You Don't Need to Believe in the Trinity to be Saved?

[2timothy316]

"Correct view" you say. Clear this up for me. You mean one must believe in the basic belief of the trinity to be saved right?

No, I’m saying the complete opposite. I’m explicitly saying one doesn’t have to have the correct/true view of God’s nature (trinitarian or not) to be saved. I’m saying one can be wrong about the trinity and still be saved.

Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

[Capbook]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.
My God when He speaks, it is done.(Psa 33:9)
When my God said, let there be light, and there was light.(Gen1:3)
Does a force feels grief? (Eph 4:30)
The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

How is it "done"? What is the Father's or the Son's power? Are they powerless alone? Does the Holy Spirit hold all the power for "God"?

They have power.
My God when He speaks, it is done. He doesn't need a wheelbarrow. (Psa 33:9)
And God commune with someone who could produce. Let us make man in our image. (Gen 1:26)
Lexicon define "let us make" find below, one is to produce.

OT:6213 `asah —
1) to do, to fashion, to accomplish, to make
a) (Qal)
1) to do, to work, to make, to produce
a) to do
b) to work
c) to deal (with)
d) to act, to act with effect, to effect
2) to make
a) to make
b) to produce
c) to prepare
d) to make (an offering)
e) to attend to, to put in order
f) to observe, to celebrate
g) to acquire (property)
h) to appoint, to ordain, to institute
i) to bring about
j) to use
k) to spend, to pass
b) (Niphal)
1) to be done
2) to be made
(from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, Copyright © 1993, Woodside Bible Fellowship, Ontario, Canada. Licensed from the Institute for Creation Research.)

[onewithhim]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

It can when it is God's thoughts! The HS is sent forth to do what God wants done. (Can a Person be divided and sit on 120 people's shoulders? Can a Person split itself up into millions of pieces to influence people all over the earth? The answer is a resounding no.)

[Capbook]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

It can when it is God's thoughts! The HS is sent forth to do what God wants done. (Can a Person be divided and sit on 120 people's shoulders? Can a Person split itself up into millions of pieces to influence people all over the earth? The answer is a resounding no.)

When God speaks, it is done. May I know what role does the HS done here? (Psa 33:9)

[onewithhim]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

It can when it is God's thoughts! The HS is sent forth to do what God wants done. (Can a Person be divided and sit on 120 people's shoulders? Can a Person split itself up into millions of pieces to influence people all over the earth? The answer is a resounding no.)

When God speaks, it is done. May I know what role does the HS done here? (Psa 33:9)

It is done by means of Holy Spirit. It's almost like God's breath. He speaks and the Holy Spirit goes forth from Him like His breath. It is a force, not a person.

[Capbook]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

It can when it is God's thoughts! The HS is sent forth to do what God wants done. (Can a Person be divided and sit on 120 people's shoulders? Can a Person split itself up into millions of pieces to influence people all over the earth? The answer is a resounding no.)

When God speaks, it is done. May I know what role does the HS done here? (Psa 33:9)

It is done by means of Holy Spirit. It's almost like God's breath. He speaks and the Holy Spirit goes forth from Him like His breath. It is a force, not a person.

Can a force grieved? (Eph 4:30)
Maybe you can post a lexicon that define the Holy Spirit as force. To settle this once and for all.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Capbook in post #101]

You didn't answer the question, but I didn't expect an answer TBH.
"They have power" isn't an answer. I want to know what is the source of their power.

I'll put it in a way that you'll understand. I move my arm by using muscles. What is the source of the Father's or Son's power? It isn't muscle, so what is it?

[onewithhim]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

It can when it is God's thoughts! The HS is sent forth to do what God wants done. (Can a Person be divided and sit on 120 people's shoulders? Can a Person split itself up into millions of pieces to influence people all over the earth? The answer is a resounding no.)

When God speaks, it is done. May I know what role does the HS done here? (Psa 33:9)

It is done by means of Holy Spirit. It's almost like God's breath. He speaks and the Holy Spirit goes forth from Him like His breath. It is a force, not a person.

Can a force grieved? (Eph 4:30)
Maybe you can post a lexicon that define the Holy Spirit as force. To settle this once and for all.

You can settle it by thinking for yourself. The HS can be grieved because Jehovah is grieved. Also, a Person cannot be divided up 120 ways and appear on peoples' shoulders, as in the upper room. Think!

[Capbook]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

It can when it is God's thoughts! The HS is sent forth to do what God wants done. (Can a Person be divided and sit on 120 people's shoulders? Can a Person split itself up into millions of pieces to influence people all over the earth? The answer is a resounding no.)

When God speaks, it is done. May I know what role does the HS done here? (Psa 33:9)

It is done by means of Holy Spirit. It's almost like God's breath. He speaks and the Holy Spirit goes forth from Him like His breath. It is a force, not a person.

Can a force grieved? (Eph 4:30)
Maybe you can post a lexicon that define the Holy Spirit as force. To settle this once and for all.

You can settle it by thinking for yourself. The HS can be grieved because Jehovah is grieved. Also, a Person cannot be divided up 120 ways and appear on peoples' shoulders, as in the upper room. Think!

