Lake of fire

[achilles12604]

Question for everyone. The lake of fire referred to by the traditional Christian/ Catholic/ Fundi churches.

Is it literally a lake of fire? It is figurative? Other?

[JehovahsWitness]

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do MORTIFY (kill) the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Rom 8:13 )

One has to recognise the difference between the literal and the figurative in order to have a correct understanding of scripture.

Scripture does speak of figuartively of the "death /killing "of out sinful nature /old personality meaning Christians must be dominated by godly goals and principles to please God and struggle against canal (fleshly) desires.


This is not to be confused with literal death which is the cessation of all life, (the literal non-existence of a person). This literal death requires a resurrection (recreation) by God which is not controlled or directed by the individual himself (nobody can bring themselves back from the dead).

The incorrigibly wicked , face permanently literal death (destruction) with no prospect to future life. This is what Jesus was speaking about when he contrasted this with being saved in John 3:16. There is nowhere in scripture that incorporates [ literal ]destruction of a person by God as a part of salvation.

The "process" of stripping of ones old personality or being baptised into "death" is metaphoric language to explain the steps to spiritual enlightenment which can lead to eternal life.

To determine whether a passage is speaking of literal death (cessation of existance) or figurative death (change of spiritual circumstances ) thoughtful consideration should be given to context.


Hope that helps,


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


RELATED POSTS

Metonymy [part le speech]

Further reading
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... phors.html
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... e-and.html


RELATED POSTS

What does Literal / Non-literal mean ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 19#p868419

How does one determine what is or is not literal?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 95#p890395

Did Jesus ever use hyperbole?
viewtopic.php?p=1056274#p1056274

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE BIBLE , HERMENEUTICS* and ... BIBLICAL LITERALISM

* bible interpretation

[onewithhim]

Only that one must admit he is sinful and that he wants to change. That is repentance. Then he aligns his life with God's commands and principles, after accepting the sacrifice of Jesus. Then we must endure to the end (Matt.24:13). Jesus died so that we wouldn't have to be destroyed.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (Rom 6:6)

Peace.

He is saying that our old natures that had been sinful will be gone forever and we can go on with our eternal lives. The literal human is not destroyed.

And how are those “old natures” to be dealt with?

"-that the body of sin might be DESTROYED-"

So yes those “old natures” need to go away and one of them is pride.

Maybe you should swallow yours and realize that destruction is part of the process in which we are saved.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do MORTIFY (kill) the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Rom 8:13 )

Oh so now we are down to attacking me. Stick to the scriptures and what my comment was about them. The old nature would be done away with upon the acceptance of Christ and the life that follows following him. The actual person is not destroyed. That is why we are "saved," so that we will NOT be destroyed. Just our sinful nature.

[EBA]

So yes those “old natures” need to go away and one of them is pride.

Maybe you should swallow yours and realize that destruction is part of the process in which we are saved.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do MORTIFY (kill) the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Rom 8:13 )

Oh so now we are down to attacking me.

I didn’t see that as attacking you, but I do apologize if I hurt your feelings.

The actual person is not destroyed.

What you mean is the physical body is not destroyed right?

That is why we are "saved," so that we will NOT be destroyed. Just our sinful nature.

So the destruction of our sinful nature is part of the process of being saved correct?
That’s what you’re saying here which is what I have been trying to say all along:

Everyone must be destroyed it’s part of the process of salvation.

Our sinful nature manifests through our PERSONality and our PERSONality must change. And in order for our PERSONality to change, that PERSONality must:

- be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. (Mar 9:49)

Is that literal fire? No.

Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: (1 Peter 4:12)

Is that literal fire? No.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (gehenna). (Mat 5:30)

Is that literal fire? No.

Your PERSONality is YOU. It is not your physical body. Your physical body does not sin.

Peace.

[onewithhim]

So yes those “old natures” need to go away and one of them is pride.

Maybe you should swallow yours and realize that destruction is part of the process in which we are saved.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do MORTIFY (kill) the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Rom 8:13 )

Oh so now we are down to attacking me.

I didn’t see that as attacking you, but I do apologize if I hurt your feelings.

The actual person is not destroyed.

What you mean is the physical body is not destroyed right?

That is why we are "saved," so that we will NOT be destroyed. Just our sinful nature.

So the destruction of our sinful nature is part of the process of being saved correct?
That’s what you’re saying here which is what I have been trying to say all along:

Everyone must be destroyed it’s part of the process of salvation.

Our sinful nature manifests through our PERSONality and our PERSONality must change. And in order for our PERSONality to change, that PERSONality must:

- be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. (Mar 9:49)

Is that literal fire? No.

Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: (1 Peter 4:12)

Is that literal fire? No.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (gehenna). (Mat 5:30)

Is that literal fire? No.

Your PERSONality is YOU. It is not your physical body. Your physical body does not sin.

