing champion for three different decades. He has a family and has four sons. Their names are, George, George, George and George. My Father's name was Phillip, and my name is Phillip. If my mother wanted me, and my father and I were in the same room, she said, "Hay you" then I knew she wanted me. I cannot, for the life of me understand why it's so difficult for anyone to understand that the Son of God, who is the express image and likeness of his Father carries the same name as his father. It's a common practice worldwide and has been in all generations.

Do you mean that the Father in the OT is Jesus in the NT?

Isaiah 9:6, Unto the Jews, a son is given: "And the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting FATHER, the Prince of Peace."

Look at that verse and give it a lot of consideration. First of all, Isaiah was a Jew living under the law. If Isaiah had been lying about the Son of God being called God and Father, and the religious leaders thought he was worshipping another God or a god, or wrongly calling the Son Father, they would have stoned him to death. That was the law.

Isaiah was a prophet of God, the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 came to him from the LORD. Verse 10, The increase of (Jesus) government and peace there shall be no end," Compare with,

Titus 2:13, "Looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great (mighty) God and our Savior Jesus Christ;" Verse 14, "Who gave himself for us," If you don't read anything into it, you will understand.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:7 tells us who to look for, "waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ:"

One more time: Jesus is our God, Father, Saviour, Hope, Redeemer, Judge, and future Husband, ALL TO THE GLORY OF HIS FATHER. The bride of Christ will one day stand before Jesus' Father, who will welcome his Son and his bride with open arms.

Yes, if we also understand who Jesus is in the NT as "and God was the word" in John 1:1.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwell among us.

If you noticed two is being mentioned on verses below. The "word of the Lord" and Abram and Samuel addressed as the "LORD".
And in 1 Sam 3:21, the LORD appeared again in Shiloh and revealed Himself by "the word of the Lord".
It appears that there are two beings/person, the "LORD" the Tetragrammaton" and the "word of the Lord" as to me the one when the Father said, "let us make man in our image."

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Gen 15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
Gen 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness

1Sa 3:1 And the child Samuel ministered unto the LORD before Eli. And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.
1Sa 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.
1Sa 3:11 And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle

1Sa 3:21 And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD

So you believe Jesus is a true God?

Yes...

So you have no problem calling Jesus --> A < ----God ?





JW

How many TRUE GODs are there ? [Only True God explained]
viewtopic.php?p=1114357#p1114357

True Godship of Jesus is my main concern not the "a".
I know you worship Jesus, but Jesus said, "worship the Lord your God and serve Him only."
Why you would not answer the question;
Whose words you only obey? Jesus or the Father?

For mankind, there is one true God, he's called in the O.T. Jehovah, in the new, he is called Jesus. And whatever he does, or speaks, his blessings and judgments are all done to glorify his Father who is also known as Jehovah.

I don't know if you remember George Forman, he was the heavyweight boxing champion for three different decades. He has a family and has four sons. Their names are, George, George, George and George. My Father's name was Phillip, and my name is Phillip. If my mother wanted me, and my father and I were in the same room, she said, "Hay you" then I knew she wanted me. I cannot, for the life of me understand why it's so difficult for anyone to understand that the Son of God, who is the express image and likeness of his Father carries the same name as his father. It's a common practice worldwide and has been in all generations.

Do you mean that the Father in the OT is Jesus in the NT?

Isaiah 9:6, Unto the Jews, a son is given: "And the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting FATHER, the Prince of Peace."

Look at that verse and give it a lot of consideration. First of all, Isaiah was a Jew living under the law. If Isaiah had been lying about the Son of God being called God and Father, and the religious leaders thought he was worshipping another God or a god, or wrongly calling the Son Father, they would have stoned him to death. That was the law.

Isaiah was a prophet of God, the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 came to him from the LORD. Verse 10, The increase of (Jesus) government and peace there shall be no end," Compare with,

Titus 2:13, "Looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great (mighty) God and our Savior Jesus Christ;" Verse 14, "Who gave himself for us," If you don't read anything into it, you will understand.

Titus 2:13 refers to two individuals, "the great God AND our savior Jesus Christ." That is not "reading anything into it."

The Messiah was called "mighty god" not because he was THE Almighty God, but a revered and powerful individual, which would be commonly called a "god" in the Greek and Hebrew understanding. "Mighty God" is "El Gibbohr." Jesus was El Gibbohr but never "El Shaddai," which means God Almighty.

