The consistent events from Jesus' burial to His ascension

[RBD]

Here is the consistent timeline in order from the burial of Jesus, to His ascension 40 days later.

Many women from Galilee follow Joseph and Nicodemus to see Jesus laid in the tomb. Magdalen and the other Mary are specifically mentioned. (John 19) (Mark 15) Afterward that evening, some of the other women go home to prepare spices and ointments for Jesus' body. (Luke 23)

The next day on the high Sabbath, the chief priests go to Pilate for a guard on the tomb. (Matthew 27)

In the night, there's another earthquake, and an angel in appearance as lighting rolls away the stone, making the soldiers become as dead. (Matthew 28) Jesus either resurrects at this time, or any time during the night beforehand. At some time in the night, the guards awaken and depart the empty tomb, to report to the chief priests.

Magdalen comes later in the dark before dawn, and finds the tomb empty. She tells Peter and the other disciple, and they come running to see the tomb empty. They enter to see and depart. (John 20)

Magdalen remains behind and sees two angels in the tomb, and then Jesus Himself alive outside the tomb. She is the first person on earth to see Him after His resurrection. While still dark, she returns again to tell the disciples of His resurrection, and they don't believe it. (John 20) (Mark 16)

Magdalen, the other Mary, Salome, and the other women from Galilee, including Joanna, arrive at the tomb in the morning light. One group arrives with their prepared spices and ointments, while Magdalen's group arrives with bought sweet spices. They find the tomb empty. (Mark 16) (Luke 24)

Magdalen, the other Mary, and Salome are met by the angel that rolled away the stone, and are told to see in the tomb where the Lord had lain. Another angel sitting therein tell them to tell the disciples to go to Galilee to see Jesus. (Matthew 28) (Mark 16) The other women including Joanna enter the tomb and see no one, and while standing outside are met by two more angels, that send them also to the disciples to go to Galilee to meet Jesus. (Luke 24)

All the women depart and en route meet Jesus, and hold His feet in worship. He also sends them all to tell the disciples to meet Him in Galilee. They all then tell the disciples these things, and they don't believe it. (Matthew 28)

Peter runs to the tomb a second time and ponders these things. (Luke 24)

Jesus next appears to Cleopas and another disciple on the road to Emmaus, and later toward evening they recognize Him at table, and He vanishes from their sight. In that hour, they go to the eleven to tell them of Jesus' resurrection. They don't believe it. Luke 24) (Mark 16) Peter has now also seen the Lord Jesus. Paul reports that Jesus also appeared to James at some time.

At evening, Jesus now first appears to the disciples with the others in the their midst, and shows He is indeed resurrected bodily from the dead, and not only a spirit, by showing His hands and side, and eats some fish. Thomas is not with them. (Luke 24) (John 20)

8 days later, He appears to the eleven with Thomas as they sat at meat, and upbraids them for their unbelief, and also challenges Thomas to insert His fingers into his hands, and his hand into Jesus' side. (Mark 16) (John 20)

Afterward on another day, Peter goes a fishin' at the sea of Galilee with 6 other disciples, including Thomas, Nathanael, the sons of thunder, and 2 other disciples. For the third time after His resurrection, Jesus meets His disciples on the Galilee shore with food on a fire. They all know Him. (John 21)

Afterward on another day, all the disciples meet Jesus at the Galilee mount, that He had appointed them, and worshipped Him. Some doubted what to do. (Matthew 28)

On the 40th day after His resurrection, He leads all the disciples and many others to Bethany on Mt Olivet. (Luke 24) (Acts 1) There He gives His great commission with promise of the Holy Ghost, and ascends to heaven to be recieved up in a cloud. The disciples remain standing and looking upward for Jesus, until two angels come to remind them to go to Jerusalem, and wait for the promise of the Father.

These are a consistent order of events from the 4 gospels and Acts 1.

Paul confirms Peter saw the Lord first before the other apostles, on the evening of the first day of His resurrection, and that above 500 saw Him during the 40 days after. He was also seen by James after the evening of the first day, either before His second appearance to them on the 8th day, or afterward before the sea of Galilee for the third time.

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #247]

Jesus not only went to Galilee on resurrection day, as the angels and He Himself said. But also again later in His post-resurrection ministry, when the eleven met Him at an appointed mountain. It's only the disciples that did not go to Galilee on resurrection day, due to their fear and unbelief

"They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.”
(Luke 24:33-34)

"Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
(Matthew 28:16-17)

How would some of the eleven doubt after they were all among those proclaiming, "The Lord has risen!"?

