My, God, my God, why?

[placebofactor]

The following will likely open a can of worms. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but understood by the authority of the Holy Spirit. Before you answer, consider all the details that led up to this moment.

It concerns Matthew 27:46. We find Jesus hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of Jews, Gentiles, and religious leaders who hated him. These were people he taught, healed, and fed. Before he died, he made two statements. The first,

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” The word forsaken means to abandon completely, to turn one’s back on someone, and walk away.

His last words are found in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.” Then his spirit left him.

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

[onewithhim]

The following will likely open a can of worms. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but understood by the authority of the Holy Spirit. Before you answer, consider all the details that led up to this moment.

It concerns Matthew 27:46. We find Jesus hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of Jews, Gentiles, and religious leaders who hated him. These were people he taught, healed, and fed. Before he died, he made two statements. The first,

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” The word forsaken means to abandon completely, to turn one’s back on someone, and walk away.

His last words are found in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.” Then his spirit left him.

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

When he said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" he was speaking to his Father, God. In the amount of pain that he was in---almost unbearable---you can understand that he might have said anything in his agonizing. As he suffered in agony he could have felt that he was totally abandoned, for the moment. And he was, for just that small time period, so that he could die and fulfill the will of God.

[Difflugia]

Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him?

He wasn't speaking to God or those around him, but to us.

Mark's narrative of Jesus' final moments begins with the quotation from Psalm 22:1. As repeatedly happens in Mark's Gospel, the characters in the Gospel story that are hearing and witnessing Jesus don't get it, but the readers and hearers of that story do. Those surrounding Jesus are clueless. They're so stupid that they don't even recognize the line from the Psalm, but think that Jesus is calling Elijah. We know the Psalm, though, and also that when Jesus utters his final cry, it's to be delivered as promised in Psalm 22:5, as happened to "our fathers" that trusted in God as Jesus did.

Matthew's problem with Mark, as always, was that Mark's references to prophecy are too subtle. While Matthew keeps the same scene with the same stupid bystanders that think that Jesus is calling out to Elijah, he makes a minor change to the description of Jesus' final cry. By using the same verb "to cry out," κράζω, as the translator of the Septuagint's version of Psalm 22:5, there's no ambiguity. Readers and Hearers of Matthew's Gospel have no excuse for not making the connection.

Luke liked the overall theme of Jesus recalling a Psalm at his death that promises salvation, but Luke's Jesus is in control at all times and doesn't simply cry out. He uses a loud voice with nearly identical wording to Mark, but instead of yelling in even apparent desperation, he loudly commits his spirit to God as the psalmist does in Psalm 31:5, after which Yahweh redeems him. In constrast to Mark's and Matthew's clueless bystanders, Luke's message is the crowds do get it; Jesus was innocent. Luke has the centurion tell us of his innocence instead of, as Mark's centurion does, that he's the Son of God. Luke's message isn't just for the select few reading his Gospel, as Mark's is, but for all with the understanding to heed Jesus' message, Romans and Judaeans alike.

[placebofactor]

The following will likely open a can of worms. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but understood by the authority of the Holy Spirit. Before you answer, consider all the details that led up to this moment.

It concerns Matthew 27:46. We find Jesus hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of Jews, Gentiles, and religious leaders who hated him. These were people he taught, healed, and fed. Before he died, he made two statements. The first,

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” The word forsaken means to abandon completely, to turn one’s back on someone, and walk away.

His last words are found in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.” Then his spirit left him.

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

When he said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" he was speaking to his Father, God. In the amount of pain that he was in---almost unbearable---you can understand that he might have said anything in his agonizing. As he suffered in agony he could have felt that he was totally abandoned, for the moment. And he was, for just that small time period, so that he could die and fulfill the will of God.

So, what you're saying is he was out of his mind with pain. Hmmm! Before he said My God, My God, Jesus saw John with his mother and said, "Woman behold they son! then said, Behold thy mother!

Then he said, "I thirst." He looks at the man on the cross next to him and says, "Today shall you be with me in paradise." He then looked down at the crowd and said, "My God, My God." then coherently said, "Father into thy hands I commend my spirit:" None of his words sounded to me like a man out of his mind with pain. Every word he spoke had a definite meaning and direction. He was aware of his needs (thirst) and understood the request of the thief, then answered him.