"Everlasting father" would mean that Jesus is a life-giver, which a father is. He is the supreme life-giver for mankind, so he could be referred to as a father to us.

I just wonder who does the "I" referred to on the verses below.
The context does not mention of two persons saying "I".

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star

There are two "I"s featured there. The Father has a say, and the Son also does. The Alpha and Omega verses refer to the Father (who sent this Revelation to Jesus). He has more to say than Jesus does in this book of Revelation.

[Capbook]

If Jesus as "a god and not a true God to JWs", why you worship and serve Him?

So you believe Jesus is a true God?

Yes...

So you have no problem calling Jesus --> A < ----God ?





JW

How many TRUE GODs are there ? [Only True God explained]
viewtopic.php?p=1114357#p1114357

True Godship of Jesus is my main concern not the "a".
I know you worship Jesus, but Jesus said, "worship the Lord your God and serve Him only."
Why you would not answer the question;
Whose words you only obey? Jesus or the Father?

For mankind, there is one true God, he's called in the O.T. Jehovah, in the new, he is called Jesus. And whatever he does, or speaks, his blessings and judgments are all done to glorify his Father who is also known as Jehovah.

I don't know if you remember George Forman, he was the heavyweight boxing champion for three different decades. He has a family and has four sons. Their names are, George, George, George and George. My Father's name was Phillip, and my name is Phillip. If my mother wanted me, and my father and I were in the same room, she said, "Hay you" then I knew she wanted me. I cannot, for the life of me understand why it's so difficult for anyone to understand that the Son of God, who is the express image and likeness of his Father carries the same name as his father. It's a common practice worldwide and has been in all generations.

Do you mean that the Father in the OT is Jesus in the NT?

Isaiah 9:6, Unto the Jews, a son is given: "And the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting FATHER, the Prince of Peace."

Look at that verse and give it a lot of consideration. First of all, Isaiah was a Jew living under the law. If Isaiah had been lying about the Son of God being called God and Father, and the religious leaders thought he was worshipping another God or a god, or wrongly calling the Son Father, they would have stoned him to death. That was the law.

Isaiah was a prophet of God, the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 came to him from the LORD. Verse 10, The increase of (Jesus) government and peace there shall be no end," Compare with,

Titus 2:13, "Looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great (mighty) God and our Savior Jesus Christ;" Verse 14, "Who gave himself for us," If you don't read anything into it, you will understand.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:7 tells us who to look for, "waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ:"

One more time: Jesus is our God, Father, Saviour, Hope, Redeemer, Judge, and future Husband, ALL TO THE GLORY OF HIS FATHER. The bride of Christ will one day stand before Jesus' Father, who will welcome his Son and his bride with open arms.

Yes, if we also understand who Jesus is in the NT as "and God was the word" in John 1:1.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwell among us.

If you noticed two is being mentioned on verses below. The "word of the Lord" and Abram and Samuel addressed as the "LORD".
And in 1 Sam 3:21, the LORD appeared again in Shiloh and revealed Himself by "the word of the Lord".
It appears that there are two beings/person, the "LORD" the Tetragrammaton" and the "word of the Lord" as to me the one when the Father said, "let us make man in our image."

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Gen 15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
Gen 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness

1Sa 3:1 And the child Samuel ministered unto the LORD before Eli. And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.
1Sa 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.
1Sa 3:11 And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle

1Sa 3:21 And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD

So you believe Jesus is a true God?

Yes...

So you have no problem calling Jesus --> A < ----God ?





JW

How many TRUE GODs are there ? [Only True God explained]
viewtopic.php?p=1114357#p1114357

True Godship of Jesus is my main concern not the "a".
I know you worship Jesus, but Jesus said, "worship the Lord your God and serve Him only."
Why you would not answer the question;
Whose words you only obey? Jesus or the Father?

For mankind, there is one true God, he's called in the O.T. Jehovah, in the new, he is called Jesus. And whatever he does, or speaks, his blessings and judgments are all done to glorify his Father who is also known as Jehovah.

I don't know if you remember George Forman, he was the heavyweight boxing champion for three different decades. He has a family and has four sons. Their names are, George, George, George and George. My Father's name was Phillip, and my name is Phillip. If my mother wanted me, and my father and I were in the same room, she said, "Hay you" then I knew she wanted me. I cannot, for the life of me understand why it's so difficult for anyone to understand that the Son of God, who is the express image and likeness of his Father carries the same name as his father. It's a common practice worldwide and has been in all generations.

Do you mean that the Father in the OT is Jesus in the NT?

Isaiah 9:6, Unto the Jews, a son is given: "And the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting FATHER, the Prince of Peace."

Look at that verse and give it a lot of consideration. First of all, Isaiah was a Jew living under the law. If Isaiah had been lying about the Son of God being called God and Father, and the religious leaders thought he was worshipping another God or a god, or wrongly calling the Son Father, they would have stoned him to death. That was the law.

Isaiah was a prophet of God, the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 came to him from the LORD. Verse 10, The increase of (Jesus) government and peace there shall be no end," Compare with,

Titus 2:13, "Looking for the blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great (mighty) God and our Savior Jesus Christ;" Verse 14, "Who gave himself for us," If you don't read anything into it, you will understand.

Titus 2:13 refers to two individuals, "the great God AND our savior Jesus Christ." That is not "reading anything into it."

The Messiah was called "mighty god" not because he was THE Almighty God, but a revered and powerful individual, which would be commonly called a "god" in the Greek and Hebrew understanding. "Mighty God" is "El Gibbohr." Jesus was El Gibbohr but never "El Shaddai," which means God Almighty.

"Everlasting father" would mean that Jesus is a life-giver, which a father is. He is the supreme life-giver for mankind, so he could be referred to as a father to us.

I just wonder who does the "I" referred to on the verses below.
The context does not mention of two persons saying "I".

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star

onewithhim says; There are two "I"s featured there. The Father has a say, and the Son also does. The Alpha and Omega verses refer to the Father (who sent this Revelation to Jesus). He has more to say than Jesus does in this book of Revelation.



Yes, the Father gave Jesus to reveal concerning things before unknown.
And I cannot see in context that though revelation was already given to Jesus, the Father also revealed about Himself to apostle John.
One of the "I", mentioned Jesus and no one other in the two verses.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw

[placebofactor]

[Replying to Capbook in post #47]

Issues to consider when making a determination as to whether Jesus was speaking to those standing before him, or to his Father. I will post my answers.

1. Is Jesus God? Yes.

2. If you believe Jesus is God, can He never NOT be God? In other words, can He ever change even for a second? No.

3. Did the Father send His Son? Yes.

4. Did Jesus of His own free will leave heaven, come to earth, and take on the form of a man, in order to finish His Father’s work? Yes.

5. Did Jesus know of His pending death on the cross? Yes.

6. Was Christ’s death prophesied in the O.T? Yes.

7. Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed? No.

8. Was Jesus both the son of man, and the Son of God? Yes.

9. Has Jesus ever changed, or will He ever change? No.

10. Did the apostles forsake (abandon) Him? Yes.

11. Did the Jewish people forsake Him? Yes.

12. Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him? Yes.

13. Did the Roman leaders, both political and military forsake Him? Yes.

14. When Jesus went to the cross, how many people went to suffer and die with Him? None.

15. Who was it that raised the Lord from the grave? John 16:17-18, Jesus said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again."

17. Was there any other way for men to be forgiven of their sins if Jesus did not go to the cross? No.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to Capbook in post #47]

Issues to consider when making a determination as to whether Jesus was speaking to those standing before him, or to his Father.

Its ludicrous to suggest Jesus referred to the people around him as his God even more that he was speaking to us (why would Jesus call his modern day followers and /or unbelievers his "God"!?) . Jesus obviously was not calling on himself his God , so the only reasonable conclusion is that Jesus was calling on his Father Jehovah.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to Capbook in post #47]

Issues to consider when making a determination as to whether Jesus was speaking to those standing before him, or to his Father.

Its ludicrous to suggest Jesus referred to the people around him as his God even more that he was speaking to us (who would Jesus call his modern day followers and /or unbelievers his "God"!?) . Jesus obviously was not calling on himself his God , so the only reasonable conclusion is that Jesus was calling on his Father Jehovah.

According to Witnesses, because they claim Jesus said to his Father, "Why have you forsaken me?" And because his Father sent his beloved Son on this mission of death, and Jesus came of his own free will, why should anyone trust Jesus or his Father not to abandon us? Were only mortals. If the Father abandoned his Son, why should I trust him not to abandon you, me, and everyone else?