Very good observation, thanks.

The assumption is doubting it's Jesus risen from the dead. However, the context is worshipping Him. Afterall, even risen from the dead, the doubt is still whether to worship Him as God:

Exo 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

People still today place doubt in Jesus Christ the Son of God being God Himself.

And which gospel account says that Jesus went to Galilee twice?

Once a few went to the sea itself to go a fishin, and then all eleven to the mountain of Galilee.

And Thomas was at both, after having already believed His resurrection, and proclaimed Him both Lord and God. Which makes it at least 8 days after His resurrection.

And Luke's not one of those that doubted about worshipping Him as the risen Lord God Himself.

The gospels are the testimony entered on behalf of the disciples.

All gospel writers were disciples of Jesus Christ. Only one did not walk with Him as a man, nor seen Him resurrected from the dead.

You talk a lot about court-of-law principles. If that testimony is to be taken as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, what room is there to add details to harmonize the inconsistencies?

What happens with the testimonies of witnesses first in interrogation rooms, and then in court, other than to show consistency. It's the opposing arguments that seek to discredit them with inconsistency.

So also with seeking fault in Bible testimony...

2Th 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

[RBD]

It is not a FACT it is your personal speculation. The narrative states that Mary returned with the women but there is nothing about her returning with the women after having reported the empty tomb to Peter (and John).

Well, since the latter was in the dark, and the former in first morning light, then returning after the latter is a fact of darkness vs light.

since you do not seem to want to take into account the physical reality of the fact that at dawn darkness gives way to light within minutes, I don't think that your referring to "light" and "dark" can possibly be constructive (I have no idea why you refer to "shining" light in this context). My point is simple,

• the bible at no point specifically states that Mary returned with the women after having reported the empty grave to Peter.

• The bible at no point specifically states that Mary meets the risen Christ "in the dark" .

Nothing new. Moving on, again. Unless something new, again. And not just another version of darkness vs light arguing:

1 Tim 6:3… doting about questions and strifes of words,

[JehovahsWitness]

It is not a FACT it is your personal speculation. The narrative states that Mary returned with the women but there is nothing about her returning with the women after having reported the empty tomb to Peter (and John).

Well, since the latter was in the dark, and the former in first morning light, then returning after the latter is a fact of darkness vs light.

since you do not seem to want to take into account the physical reality of the fact that at dawn darkness gives way to light within minutes, I don't think that your referring to "light" and "dark" can possibly be constructive (I have no idea why you refer to "shining" light in this context). My point is simple,

• the bible at no point specifically states that Mary returned with the women after having reported the empty grave to Peter.

• The bible at no point specifically states that Mary meets the risen Christ "in the dark" .

Nothing new. Moving on, again.

I understand and completely understand if you choose to stop posting in this thread.


The point remains however that there is nothing in the gospel accounts that imposes Mary to visit the tomb with the women after having reported the empty tomb to Peter (and John). The assumption that she had to because she had to meet the risen Christ in darkness is just that and assumption.

Now you may move on if that is your choice.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RBD in post #251]

And which gospel account says that Jesus went to Galilee twice?

Once a few went to the sea itself to go a fishin, and then all eleven to the mountain of Galilee.

And Thomas was at both, after having already believed His resurrection, and proclaimed Him both Lord and God. Which makes it at least 8 days after His resurrection.

So none of them would have doubted by then.

Jesus said to them, “Come and eat breakfast.” Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, “Who are You?”—knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish.

This is now the third time Jesus showed Himself to His disciples after He was raised from the dead.
(John 21:12-14)

That would make the Galilee appearance in Matthew the fourth time they had seen him, yet Matthew says that "some doubted".

What happens with the testimonies of witnesses first in interrogation rooms, and then in court, other than to show consistency. It's the opposing arguments that seek to discredit them with inconsistency.

And when inconsistency is found in cross-examination on the stand, they're discredited.

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #251]

And which gospel account says that Jesus went to Galilee twice?

Once a few went to the sea itself to go a fishin, and then all eleven to the mountain of Galilee.

And Thomas was at both, after having already believed His resurrection, and proclaimed Him both Lord and God. Which makes it at least 8 days after His resurrection.