You are just under estimating the power of HS. (Acts 2:4)
As you will not give lexicon definition of HS during the time of its usage.
I'll give you one; (
1. (holy) of persons whose services God employs,
2. (Spirit) or divine God.

Acts 2:4
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

NT:40 hagios, hagia, hagion
1. properly reverend, worthy of veneration: Luke 1:49
a. used of things which on account of some connection with God possess a certain distinction and claim to reverence, as places sacred to God which are not to be profaned, Acts 7:33;
b. of persons whose services God employs
2. set apart for God, to be, as it were, exclusively his; followed by a genitive or a dative: Luke 2:23
3. of sacrifices and offerings; prepared for God with solemn rite, pure, clean
4. in a moral sense, pure, sinless, upright, holy: 1 Peter 1:16
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database)

NT:4151 pneuma (pnyoo'-mah); from NT:4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:

KJV - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare NT:5590.
(New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. )

[onewithhim]

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

It can when it is God's thoughts! The HS is sent forth to do what God wants done. (Can a Person be divided and sit on 120 people's shoulders? Can a Person split itself up into millions of pieces to influence people all over the earth? The answer is a resounding no.)

When God speaks, it is done. May I know what role does the HS done here? (Psa 33:9)

It is done by means of Holy Spirit. It's almost like God's breath. He speaks and the Holy Spirit goes forth from Him like His breath. It is a force, not a person.

Can a force grieved? (Eph 4:30)
Maybe you can post a lexicon that define the Holy Spirit as force. To settle this once and for all.

You can settle it by thinking for yourself. The HS can be grieved because Jehovah is grieved. Also, a Person cannot be divided up 120 ways and appear on peoples' shoulders, as in the upper room. Think!

You are just under estimating the power of HS. (Acts 2:4)
As you will not give lexicon definition of HS during the time of its usage.
I'll give you one; (
1. (holy) of persons whose services God employs,
2. (Spirit) or divine God.

Acts 2:4
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

NT:40 hagios, hagia, hagion
1. properly reverend, worthy of veneration: Luke 1:49
a. used of things which on account of some connection with God possess a certain distinction and claim to reverence, as places sacred to God which are not to be profaned, Acts 7:33;
b. of persons whose services God employs
2. set apart for God, to be, as it were, exclusively his; followed by a genitive or a dative: Luke 2:23
3. of sacrifices and offerings; prepared for God with solemn rite, pure, clean
4. in a moral sense, pure, sinless, upright, holy: 1 Peter 1:16
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database)

NT:4151 pneuma (pnyoo'-mah); from NT:4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:

KJV - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare NT:5590.
(New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. )

You're just quoting a lot of lexicons and so-called Bible scholars (who are all biased). You are not reasoning on the scriptures themselves. You can't seem capable of thinking for yourself.

[Capbook]

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

It can when it is God's thoughts! The HS is sent forth to do what God wants done. (Can a Person be divided and sit on 120 people's shoulders? Can a Person split itself up into millions of pieces to influence people all over the earth? The answer is a resounding no.)

When God speaks, it is done. May I know what role does the HS done here? (Psa 33:9)

It is done by means of Holy Spirit. It's almost like God's breath. He speaks and the Holy Spirit goes forth from Him like His breath. It is a force, not a person.

Can a force grieved? (Eph 4:30)
Maybe you can post a lexicon that define the Holy Spirit as force. To settle this once and for all.

You can settle it by thinking for yourself. The HS can be grieved because Jehovah is grieved. Also, a Person cannot be divided up 120 ways and appear on peoples' shoulders, as in the upper room. Think!

You are just under estimating the power of HS. (Acts 2:4)
As you will not give lexicon definition of HS during the time of its usage.
I'll give you one; (
1. (holy) of persons whose services God employs,
2. (Spirit) or divine God.

Acts 2:4
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

NT:40 hagios, hagia, hagion
1. properly reverend, worthy of veneration: Luke 1:49
a. used of things which on account of some connection with God possess a certain distinction and claim to reverence, as places sacred to God which are not to be profaned, Acts 7:33;
b. of persons whose services God employs
2. set apart for God, to be, as it were, exclusively his; followed by a genitive or a dative: Luke 2:23
3. of sacrifices and offerings; prepared for God with solemn rite, pure, clean
4. in a moral sense, pure, sinless, upright, holy: 1 Peter 1:16
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database)

NT:4151 pneuma (pnyoo'-mah); from NT:4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:

KJV - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare NT:5590.
(New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. )

You're just quoting a lot of lexicons and so-called Bible scholars (who are all biased). You are not reasoning on the scriptures themselves. You can't seem capable of thinking for yourself.

Lexicographers have higher credentials to define Bible word at the time of its usage.
If you interpret Bible words without consulting lexicons you will be misguided, just like "earth' as human society.
I am not fond of adding my own interpretation as it would be a man's contribution and not of God then.
Bible text interpreted by Bible text is safe from eisegesis.
The meaning of EISEGESIS is the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas.