You Don't Need to Believe in the Trinity to be Saved?

[2timothy316]

"Correct view" you say. Clear this up for me. You mean one must believe in the basic belief of the trinity to be saved right?

No, I’m saying the complete opposite. I’m explicitly saying one doesn’t have to have the correct/true view of God’s nature (trinitarian or not) to be saved. I’m saying one can be wrong about the trinity and still be saved.

Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

[Capbook]

It's the Holy Spirit that said to separate the two for His work.

Yes and if we let the bible interpret the bible we need to turn to Peter to explain how the holy spirit speaks (whether it is "speaking" prophecy or it is "speaking" directives). When we read Peter's explanation we see how the holy spirit "speaks".

Then how the Holy Spirit speak in Acts 13:2?
Lexicon define, "said" as to say, to tell, to ask, to command, that what I understand on that verse. No prophecy.

NT:2036 epoo, to say, to speak, to tell, to call, to name, to ask, to command, etc.;
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. )

[JehovahsWitness]

Then how the Holy Spirit speak in Acts 13:2?

The same way as Peter explained in prophecy in 1 PETER ( see post #78 -> viewtopic.php?p=1154948#p1154948 )

[onewithhim]

It's the Holy Spirit that said to separate the two for His work.

Yes and if we let the bible interpret the bible we need to turn to Peter to explain how the holy spirit speaks (whether it is "speaking" prophecy or it is "speaking" directives). When we read Peter's explanation we see how the holy spirit "speaks".

Then how the Holy Spirit speak in Acts 13:2?
Lexicon define, "said" as to say, to tell, to ask, to command, that what I understand on that verse. No prophecy.

NT:2036 epoo, to say, to speak, to tell, to call, to name, to ask, to command, etc.;
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. )

The Holy Spirit is Jehovah's Force to get done things that God wants to get done. This Force says what Jehovah is saying. Jehovah is the Source of anything the Holy Spirit does.

[2timothy316]

It's the Holy Spirit that said to separate the two for His work.

Yes and if we let the bible interpret the bible we need to turn to Peter to explain how the holy spirit speaks (whether it is "speaking" prophecy or it is "speaking" directives). When we read Peter's explanation we see how the holy spirit "speaks".

Then how the Holy Spirit speak in Acts 13:2?
Lexicon define, "said" as to say, to tell, to ask, to command, that what I understand on that verse. No prophecy.

NT:2036 epoo, to say, to speak, to tell, to call, to name, to ask, to command, etc.;
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. )

The Holy Spirit is Jehovah's Force to get done things that God wants to get done. This Force says what Jehovah is saying. Jehovah is the Source of anything the Holy Spirit does.

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

[JehovahsWitness]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

[2timothy316]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

LOL@ quaternity!
Clearly it is the Holy Spirit that wears the pants in the trinity, seeing how it's the one that does everything.

[Capbook]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.
My God when He speaks, it is done.(Psa 33:9)
When my God said, let there be light, and there was light.(Gen1:3)
Does a force feels grief? (Eph 4:30)
The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

NT:5241
(perentugxa/nw
to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else - 'to intercede on behalf of, to intercede for.'
to\ pneu=ma u(perentugxa/nei stenagmoi=$ a)lalh/toi$
'the Spirit intercedes with groans that cannot be expressed in words' Rom 8:26
(Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain)

Rom 8:26
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
KJV

Ps 33:9
9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
KJV

Gen 1:3
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
KJV

Eph 4:30
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
KJV

[onewithhim]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

[2timothy316]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.
My God when He speaks, it is done.(Psa 33:9)
When my God said, let there be light, and there was light.(Gen1:3)
Does a force feels grief? (Eph 4:30)
The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)

How is it "done"? What is the Father's or the Son's power? Are they powerless alone? Does the Holy Spirit hold all the power for "God"?

[Capbook]

It also begs the question, if Holy Spirit isn't His active force, then how does Jehovah get things done? Bare hands? Did he make the earth using a wheelbarrow? Can He not use it to vibrate the air to make sounds that make words? Does God have a mouth like ours? Can he only speak from from His mouth? What is Almighty God's power called? If its not called His Spirit.

True, I'd never really thought about it that way, but what is God's power if it's not his spirit... Still I don't think that trinitarians will delve that deeply, and if they did they'd probably just come up with a 4th member of the trinity ... a quaternity (I thought I'd just invented a word until I looked it up and discovered it already exists.

There goes the knighthood.

I wonder why your god needs a helping hand.

He doesn't need a "helping hand." The Holy Spirit is directly from Him, and just means His power and force, the way He gets things done. It's not something separate from Him.

The Spirit itself makes intercession for us. Lexicon define "maketh intercession" as to intercede on behalf of someone, with specific emphasis upon the fact that what is being done is for the sake of someone else
Can a force make specific emphasis? (Rom 8:26)