"Take my word for it, or his, or this book"

[Zzyzx]

Most of us probably know better than to believe everything said or written. If someone tells us they can fly by flapping their arms, our response is likely disbelief and a request that they ‘show me’. If they refuse to demonstrate or fail in flapping, we regard their claim as false. Agreed?

If a person claims to have come back to life after being dead for days none of us are likely to believe the claim unless it could be verified. Right?

If someone writes that fifty years ago a long-dead person came back to life and flew away into the sky, what would be your / our likely reaction? Would we be convinced if they say ‘many saw him’?

What would it take to convince us that the tale was true?

[JehovahsWitness]

Writings in the air, and a cool voice from above.

QUESTION What do you mean by "writings in the air" ? More paranormal?

QUESTION By "a cool voice from above" do you mean an audible voice from the spirit realm?

QUESTION Is that all or is there any other means by which God can communication with humans?






JW



============================================

INCARNATE

. The Son of God was the man who was born of Mary, and who was the physical vessel of the Almighty God in His incarnation

Jesus used the mind of a fourteen-year-old boy in this regard, as He used a physical vessel in His incarnation. ...

Those are more than enough testimonies of Jesus to know that He continues to shepherd His sheep across all generations.

I have to agree. Now I have a few questions

• QUESTION What do you mean by "writings in the air" ? More paranormal?

• QUESTION By "a cool voice from above" do you mean a voice from the spirit realm?

• QUESTION Is that all or is ther any other means by which God can communication with humans?

Take them literally; they’re not metaphors.

That doesn't really help because I have never seen literal writing in the air so I have no idea what that might mean...

• by "writings in the air" does it mean seeing letters suddenly appear without a physical source, amounting to a paranormal apparition?

• By "a cool voice from above" do you mean an audible voice from the spirit realm?

• And are there any other means by which God is currently communicating with with humans?

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to tam in post #464]

Theologians are just men, Jack, same as you or me.

I have never said a thing in the world concerning theologians being anything other than men. However, the thing is, we have the written word given to us all, and we can verify the teachings of these theologians against the written word, as opposed to you who we would have to simply take your word that you have a direct line to Jesus, and have no need for the written word given to us all.

But the main thing here is, you would have to insist that these hundreds, upon hundreds of theologians down through the centuries, along with those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Jesus are not on the same plain as you as far as Jesus is concerned, and the question would be, how did you obtain such a benefit? What is it about you, or what you have done which causes you to have such a privilege? I mean, we have these theologians, who have dedicated their whole life to the cause of the study of the scripture, who have missed out on what you claim to enjoy, and I am wondering why Jesus chose you, and folks like you, over these theologians along with all the rest of us who love Christ, the Gospel, and what God has accomplished on our behalf?

Allow me to ask this another way. What makes you superior to all these hundreds of hundreds of theologians? Paul tells Timothy to "show yourself approved of God, a workman who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth," which these theologians have done. So then, what is it about you, and or what you have done which God seems to approve of which causes you to have this direct communication?

Is that question supposed to nullify the Word of God?

The question is, not what Jesus can do, because we know that all things are possible with God. Rather, the question is, what has Jesus promised to do? This goes back to your false claim that those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Jesus are acting as if Jesus is dead. Ergo, the question is not whether Jesus can speak, but rather the question is, whether Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, and before he departed, He gave authority to the witnesses He chose, and we are all on the same playing field as we are to heed what these witnesses have to say, whom we know for a fact listened to Jesus directly as He lived, walked, and taught among them for some three years? Or do we listen to one who has not witnessed a thing at all concerning the life, and teaching of Jesus, who wants to insist they have a direct line to Jesus, with no evidence in the least? That is the question.

The point is we can verify these men witnessed the life, teaching, death, and resurrection of Jesus, and we can know we are on solid ground as we read what they have to say. You on the other hand tell us not to listen to you, but rather listen to a voice in our head, which you cannot even describe yourself, and we have no way in the world to know what voice we are listening to.

Because the Word of God said that His sheep listen to His voice, that He has more sheep to call, that they too will listen to His voice, that His sheep follow Him because they know His voice.

Are you referring to the Bible as the "Word of God?" Because I can tell you that what you are quoting comes straight out of what is called the Bible. If you say we are not to listen to the Bible, and are only to listen to Jesus, how do we know that what you are quoting from the Bible would be correct? However, and more importantly, we know this passage you are quoting directly from the Bible, which you claim we are not to listen to, has nothing whatsoever to do with you. What we do know for certain is, Jesus left the apostles with His authority on earth, and we are to listen to them just as the early Christians continued to "devote themselves to the apostles teaching" and the apostles never once taught anything at all concerning hearing the voice of Jesus directly, but rather taught us that "the scriptures are able to make the man of God complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." So then, what do you suggest? Should we pay heed to what these apostles have to say? Or do we listen to you tell us not to listen to you, but rather listen to a voice inside of us, which we have no way to verify? I cannot verify what you have to say. I can indeed verify that the apostles had authority from Jesus and spoke to Jesus directly as He taught them in person.

Not sure what the man is talking about here regarding public book or preaching.

Allow me to attempt to explain. What is contained in the Bible is open to all, as opposed to what you are claiming which is a private communication which cannot be verified.

the Quran is a public book that may be accessed anytime. Islam is a public religion. Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism - all public religions with 'holy books' that can be accessed anytime, and have public preachers/imams/rabbis.

This is really funny because you are making this theologians point. You are correct that these are all public religions, which means we have access to them all. Now, would you like to compare all these religions as far as the historical evidence is concerned? Because I can tell you without a doubt that there is no other religion which is built upon historical evidence and facts. In other words, like you, most of these other religions are based upon what God supposedly revealed to someone, who is relaying the message to us all, or it is some sort of moral teachings. On the other hand, Christianity has nothing to do with teaching us how to be moral, but rather is built upon the historical event of the resurrection, and how we are to let go of our chase after morality and rather trust in the work of God through Christ on the cross.