Peace.

Our physical bodies are influenced by sin. It is because Adam sinned that we grow old, get sick, be plagued by infirmities, and eventually die. When Christ died mankind had the chance to override sin and death by putting our faith in him. In Paradise we will soon have perfect, sinless bodies, like Adam had when he was first created.

(You have mixed up the responses to where you say I said certain things that YOU said, and vice versa, in half of your post.)

[EBA]

So yes those “old natures” need to go away and one of them is pride.

Maybe you should swallow yours and realize that destruction is part of the process in which we are saved.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do MORTIFY (kill) the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Rom 8:13 )

Oh so now we are down to attacking me.

I didn’t see that as attacking you, but I do apologize if I hurt your feelings.

The actual person is not destroyed.

What you mean is the physical body is not destroyed right?

That is why we are "saved," so that we will NOT be destroyed. Just our sinful nature.

So the destruction of our sinful nature is part of the process of being saved correct?
That’s what you’re saying here which is what I have been trying to say all along:

Everyone must be destroyed it’s part of the process of salvation.

Our sinful nature manifests through our PERSONality and our PERSONality must change. And in order for our PERSONality to change, that PERSONality must:

- be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. (Mar 9:49)

Is that literal fire? No.

Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: (1 Peter 4:12)

Is that literal fire? No.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (gehenna). (Mat 5:30)

Is that literal fire? No.

Your PERSONality is YOU. It is not your physical body. Your physical body does not sin.

Peace.

Our physical bodies are influenced by sin. It is because Adam sinned that we grow old, get sick, be plagued by infirmities, and eventually die. When Christ died mankind had the chance to override sin and death by putting our faith in him. In Paradise we will soon have perfect, sinless bodies, like Adam had when he was first created.

(You have mixed up the responses to where you say I said certain things that YOU said, and vice versa, in half of your post.)

Please show me.

[onewithhim]

So yes those “old natures” need to go away and one of them is pride.

Maybe you should swallow yours and realize that destruction is part of the process in which we are saved.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do MORTIFY (kill) the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Rom 8:13 )

Oh so now we are down to attacking me.

I didn’t see that as attacking you, but I do apologize if I hurt your feelings.

The actual person is not destroyed.

What you mean is the physical body is not destroyed right?

That is why we are "saved," so that we will NOT be destroyed. Just our sinful nature.

So the destruction of our sinful nature is part of the process of being saved correct?
That’s what you’re saying here which is what I have been trying to say all along:

Everyone must be destroyed it’s part of the process of salvation.

Our sinful nature manifests through our PERSONality and our PERSONality must change. And in order for our PERSONality to change, that PERSONality must:

- be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. (Mar 9:49)

Is that literal fire? No.

Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: (1 Peter 4:12)

Is that literal fire? No.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (gehenna). (Mat 5:30)

Is that literal fire? No.

Your PERSONality is YOU. It is not your physical body. Your physical body does not sin.

Peace.

Our physical bodies are influenced by sin. It is because Adam sinned that we grow old, get sick, be plagued by infirmities, and eventually die. When Christ died mankind had the chance to override sin and death by putting our faith in him. In Paradise we will soon have perfect, sinless bodies, like Adam had when he was first created.

(You have mixed up the responses to where you say I said certain things that YOU said, and vice versa, in half of your post.)

Please show me.

Go back and look. Post #103.

[EBA]

Go back and look. Post #103.

Still not seeing it.
Why don't you just tell me what your premise is and we'll see if we agree here.
I'm not sure I could've been any clearer on mine.

[onewithhim]

Go back and look. Post #103.

Still not seeing it.
Why don't you just tell me what your premise is and we'll see if we agree here.
I'm not sure I could've been any clearer on mine.

I don't think it could've been clearer than what is in post #104. (Sorry, it wasn't 103.) See if you can see what I'm saying from that post. You posted that I said something that you actually said, more than once, and likewise you posted that you said what I actually said. This happened twice I think. Just to iron out any bumps in the discussion.

[EBA]

I don't think it could've been clearer than what is in post #104. (Sorry, it wasn't 103.) See if you can see what I'm saying from that post. You posted that I said something that you actually said, more than once, and likewise you posted that you said what I actually said. This happened twice I think. Just to iron out any bumps in the discussion.

I see it now. I'll try to edit it. Thank You.

[EBA]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #108]

This is the best I could do. I can't edit it in the original post #103 (you had it right the first time).My apologies. This is one of the reasons i write in blue but sometimes I mess it up. Thanks again. I haven't found the other one you spoke of but I'll keep looking.

So yes those “old natures” need to go away and one of them is pride.

Maybe you should swallow yours and realize that destruction is part of the process in which we are saved.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do MORTIFY (kill) the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Rom 8:13 )

Oh so now we are down to attacking me.