Matthew said, "He yielded up the ghost." Jesus' soul separated from his body, his body was to be buried in a tomb, and his spirit went to be with his Father. The resurrection brought the two together and Jesus became a living soul, incorruptible and immortal, the first born of the dead.

[onewithhim]

The following will likely open a can of worms. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but understood by the authority of the Holy Spirit. Before you answer, consider all the details that led up to this moment.

It concerns Matthew 27:46. We find Jesus hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of Jews, Gentiles, and religious leaders who hated him. These were people he taught, healed, and fed. Before he died, he made two statements. The first,

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” The word forsaken means to abandon completely, to turn one’s back on someone, and walk away.

His last words are found in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.” Then his spirit left him.

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

When he said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" he was speaking to his Father, God. In the amount of pain that he was in---almost unbearable---you can understand that he might have said anything in his agonizing. As he suffered in agony he could have felt that he was totally abandoned, for the moment. And he was, for just that small time period, so that he could die and fulfill the will of God.

So, what you're saying is he was out of his mind with pain. Hmmm! Before he said My God, My God, Jesus saw John with his mother and said, "Woman behold they son! then said, Behold thy mother!

Then he said, "I thirst." He looks at the man on the cross next to him and says, "Today shall you be with me in paradise." He then looked down at the crowd and said, "My God, My God." then coherently said, "Father into thy hands I commend my spirit:" None of his words sounded to me like a man out of his mind with pain. Every word he spoke had a definite meaning and direction. He was aware of his needs (thirst) and understood the request of the thief, then answered him.

Matthew said, "He yielded up the ghost." Jesus' soul separated from his body, his body was to be buried in a tomb, and his spirit went to be with his Father. The resurrection brought the two together and Jesus became a living soul, incorruptible and immortal, the first born of the dead.

I imagine Jesus was almost out of his mind with pain, but you are right that he was cognizant of his mother and John there, etc . But why would he say to his Father "why have you forsaken me"? That's up for continued debate, if anyone else wants to share their thoughts on the subject.

You say that Jesus' soul "separated from his body." How can that be when Jesus IS a soul, he doesn't HAVE one. Adam was made "a living soul," he wasn't given one. A soul is the complete human or animal. Yes, animals are also souls. Do some research or ask your relatives what souls are. It's not something that separates from your body, because the soul is YOU. There are alive souls and dead souls. Now, the spirit is simply God's force that keeps people and animals alive. When someone dies, the spirit returns to God in the sense that He has withdrawn his Spirit from the individual so that the individual dies.

"For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other, yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20 KJV)

And Jesus couldn't have said that the thief would be in Paradise with him that day. Jesus was dead for three days and after that was resurrected and appeared to his disciples. Then another 40 days or so he appeared to many. He actually said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise." The comma means alot.

[JehovahsWitness]

WHY DID JESUS ASK GOD WHY HE HAD FORSAKEN HIM?

Jesus certainly knew the words were part of the Messianic Psalms but I don't think it was a cold calculated expression, just to say what was expected of him. Those words surely came from the heart. Those of us that love scripture, have all sponaneoisly quoted a passage that perfectly reflects our feelings at a given time. Jesus must have known his words fulfilled scripture but prophecies are in effect God recording before the fact, not just what the Messiah would do and say but also how he (the Messiah) would feel



The Watchtower of April 2021 (article #15) notes the following. ...

"The Bible does not explain why Jesus said this. Consider, though, what those words tell us. For one thing, by saying these words, Jesus was fulfilling the prophecy found at Psalm 22:1.b Furthermore, the words made it clear that Jehovah was not keeping “a protective hedge around” his Son. (Job 1:10)"

They say on the battlefield, dying men, despite their age, will still cry for their mothers. Jesus had never been without Jehovah's protection, but to settled once and for all the universal issue, Jehovah had to totally seperate from his son. For the first time in his existence Jesus was totally alone and as the full impact of the sins of the world weighed down on him, the demons, petty as they are, must have wreaked sadistic vengence on his broken body. It was a heartwrenching scene for sure, and understandably , as death closed in on him, Jesus cried out for his PAPA. For one time, (and one time only) Jehovah did not respond.

Can a person feel abandoned ("forsaken") by someone yet at the same time still trust them?

That he still trusted the one he cried for is evident by his last words "Into your hands I entrust my spirit" he was effectively saying "wherever you are, whatever you are doing, I know you will find me.