The bottom line is, the crucifixion was a public event which was documented. The witness of those who claim to have seen Jesus alive after death was a public event which was documented. The life of those who witnessed Jesus alive after death, and the writings they left are, and was a public event. What you claim is private, and you have no way to verify what you claim to anyone. It is a fact that if you cannot verify to anyone else, then you cannot verify it to yourself.

The question is, do we listen to the public witness given to us all in the scripture? Or do we listen to a private voice inside of us which we cannot verify? Let us keep in mind as we contemplate this question, as far as I can tell, we have you who is claiming a direct line to Jesus, along with two others in this conversation, and none of you all can agree as to who is really hearing from Jesus, as you all continue to disagree. In fact, you would have to insist that at least one of them could not possibly be hearing directly from Jesus. So then, how in the world could we on the outside confirm which if any are hearing from Jesus directly? What we would need is some sort of witness from the outside of us which we have contained in the Bible, which tells us that the public witness we all have on the outside, "is able to make the man of God complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work," which means we do not have to depend on a private voice on the inside. It is, public witness, verses private communication.

But there were multiple witnesses to the risen Christ, yes. Multiple people testified to this (as opposed to, say, Joseph Smith alone testifying to the golden plates.)

You have just demonstrated my case. In other words, you have just demonstrated that even though Joseph Smith claims to have had some sort of private communication, you have demonstrated from what is contained in the Bible that Smith was a false prophet, and all it took for you to know this is the "public witness" of what is contained in the Bible which is outside of us, and available to all of us, no direct line to Jesus required. Unless of course, you want to share with us how Jesus has revealed to you that Smith was indeed a false prophet.

You see how he says 'to be sure' though? Clearly, he cannot deny this happened (and this happened with more than just the apostles or those they 'laid hands' upon). But he is going to attempt to dismiss it or brush it aside.

He did not "brush it aside" in the least. Rather, he confronted it head on, by demonstrating that these events occurred while the NT was still in the process of being recorded. In other words, this sort of communication was still in effect during the time in which we did not have the completed scripture. Once the scripture is complete, there is no more need in you, "onejack," nor William arguing over who is really hearing from Jesus directly, since we can all know that none of you have a direct line to Jesus, but rather we are all on the same footing as we all have access to the public witness to us all. What you and "Onejack" would like us to believe is, you all are superior Christians to those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Jesus, when the fact of the matter is, we are all on the same footing as we all have access to the same "public witness" which God has supplied in the completed scripture, which is "able to make the man of God complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Christ did not 'submit Himself to the scriptures.' He submitted Himself to His Father. He, Himself, is the Word of God.

GOOD GRIEF! Just for one example, when Jesus was tempted by Satan, Jesus responded to Satan on all three occasions, with "it is written." When Jesus does this, He is referring to the words of the prophets contained in scripture and putting the word of the prophets on par with the word of God. What Jesus demonstrated is that all we need in order to combat the work of Satan is what is written.

But even with the scriptures written, Christ still spoke to people - both before and after His ascension. The scriptures could not have told Phillip to go specifically to the Ethiopian. The scriptures were not enough for Peter to understand and accept that Gentiles were also invited into the new covenant.

We have already been over this above. These events occurred before the NT was complete. Once the NT is complete, we have all we need in order to make us "complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work?" What else do we need? You are suggesting that what God has supplied is not enough.

The scriptures did not stop Paul from persecuting the early church.

I do not know what in the world this would have to do with it, but the fact is, we have the life of Paul recorded for us, and we know that Paul was an apostle with authority given to Him by Jesus, and this very same Paul tells Timothy that the "scripture is able to make the man of God complete." Paul does not tell Timothy to seek to hear from Jesus directly.

The scriptures could not have told Ananais to go to Paul afterward.

Again, all this is occurring at the time, or before the NT was being recorded, and we are reading the events which caused us to have the "public witness" which is able to make us complete. But the question is, what is it about reading the events of what happened to Ananais, which causes you to believe this should occur to you? I mean, you read where the apostles "preformed many signs and wonders" and you do not seem to believe this should be something which pertains to you, but for some strange reason you want to insist that the direct line to Jesus pertains to you?

Christ did these things - and He is still doing these things today.

That is what you continue to say. The problem is you have no way to demonstrate this to be the case. All we have from you is, "take my word for it." All you are doing is to read in the NT, which you claim is not from Jesus, and seeing where there were those who had some sort of experience, and somehow assuming that you are to have the same experience. However, and again, you pick and choose those experiences. In other words, when we read in the NT of those hearing from Jesus directly, this is to apply to you. However, when it involves experiences which can be verified, such as signs, wonders, and miracles, you do not claim these sorts of experiences. Wonder why? No! Not really. I know exactly why, and so does the audience you are pretending for.

Yet these theologians - these men you look to - they teach that this power is gone.

This is false information, and it will demonstrate that you are the one "who walks by sight." Because you see, these theologians I look to understand that the scripture tells us that the same power it took to raise Christ from the dead, is the same power which raises us from spiritual death to spiritual life. These same theologians teach and believe that the true Church on this earth has the power to forgive sin. You see, what you are seeking is power, and your words demonstrate this to be the case, while you are failing to realize that the "gospel is the power of God unto salvation," and the power it took to raise Jesus from the grave is the same mighty power which raises us. You see, you want to see power, feel power, experience power, have power. I understand that my salvation is the most powerful force in the universe, and I do not have to see it, feel it, or experience it, because I believe in the Promise.

ack, just because these theologians do not hear the voice of the Good Shepherd, does not mean He does not speak.

It is not as though they do not hear the voice of the Good Shepherd. Rather, they hear it in the word given to us all in the scripture. In other words, these theologians "do not go beyond what is written."

Did Christ not say 'woe' to the teachers of the law? The scribes? The Pharisees?

What does the above have to do with theologians of today? The fact is while you who has no authority in the least tell us we are to be taught by Christ alone, and we do not need any other pastor, or teacher to teach us, Paul who has authority given to him by Christ Himself tells the Ephesians that Christ,

"gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the [e]saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ."

Again, you who has no authority in the least, contradicts what one we know has authority from Christ has to say. Moreover, Timothy was a pastor himself, and so was Titus, and Paul tells Titus to "appoint elders in every city just as I commanded." The question is, if we all are to hear from Christ directly, then why would there be a need for pastors and teachers?

Compare also to what Christ said here:

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers." Matt 23:8

Tammy, we do not have the time and space to correct your faulty understanding of scripture. Where was Jesus when He spoke the words above? He was right here on earth speaking to the people Himself. Ergo, Jesus was saying, you have no need in Rabbis and teachers since the Christ is your teacher and I am He. However, Christ was crucified by these very people, and when He ascended into heaven, He left the apostles in authority, and these apostles set up the Church with pastors, teachers, elders, etc. So again, Jesus was alive on earth at the time He said the above, and He was telling His followers at the time, "you have no need in Rabbis and teachers because I the Christ am with you and among you." This has nothing whatsoever to do with us today.

As I have already explained, and you failed to respond to, it is a fact beyond dispute that the Apostle John had his own disciples, and one of those disciples was a man named Polycarp, and we have writings from this very same Polycarp. So then, Polycarp sat under the teachings of the Apostle John for years and Polycarp was indeed a pastor, teacher, overseer, of the Church in Smyrna. In other words, you continue to insist to us that we are to have no other shepherd, pastor, teacher, other than Christ, while those in authority over the early Church, those who had witnessed Christ alive on this earth, set up the Church in such a way as to have pastors, teachers, elders, and deacons.

Compare it even to what John said about needing men to teach us:

But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him. 1 John 2:27

Okay, let us go through this. You insist that we are not to be guided by what is contained in the Bible but are rather to be directly guided by Christ Himself as we listen to some sort of voice. You go on to tell us that you do not possess the ability to interpret scripture. On the other hand, you continue to use these very same scriptures, which you claim we are not to be guided by, as well as the same scriptures you insist you cannot interpret, in order to defend your fantasy. If you do not have the ability to interpret scripture, then how in the world have you determined this passage would apply to you? Have you received some sort of anointing? Why don't you share with us what this anointing is all about? The fact is none of us (and this certainly without a doubt includes you) have any idea who John was addressing in this letter, but we certainly cannot assume that what John has to say to his audience at the time would apply to us today.

The above is exactly what I am talking about, and it is what is called "reckless theology." You insist we are not to be guided by what is contained in the Bible, and you insist you do not have the ability to interpret the Bible, and then go on to use bits, and pieces of this very same scripture, having no idea what the context would be, and go on to insist this passage in which you have no idea as to what is being communicated, must and has to apply to you. On the other hand, as I have demonstrated over, and over, not everything which is communicated in the Bible applies to you. As just one example, nothing whatsoever in the letter addressed to Philemon would have a thing in the world to do with you.

Just taking that last reference, 1 Peter 1:23

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The Word of God who is alive... is the Christ.

People are born again through Christ.

Not through the bible.

Sort of strange here? I noticed that when you give the quote above as written from the scripture, "word" is not capitalized. However, when you go on to comment on this passage for some strange reason you capitalize "Word." So, let us think about this. When "Word" is used in reference to Christ in scripture, it is indeed capitalized, such as in The Gospel of John where we read,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

However, when "word" is used in reference to the scripture, it is not capitalized such as is the case in the passage you are quoting. Ergo, in the passage from The Gospel of John, "Word" is clearly referring to Christ Himself. However, when Peter uses "word" he is clearly referring to the written "word" contained in the scripture. In fact, it was this very same Peter who also had this to say to his audience,

"For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty."

Peter here is referring to "fables" like the one you are attempting to sell us with this fantasy of your direct line to Christ. He goes on to describe the "transfiguration of Christ" on the mountain which Peter witnessed where he heard the actual voice of God. What Peter is saying is, unlike the story you are telling, what he heard was not based upon "fairy tales" and "bedtime stories." Rather, what Peter heard and witnessed was a real historical event, which happen in real time, in real space, and in real history. However, even though Peter heard the voice from heaven, he goes on to assure his audience that "we have the more sure prophetic word." In other words, the "prophetic word" (notice "word" is not capitalized) meaning the scripture is more certain than a voice from heaven. Also notice that even though Peter heard this voice from heaven, he does not instruct his audience to seek to hear voices from heaven, but rather instructs them to pay heed to what is written, because what is written is more certain.

2 Peter 1:18-21
"And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."

So then, we have Peter who was given authority by Christ telling his audience to pay heed to the scripture, while we have you with no authority in the least telling us we are not to be guided by the scripture. Moreover, we have this same Peter who was given authority by Christ Himself referring to the letters of Paul as scripture, and it was Paul who also had authority from Christ who said,

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

It is abundantly clear that scripture is all we need, and we are to seek no other communication, which goes on to demonstrate that you absolutely are not in any way superior to those of us who understand that Christ has supplied all we need in the "prophetic word" given to us all externally.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #464]

Theologians are just men, Jack, same as you or me.

I have never said a thing in the world concerning theologians being anything other than men. However, the thing is, we have the written word given to us all, and we can verify the teachings of these theologians against the written word, as opposed to you who we would have to simply take your word that you have a direct line to Jesus, and have no need for the written word given to us all.

Jack, it is not about me. I am simply bearing witness to Christ.

To the truth that He is alive, truly alive, and does speak. That His sheep listen to His voice - just as He said we would.

That can be verified against what is written.

But the main thing here is, you would have to insist that these hundreds, upon hundreds of theologians down through the centuries, along with those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Jesus are not on the same plain as you as far as Jesus is concerned, and the question would be, how did you obtain such a benefit? What is it about you, or what you have done which causes you to have such a privilege? I mean, we have these theologians, who have dedicated their whole life to the cause of the study of the scripture, who have missed out on what you claim to enjoy, and I am wondering why Jesus chose you, and folks like you, over these theologians along with all the rest of us who love Christ, the Gospel, and what God has accomplished on our behalf?

Why are you asking me this question? Christ is the One who chooses. Why not ask Him?

Allow me to ask this another way. What makes you superior to all these hundreds of hundreds of theologians?

I am not superior to anyone. I have said that numerous times throughout our discussion.

Do these hundreds of hundreds of theologians even want to hear his voice? Or do they teach that He does not speak? Do they teach that seeking to listen to His voice is 'dangerous and reckless'?

Paul tells Timothy to "show yourself approved of God, a workman who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth," which these theologians have done.

Jack, how could they have 'rightly divided' anything if they teach the opposite of what Christ said?

So then, what is it about you, and or what you have done which God seems to approve of which causes you to have this direct communication?

Jack, I am not deserving or superior or any of these other things that you have suggested.

I can tell you only that I asked to know the truth (God's Truth.) I asked to be led wherever God wanted me to be. I did this out of love (though I was loved first.) God led me to His Son, and His Son taught me to remain in Him, to listen to Him.

I loved (and love) Him and His Father - though I was loved first. I serve out of love.

I did ask for ears to hear - I did seek and knock, and I had faith (faith that was given to me) that His promise and words were true.

But Christ is the One who chooses.

Is that question supposed to nullify the Word of God?

The question is, not what Jesus can do, because we know that all things are possible with God. Rather, the question is, what has Jesus promised to do?

Jah'eshua said that His sheep listen to His voice. He said that He calls His sheep by name.

Not just those sheep who were present at the time, but all His sheep, period.

He said the following as well:

"Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."


He said He will return, He said the one who eats His flesh and drinks His blood remains in Him and Him in us, and He will raise us up.

He said many things - and He is the Truth, the One to whom God said to listen, and we can know His words are true.

This goes back to your false claim that those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Jesus are acting as if Jesus is dead. Ergo, the question is not whether Jesus can speak, but rather the question is, whether Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, and before he departed, He gave authority to the witnesses He chose, and we are all on the same playing field as we are to heed what these witnesses have to say, whom we know for a fact listened to Jesus directly as He lived, walked, and taught among them for some three years? Or do we listen to one who has not witnessed a thing at all concerning the life, and teaching of Jesus, who wants to insist they have a direct line to Jesus, with no evidence in the least? That is the question.

That question has been asked and answered.

"This is my Son, whom I have chosen. Listen to Him."

The apostles certainly never claimed what your theologians are falsely claiming - that Christ stopped speaking (or would stop speaking), that it is wrong to seek Him - He Himself.

None of them taught that Christ would stop speaking once the NT was written. That is something that later men came up with. But they did not learn that from Christ or even from the apostles.

The point is we can verify these men witnessed the life, teaching, death, and resurrection of Jesus,

You can verify that Christ said His sheep would listen to His voice, that He calls His sheep by name, that He said He stands at the door and knocks, and if anyone hears His voice and opens the door, that He will come in and eat with them and them with Him.

You can verify that fact that many people - not just the apostles and Paul - listened to His voice.

But these things you do not believe.

Instead you believe the teaching of men who came later - who did/do not hear the voice of the Son of God - who tell you that Christ is not speaking to you. Who tell you that if you attempt to seek God through any means other than the bible, that you are wrong, that you are rejecting God and what He provided, that you are arrogant, dissatisfied, etc, etc.

They do not hear - and they are doing their best to make sure you do not hear either - that you do not even WANT to hear Him. Even using fear and shame to keep you from trying, from desiring, from seeking.

**

You dismissed the analogy to the WTS earlier - but these men are all doing the exact same thing.

Because the Word of God said that His sheep listen to His voice, that He has more sheep to call, that they too will listen to His voice, that His sheep follow Him because they know His voice.

Are you referring to the Bible as the "Word of God?"

I am not.

The Word of God is Christ.

He is the One who said these things.

Because I can tell you that what you are quoting comes straight out of what is called the Bible.

Yet still you do not accept them.


Going to stop here for now so the post does not get too long...


Peace again to you.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #492]

Not sure what the man is talking about here regarding public book or preaching.

Allow me to attempt to explain. What is contained in the Bible is open to all, as opposed to what you are claiming which is a private communication which cannot be verified.

the Quran is a public book that may be accessed anytime. Islam is a public religion. Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism - all public religions with 'holy books' that can be accessed anytime, and have public preachers/imams/rabbis.

This is really funny because you are making this theologians point.

The theologian appeared to be saying that Christianity is unique among religions because of it's public nature. I just wondered why he mentioned scripture and public preaching since those are not unique to Christianity.

But there were multiple witnesses to the risen Christ, yes. Multiple people testified to this (as opposed to, say, Joseph Smith alone testifying to the golden plates.)

You have just demonstrated my case.

Well this is the part I agreed with - that there were multiple witnesses to the risen Christ.

In other words, you have just demonstrated that even though Joseph Smith claims to have had some sort of private communication, you have demonstrated from what is contained in the Bible that Smith was a false prophet,

I did not claim Joseph Smith is a false prophet simply because no one else saw what he claims to have seen. (No, I am not saying he is a true prophet either.) I simply made a comparison between an event witnessed by multiple people versus an event witnessed by only one person.

You are reading more into my words than I said.

Regardless, what I have shared - that Christ speaks - is not a private thing. I am certainly not the only person who has heard/hears Him. I am not even the person who said that His sheep listen to His voice. He said that Himself. The apostles heard these words, and these words were written down.

When Christ spoke to Ananias and told him to go to Saul/Paul - did anyone besides Ananias hear those words? No. Does that make Ananais a false prophet? Of course not!


Peace again.

[tam]

Peace again to you,

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #492]

You see how he says 'to be sure' though? Clearly, he cannot deny this happened (and this happened with more than just the apostles or those they 'laid hands' upon). But he is going to attempt to dismiss it or brush it aside.

He did not "brush it aside" in the least. Rather, he confronted it head on, by demonstrating that these events occurred while the NT was still in the process of being recorded. In other words, this sort of communication was still in effect during the time in which we did not have the completed scripture. Once the scripture is complete,

So who taught you that once the NT is complete, Christ would no longer speak to people?

Christ did not teach it.

He said 'my sheep listen to my voice.'

Not 'my sheep listen to my voice until the NT is written.'

His sheep, period.

But even with the scriptures written, Christ still spoke to people - both before and after His ascension. The scriptures could not have told Phillip to go specifically to the Ethiopian. The scriptures were not enough for Peter to understand and accept that Gentiles were also invited into the new covenant.

We have already been over this above. These events occurred before the NT was complete. Once the NT is complete, we have all we need in order to make us "complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work?" What else do we need? You are suggesting that what God has supplied is not enough.

Are you suggesting that the NT was complete when Paul wrote those words?

Can the scriptures tell a person to go to someone specifically (such as the Spirit told Phillip?)

Yet these theologians - these men you look to - they teach that this power is gone.

This is false information, and it will demonstrate that you are the one "who walks by sight." Because you see, these theologians I look to understand that the scripture tells us that the same power it took to raise Christ from the dead, is the same power which raises us from spiritual death to spiritual life. These same theologians teach and believe that the true Church on this earth has the power to forgive sin. You see, what you are seeking is power, and your words demonstrate this to be the case, while you are failing to realize that the "gospel is the power of God unto salvation," and the power it took to raise Jesus from the grave is the same mighty power which raises us. You see, you want to see power, feel power, experience power, have power. I understand that my salvation is the most powerful force in the universe, and I do not have to see it, feel it, or experience it, because I believe in the Promise.

Jack, this just sounds like you are trying to distract from what I actually said.

I have not in the least denied the power of Christ and God, for the resurrection or for forgiveness of sins or for salvation.

What the theologians deny is all the rest. That Christ still speaks, teaches, guides, disciplines. That His sheep listen to his voice.

ack, just because these theologians do not hear the voice of the Good Shepherd, does not mean He does not speak.

It is not as though they do not hear the voice of the Good Shepherd. Rather, they hear it in the word given to us all in the scripture. In other words, these theologians "do not go beyond what is written."

If they are claiming that Christ does not speak, that His sheep do not listen to His voice - then they HAVE gone beyond what is written. If they claim that Him speaking ended when the NT was written and compiled - then they have gone beyond what is written. Because what is written makes no such statement, and in fact states the opposite:

My sheep listen to my voice.
I have more sheep to call, they TOO will listen to my voice.
Here I am. I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with them and them with me.

Neither He nor the apostles ever said that He would stop speaking.


Peace again.

[tam]

Peace again,

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #492]

Did Christ not say 'woe' to the teachers of the law? The scribes? The Pharisees?

What does the above have to do with theologians of today? The fact is while you who has no authority in the least tell us we are to be taught by Christ alone, and we do not need any other pastor, or teacher to teach us,

I did not claim to have authority over you. I simply stated that Christ is alive and does speak, and His sheep listen to His voice.

And it is John who said the following:

I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His TRUE and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught. 28And now, little children, remain in Christ, so that when He appears, we may be confident and unashamed before Him at His coming

Paul who has authority given to him by Christ Himself tells the Ephesians that Christ,

"gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the [e]saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ."

Again, you who has no authority in the least, contradicts what one we know has authority from Christ has to say. Moreover, Timothy was a pastor himself, and so was Titus, and Paul tells Titus to "appoint elders in every city just as I commanded." The question is, if we all are to hear from Christ directly, then why would there be a need for pastors and teachers?

For servants and witnesses - to serve (out of love), to witness (out of love), to point to Christ, to share as He has said, to help any who are new, immature, young, who may have been misled, etc. To go to whomever the Spirit sends us; to serve one another, to help build up the Body of Christ.

Compare also to what Christ said here:

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers." Matt 23:8

Tammy, we do not have the time and space to correct your faulty understanding of scripture. Where was Jesus when He spoke the words above? He was right here on earth speaking to the people Himself. Ergo, Jesus was saying, you have no need in Rabbis and teachers since the Christ is your teacher and I am He. However, Christ was crucified by these very people, and when He ascended into heaven, He left the apostles in authority, and these apostles set up the Church with pastors, teachers, elders, etc. So again, Jesus was alive on earth at the time He said the above, and He was telling His followers at the time, "you have no need in Rabbis and teachers because I the Christ am with you and among you." This has nothing whatsoever to do with us today.

It does.

But I think you missed the point. Christ said (and this to the apostles): you are not to be called Rabbi.

If (as the spirit has reminded me) even the apostles were not to be called Rabbi, how do you suppose any of the rest of us could be called Rabbi?

Compare it even to what John said about needing men to teach us:

But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him. 1 John 2:27

Okay, let us go through this. You insist that we are not to be guided by what is contained in the Bible but are rather to be directly guided by Christ Himself as we listen to some sort of voice. You go on to tell us that you do not possess the ability to interpret scripture. On the other hand, you continue to use these very same scriptures, which you claim we are not to be guided by, as well as the same scriptures you insist you cannot interpret, in order to defend your fantasy. If you do not have the ability to interpret scripture, then how in the world have you determined this passage would apply to you?

Jack, I am just going to link to the last post where I addressed this question:

viewtopic.php?p=1188036#p1188036

Have you received some sort of anointing?

Yes, from my Lord, the anointing of holy spirit, the same anointing that John is referring to in his letter.

Why don't you share with us what this anointing is all about?

This is the anointing of holy spirit. The anointing that makes us Christian (anointed ones.)

This is the same holy spirit (blood, breath, seed of JAH) that Christ breathed upon His apostles, and again at Pentecost, and again with Cornelius and his household (family and friends.)

Those are just some examples we have been given in what is written.

It is how Christ and His Father are in us (make their home within us) - by means of holy spirit (the breath, blood, seed of JAH.) The blood speaks - and this is the breath/blood/seed of JAH. It is this holy spirit within us that can bear witness to the truth of something (or reject something that is untrue.)

The fact is none of us (and this certainly without a doubt includes you) have any idea who John was addressing in this letter, but we certainly cannot assume that what John has to say to his audience at the time would apply to us today.

John is addressing those who have received this anointing from the Holy One (from Christ.)

You say we cannot assume that applies to us today... but do you instead assume that it DOESN'T apply to us today?

On the other hand, as I have demonstrated over, and over, not everything which is communicated in the Bible applies to you. As just one example, nothing whatsoever in the letter addressed to Philemon would have a thing in the world to do with you.

Yet, you believe what was written to timothy alone applies to people today. You claim that is because Paul used the term 'man of God' so it applies to all who are 'men of God' (then and now).

Well, John was speaking to those who had received an anointing from the Holy One. Do you accept that this applies to all who received an anointing from the Holy One (then and now)?

Christ said that His sheep listen to His voice. Do you accept that this refers to all who are His sheep (then and now)?

Just taking that last reference, 1 Peter 1:23

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The Word of God who is alive... is the Christ.

People are born again through Christ.

Not through the bible.

Sort of strange here? I noticed that when you give the quote above as written from the scripture, "word" is not capitalized. However, when you go on to comment on this passage for some strange reason you capitalize "Word." So, let us think about this. When "Word" is used in reference to Christ in scripture, it is indeed capitalized, such as in The Gospel of John where we read,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

However, when "word" is used in reference to the scripture, it is not capitalized such as is the case in the passage you are quoting. Ergo, in the passage from The Gospel of John, "Word" is clearly referring to Christ Himself. However, when Peter uses "word" he is clearly referring to the written "word" contained in the scripture.

The original language does not distinguish between uppercase and lowercase letters.

Later men decided what would or would not be capitalized. They did that based upon the beliefs and teachings of the time. Sometimes Word is not capitalized where it should be.

We know that the Word of God is Christ. We know that Christ is alive.

We know that Christ is the Living Word of God - aka - the Word of God who is alive.

Are people born again via the bible? Or are people born again via Christ?

In fact, it was this very same Peter who also had this to say to his audience,

"For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty."

Peter here is referring to "fables" like the one you are attempting to sell us with this fantasy of your direct line to Christ.

How do you know what Peter is referring to?

He goes on to describe the "transfiguration of Christ" on the mountain which Peter witnessed where he heard the actual voice of God. What Peter is saying is, unlike the story you are telling, what he heard was not based upon "fairy tales" and "bedtime stories." Rather, what Peter heard and witnessed was a real historical event, which happen in real time, in real space, and in real history.

However, even though Peter heard the voice from heaven, he goes on to assure his audience that "we have the more sure prophetic word." In other words, the "prophetic word" (notice "word" is not capitalized) meaning the scripture is more certain than a voice from heaven.

If you read the translation you quoted below, you will notice that the verse is not suggesting that what is written is more certain than God Himself speaking:

Also notice that even though Peter heard this voice from heaven, he does not instruct his audience to seek to hear voices from heaven, but rather instructs them to pay heed to what is written, because what is written is more certain.

2 Peter 1:18-21
"And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,

Isn't the prophetic word confirmed in Christ?

And didn't the voice that they heard from heaven confirm that Jaheshua is the Son of God, the One He chose, the One he said to listen to?

Peter is listing evidence for the testimony that he is giving: his personal eyewitness testimony of what he heard and saw from Christ, the confirmation from God speaking from heaven, also scripture. He is not suggesting that the written word is more sure than God speaking, Himself.

which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."

That morning star is Christ.

Rev 22:16


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to tam in post #493]

Jack, it is not about me.

It most certainly is, and has been all about you. I have heard very little about Christ at all from you. The only thing I know about Christ from you is that you claim to have direct communication with Christ. Other than that, I have heard very little, if anything at all about Christ. It is all about you, and how you have such a cozy relationship with Christ. However, when we read in the Bible concerning those who heard the voice of the Lord, they did not come away with any sort of "cozy feeling." Rather, they come away terrified. Can you imagine why? That is because one who is in the "real world," understands just how sinful we are and would be terrified to know that they are indeed hearing the voice of their Creator.

In fact, Peter seemed to be fine in the presence of Jesus until Peter came to know Jesus was indeed God in the flesh. At this point Peter begged Jesus to "depart from me because I am a sinful man." Moreover, when Isaiah came into the presence of God, he lamented, "woe is me for I am in ruin. I am a man with unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips." Do you know what "ruined" means? Allow me to give you a picture. Once a year for 2 weeks my dad was a cook at Church camp. One year when we arrived back home, I will never forget that before my dad even opened the door to our house, he said, "the refrigerator is ruined." Can you imagine being away for weeks and coming home to the stench of a ruined refrigerator? That is what it is like for us to be in the presence of God. And yet, you not only have this comfy and cozy feeling around the Creator of the universe, but this Creator of the universe also actually reads you bedtime stories. I mean, think about what I am saying? When we have those in the Bible who are confronted with the voice of God, and or Christ, which is one and the same, they do not come away with some sort of "peaceful easy feeling." Rather, they come away terrified.

I am simply bearing witness to Christ.

To whom? Who exactly have you bore witness to Christ, who had never heard the Name of Christ? I am just telling you that the percentage of folks in this world who have never heard the Name of Christ is so small that it would not even register. This is because Christ has already been born witness to, by those Christ left in authority, and because of the work these 12 performed, the overwhelming majority of the whole entire world know the Name of Christ. I have been alive for decades, and I have never, ever met a single person who did not know the Name of Christ, and had not heard of the resurrection. Not one.

To the truth that He is alive, truly alive, and does speak.

All you have to say here is, "and does speak," because all Christians would agree that "He is alive, truly alive." What you are attempting to do here is to equate one who does not claim to have a direct line to Jesus as one who does not believe He is alive. Moreover, you go even further to insist that those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Jesus, insist that Jesus cannot speak. Those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Jesus know He is alive, and we also know that He can speak, and that He has spoken through His prophets, and apostles, and He continues to speak through the written word given to us all externally, and also through the teachers, and pastors He has given to the Church. What He is not doing, is speaking to you directly. Rather, we are all on the same footing. In other words, Christ has not privileged some of us with private internal revelation, and others of us with the public witness revealed to us all on the outside of us. Again, public revelation to all which can be verified, as opposed to private revelation with no verification in the least. In other words, it is the real world, verses make believe, where you have Christ reading you bedtime stories.