CONCLUSION Jesus for a moment felt totally abandoned by his Father and voiced his anguish. He still trusted that one would not leave him forever, that the separation would be temporary and he never lost His full confidence his future prospect for life was in good hands

[placebofactor]

WHY DID JESUS ASK GOD WHY HE HAD FORSAKEN HIM?

Jesus certainly knew the words were part of the Messianic Psalms but I don't think it was a cold calculated expression, just to say what was expected of him. Those words surely came from the heart. Those of us that love scripture, have all sponaneoisly quoted a passage that perfectly reflects our feelings at a given time. Jesus must have known his words fulfilled scripture but prophecies are in effect God recording before the fact, not just what the Messiah would do and say but also how he (the Messiah) would feel



The Watchtower of April 2021 (article #15) notes the following. ...

"The Bible does not explain why Jesus said this. Consider, though, what those words tell us. For one thing, by saying these words, Jesus was fulfilling the prophecy found at Psalm 22:1.b Furthermore, the words made it clear that Jehovah was not keeping “a protective hedge around” his Son. (Job 1:10)"

They say on the battlefield, dying men, despite their age, will still cry for their mothers. Jesus had never been without Jehovah's protection, but to settled once and for all the universal issue, Jehovah had to totally seperate from his son. For the first time in his existence Jesus was totally alone and as the full impact of the sins of the world weighed down on him, the demons, petty as they are, must have wreaked sadistic vengence on his broken body. It was a heartwrenching scene for sure, and understandably , as death closed in on him, Jesus cried out for his PAPA. For one time, (and one time only) Jehovah did not respond.

Can a person feel abandoned ("forsaken") by someone yet at the same time still trust them?

That he still trusted the one he cried for is evident by his last words "Into your hands I entrust my spirit" he was effectively saying "wherever you are, whatever you are doing, I know you will find me.

CONCLUSION Jesus for a moment felt totally abandoned by his Father and voiced his anguish. He still trusted that one would not leave him forever, that the separation would be temporary and he never lost His full confidence his future prospect for life was in good hands

I don't have any idea where you get these ideas from. Your examples are ridiculous. Soldiers crying to their mother, you watch too many movies. Have you ever been on a battlefield? I have! You say the Father abandoned his Son, then why should anyone trust Jesus, "Like Fater like Son." His words were sane before he Cried out, "My God, and his words were sane after he cried out. One thing I have noticed about you since I've been on this forum, is "You're never wrong." You're so full of yourself, that I doubt you ever had an original thought. No sense in discussing anything with you, you never build on a conversation, all you do is torture every post unless it's from one of your friends. You're depressing most of the time, and annoying the rest of the time.

[otseng]

You're so full of yourself, that I doubt you ever had an original thought. No sense in discussing anything with you, you never build on a conversation, all you do is torture every post unless it's from one of your friends. You're depressing most of the time, and annoying the rest of the time.

Moderator Comment

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[JehovahsWitness]

... You say the Father abandoned his Son

Where did I say that? I did not say that.


JW

[placebofactor]

You're so full of yourself, that I doubt you ever had an original thought. No sense in discussing anything with you, you never build on a conversation, all you do is torture every post unless it's from one of your friends. You're depressing most of the time, and annoying the rest of the time.

Moderator Comment

Please do not make personal comments about others on this forum.

To the moderators: I was under the impression this was a Christian forum. Jehovah's Witnesses have been and continue to be called a cult by every Christian community I know of. 90% of Christians won't even open the door for them when they come knocking. I've tried to be polite to them in my posts, but they continually post negative comments and distort scriptures with their corrupt Bible. They will influence and confuse new Christians that come on to your forum, with their, "Jesus is not God, but a god." There is no Holy Spirit, it is the breath of the Father. There is no Trinity, there is no Hell, they are the 144,000, and on and on it goes. Yes, this is a debate and discussion forum, but they have made it a platform for their brand of faith. According to their own rules, they are not to have anything to do with us, or with anyone who is not Witnesses. They offend and anger others, but cry when they get offended. How do you think I feel when they post negative comments on every one of my new posts? That's my take.

This is not a game were playing, eternities at stake. The cults corrupt people with their corrupt teaching and corrupt Bibles. We are told to, "Put on the whole armor of God, that we may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil (and his disciples). For we (Christians) wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

1 Corinthians 5:6, "A little leaven will leaven the whole lump." Translated, if corruption remains among us, and is not censured, there is a chance the floodgates will be opened corrupting the newbies, and the weak.

Please review the Rules.





______________



Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.