That His sheep listen to His voice - just as He said we would.

That can be verified against what is written.

It can indeed be verified that Jesus said, "My sheep will hear my voice" and it can also be verified that this would have nothing to do with you. We have also verified that you, by your own admission have very little knowledge of what is contained in the public witness to us all, as you have admitted that you do not possess the ability to interpret the scripture revealed to us all. This alone verifies that you do not have a direct line of communication to Christ as you claim.

Why are you asking me this question?

I am asking you this question because it is you who claims to have this direct line to Christ, and certainly He has communicated to you the reason you have this privilege over and against those who have dedicated their lives to the study of the scripture which is said to have the ability to "make the man of God complete, along with this same scripture telling us to "show yourself approved of God, a workman who does not need to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth." So then, why has Christ neglected to speak to those who love Him, and the witness He has supplied to us all in the scripture, and gave this privilege to you who claims that this same scripture is not to be our guide?

Christ is the One who chooses. Why not ask Him?

This is because I believe the promise in the scripture which tells us these same scriptures are able to "make the man of God complete" and never commands us to seek to hear the voice of Christ outside the means He has ordained. On the other hand, it is you who claims to have a direct line to Christ, so it would be you who would need to ask Him about this.

I am not superior to anyone. I have said that numerous times throughout our discussion.

OH? But you most certainly are, and it does not matter how many times you attempt to claim the opposite. This is exactly how, and why it is all about you. If there are those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Christ, as opposed to those who do claim to have this direct line, there is no doubt whatsoever that those who have this direct line to Christ, are far superior to those who do not. There is no way around this fact, and attempting to be modest is not working in your favor.

Christ chose the twelve not because they had anything to offer, but they did in fact witness the life, teaching, death, and resurrection of Christ while He was here on the earth. In other words, they were chosen to bear witness to the resurrection. These twelve did exactly that, and in fact went on to do greater works than Christ, as they performed signs, wonders, and miracles, and it is because of the work of the twelve that the whole world knows the Name of Christ, and this would include you. In other words, the only way you know about Christ, and the resurrection is because of the work of the twelve.

You on the other hand, have not witnessed the risen Christ, nor do you have any authority whatsoever as the twelve claimed to have because of their witness of the resurrected Christ and somehow you afford a direct line to Christ, and the only thing you have to offer as far as an explanation is when you read in scripture (which you claim not to be able to understand and it is indeed evident that you do not understand the scriptures) where there were those in Biblical times who heard from Christ directly. This brings us back to a question you continue to avoid. That question is, why is it that when you read of these Biblical characters having a direct line to Christ, then this would apply to you, but for some strange reason when you read of these same folks performing signs, wonders, and miracles, this does not apply to you? We all know the answer to this question, and this would include the audience you are playing to.

The answer is that you are under the impression that it is an unfalsifiable claim, and you can hide behind the idea that no one can ever determine the falsehood of your claim. This can be the only reason you decide that the direct line to Christ applies to you, but not the signs, wonders, and miracles. But the thing is, the more I allow you to type away, the more we are able to see the falsehood in your claim. It is a fact that you do not have this direct line to Christ, and the only way in the world you would have ever known anything at all about Christ, His life, teaching, death, and resurrection is because of the revealed word to us all in the NT. This means, you are on the same playing field as I, in that you do not have any other communication with Christ than I do. I do not have a direct line to Christ, and you do not have a direct line to Christ. What we all have, including both you and I, is the external, revealed word to us all in the scripture, which is "able to make the man of God complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." It is when one claims to have a different line of communication than the rest of us, that it becomes all about that person and the focus then is upon them, instead of Christ.

The above reminds me of a saying I heard just today. It now is one of my favorite sayings. As I have said in the past, I am also very busy combating what is called "Christian nationalism." These Christian nationalists are not really concerned about Christ. Rather, they are concerned about the culture they live in and want to insist the culture behave as Christian. The saying I am referring to says it best when it says, "Christendom over Christ." In other words, on the one hand we are having to battle those who want to place the culture they live in over Christ, and on the other extreme we have folks like you who want to place your personal direct line of communication over Christ.

You see, those of us who do not claim to have a direct line of communication with Christ, truly have our focus on the public witness to us all, which reveals the Gospel to us all, which is Christ raised from the dead for us all. The scripture reveals the Gospel to us all, and the Gospel is the "Good News" of Christ raised from the dead. We go on to understand that the same mighty power it took to raise Christ from the dead, is the same power it took to raise us from spiritual death to spiritual life. In this way we can point folks to the public witness to us all, which reveals that the "Gospel is the power of God unto salvation" and this Gospel is focused upon Christ raised from the dead, and it is opened to all, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with us.

You on the other hand, are forced to insist the scripture is not to be trusted (even though you continue to appeal to the scripture you insist should not be trusted) and that folks must obtain the same sort of direct communication with Christ which you do not have. Ergo, the focus is upon you and the personal communication you claim to have, and if folks do not have this same communication you have, then they really do not have Christ, since their understanding is based upon the scripture, as opposed to the direct communication you have, which is far superior to the scriptures.

So then, I point folks to the scripture, which is a public witness to the whole world, which reveals the Gospel, which is Christ raised from the dead, which is the power of God unto salvation, while you are forced to insist that the public witness to us all is not to be trusted, and that if anyone wants to truly know Christ then they have to have the same direct communication that you have somehow obtained.

So how in the world is it not all about you? My message is, scripture, Gospel, Christ raised from the dead. Your message is the scripture is not to be our guide, you say nothing of the Gospel, and your direct communication with Christ trumps the public witness to us all. So then, yes, it is all about Tammy and the "peaceful easy feeling" she has when Christ reads her bedtime stories and hears His annunciation of the words. GOOD GRIEF!

[OneJack]

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #497]

He continues to speak through the written word given to us all externally, and also through the teachers, and pastors He has given to the Church.

Both of these are lies and illusions; you keep them in your mind because of what you’ve read in the Bible. Christ Jesus continues to speak to mankind through Himself across all generations because He is Immanuel, the Almighty God who is with us always.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Since much of what you posted has been addressed in previous posts, I am responding only to something if it is new:

Otherwise, please see here:

viewtopic.php?p=1188915#p1188915
viewtopic.php?p=1188917#p1188917
viewtopic.php?p=1188919#p1188919
viewtopic.php?p=1188920#p1188920
viewtopic.php?p=1188036#p1188036

[Replying to tam in post #493]

Jack, it is not about me.

However, when we read in the Bible concerning those who heard the voice of the Lord, they did not come away with any sort of "cozy feeling." Rather, they come away terrified.

Was Ananais terrified when Christ spoke to him? (Acts 9)

Was Phillip terrified when Christ spoke to him? (Acts 8)

Some were terrified (depending on the context.) Others were not.

So this is not a valid reason for you to reject the truth that Christ speaks.

Moreover, you go even further to insist that those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Jesus, insist that Jesus cannot speak.

No, you go even further than insisting that He cannot speak. You claim that He CAN speak - but that He chooses not to speak. Not even to His sheep. Why would He not - when He is capable of doing so? When He demonstrated that He has done so? When He said Himself that He would?

So then, why has Christ neglected to speak to those who love Him, and the witness He has supplied to us all in the scripture, and gave this privilege to you who claims that this same scripture is not to be our guide?

Christ has not neglected to speak to those who love Him.

Some love Him.
Some love their idea of Him.
Some love their religion more than Him.
Some have been misled by men who state (with no authority) that He does not speak, and these same men teach people to FEAR hearing His voice, to fear even WANTING to hear His voice.

Regardless, it is not that Christ has neglected to speak (He speaks to everyone) - it is that not everyone listens.

Christ is the One who chooses. Why not ask Him?

This is because I believe the promise in the scripture which tells us these same scriptures are able to "make the man of God complete" and never commands us to seek to hear the voice of Christ outside the means He has ordained.

I asked you once before and you have not yet answered: where do you get this from, that the bible is the means that God has ordained to communicate with us?

I am not superior to anyone. I have said that numerous times throughout our discussion.

OH? But you most certainly are, and it does not matter how many times you attempt to claim the opposite. This is exactly how, and why it is all about you. If there are those of us who do not claim to have a direct line to Christ, as opposed to those who do claim to have this direct line, there is no doubt whatsoever that those who have this direct line to Christ, are far superior to those who do not.

You are the one drawing a comparison. Not me. You also snipped this out of the actual point. You had asked:

Allow me to ask this another way. What makes you superior to all these hundreds of hundreds of theologians?

I responded:

I am not superior to anyone. I have said that numerous times throughout our discussion.

Do these hundreds of hundreds of theologians even want to hear his voice? Or do they teach that He does not speak? Do they teach that seeking to listen to His voice is 'dangerous and reckless'?

Do you have an answer to those questions?

The above reminds me of a saying I heard just today. It now is one of my favorite sayings. As I have said in the past, I am also very busy combating what is called "Christian nationalism." These Christian nationalists are not really concerned about Christ. Rather, they are concerned about the culture they live in and want to insist the culture behave as Christian. The saying I am referring to says it best when it says, "Christendom over Christ." In other words, on the one hand we are having to battle those who want to place the culture they live in over Christ, and on the other extreme we have folks like you who want to place your personal direct line of communication over Christ.

What about the people who place the bible over Christ?
Or the people who place the study of the bible over Christ? You know, where people dedicate their lives to the study of scripture, rather than to Christ and to His Father?

As for your claim about 'folks like me' - was Ananais placing his 'personal direct line of communication' over Christ? Was Ananais even surprised that Christ had spoken to him?

You see, those of us who do not claim to have a direct line of communication with Christ, truly have our focus on the public witness to us all, which reveals the Gospel to us all, which is Christ raised from the dead for us all.

So your focus - your eyes - are upon the 'witness' rather than upon the Person to whom the 'witness' is pointing?



Peace again.

[Jester]

[Replying to Zzyzx in post #1]
Greetings after who knows how long!

But, getting to the debate, I'd say that the key point of disagreement here will be the presumption of naturalism.

Most of us probably know better than to believe everything said or written. If someone tells us they can fly by flapping their arms, our response is likely disbelief and a request that they ‘show me’. If they refuse to demonstrate or fail in flapping, we regard their claim as false. Agreed?

I completely agree on this specific point. I'm skeptical that I'll agree with every extrapolation that might be made from it.

If a person claims to have come back to life after being dead for days none of us are likely to believe the claim unless it could be verified. Right?

I suppose we need to ask ourselves what we mean by "verified" here. To be clear, I completely agree that such a claim should be verified, but this reads as if we have a specific idea about exactly how it should be verified. I'd need to know more about that before I could say whether or not I agree.

If someone writes that fifty years ago a long-dead person came back to life and flew away into the sky, what would be your / our likely reaction? Would we be convinced if they say ‘many saw him’?

I'd definitely want to look into the matter before committing strongly either way. I'd probably ask questions like the following:
Is this one person making the claim, or many?
Is this person/group otherwise credible?
Is this person/group making this claim at personal risk—or with personal gain?
What do I think of the mental state of the person/group? Are the other things they say reasonable and commendable?

But, before any of that, I think I'd want to ask a far more fundamental question:

What would it take to convince us that the tale was true?

The primary thing it would take is being convinced of a general view in which this sort of thing were possible. The question here reads as if one were beginning from a committed naturalism, then considering a claim of resurrection (in isolation) as the only evidence against that naturalistic presumption.

If one presumes naturalism, one will certainly reject claims about a resurrection, but this would beg the question. It makes more sense to start by asking why we're presuming naturalism. Is there a reason to do so?