So none of them would have doubted by then.

And so Jesus went to Galilee twice.

Jesus said to them, “Come and eat breakfast.” Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, “Who are You?”—knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish.

This is now the third time Jesus showed Himself to His disciples after He was raised from the dead.
(John 21:12-14)

That would make the Galilee appearance in Matthew the fourth time they had seen him, yet Matthew says that "some doubted".

If you're not going to acknowledge my responses, then I'm moving on. I don't waste time with unserious people.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RBD in post #255]

And which gospel account says that Jesus went to Galilee twice?

Once a few went to the sea itself to go a fishin, and then all eleven to the mountain of Galilee.

And Thomas was at both, after having already believed His resurrection, and proclaimed Him both Lord and God. Which makes it at least 8 days after His resurrection.

So none of them would have doubted by then.

And so Jesus went to Galilee twice.

This doesn't establish that he went to Galilee twice. It merely illustrates what we must logically conclude if he went to Galilee twice.


"Jesus said to them, 'Come and eat breakfast.' Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, 'Who are You?'—knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish.

This is now the third time Jesus showed Himself to His disciples after He was raised from the dead."
(John 21:12-14)

That would make the Galilee appearance in Matthew the fourth time they had seen him, yet Matthew says that "some doubted".

If you're not going to acknowledge my responses, then I'm moving on. I don't waste time with unserious people.

I'm responding to your response.

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #255]


"Jesus said to them, 'Come and eat breakfast.' Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, 'Who are You?'—knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish.

This is now the third time Jesus showed Himself to His disciples after He was raised from the dead."
(John 21:12-14)

That would make the Galilee appearance in Matthew the fourth time they had seen him, yet Matthew says that "some doubted".

If you're not going to acknowledge my responses, then I'm moving on. I don't waste time with unserious people.

I'm responding to your response.

Ok. Perhaps you haven't seen my response a while back to this point:

"Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
(Matthew 28:16-17)

How would some of the eleven doubt after they were all among those proclaiming, "The Lord has risen!"?

Very good observation, thanks.

The assumption is doubting it's Jesus risen from the dead. However, the context is worshipping Him. Afterall, even risen from the dead, the doubt is still whether to worship Him as God:

Exo 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

People still today place doubt in Jesus Christ the Son of God being God Himself.

The fact that the record says they had all seen Him and proclaimed "The Lord is risen!", proves it's not possible for them to see Him again, and then not believe He rose from the dead. Seeing the risen Lord again can only confirm He is risen, not cause doubt that He is not risen.

The problem with surface reading of words alone for gotcha games, is that it rejects common sense reading: In order to believe some disciples later doubted the Lord is risen, you must first disbelieve that they already proclaimed He is risen. And you must also believe the nonsense, that confirmation of a fact causes doubt, rather than confirmation.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RBD in post #257]

The assumption is doubting it's Jesus risen from the dead. However, the context is worshipping Him. Afterall, even risen from the dead, the doubt is still whether to worship Him as God

The problem with trying to separate their belief that he was God from their belief that he had risen is that even the latecomer Thomas proclaims, "My Lord and my God!" as early as John 20:28, when they're still in Jerusalem only eight days after the resurrection. Besides which, the text itself draws no distinction between their belief that it is Jesus and their belief that Jesus is God.

The fact that the record says they had all seen Him and proclaimed "The Lord is risen!", proves it's not possible for them to see Him again, and then not believe He rose from the dead. Seeing the risen Lord again can only confirm He is risen, not cause doubt that He is not risen.

The problem with surface reading of words alone for gotcha games, is that it rejects common sense reading: In order to believe some disciples later doubted the Lord is risen, you must first disbelieve that they already proclaimed He is risen.

In order to believe some doubted that he was God, you have to ignore Matthew's statement in 28:17 that "when they saw him, they worshipped him".

[JehovahsWitness]

It is not a FACT it is your personal speculation. The narrative states that Mary returned with the women but there is nothing about her returning with the women after having reported the empty tomb to Peter (and John).

Well, since the latter was in the dark, and the former in first morning light, then returning after the latter is a fact of darkness vs light.

since you do not seem to want to take into account the physical reality of the fact that at dawn darkness gives way to light within minutes, I don't think that your referring to "light" and "dark" can possibly be constructive (I have no idea why you refer to "shining" light in this context). My point is simple,

• the bible at no point specifically states that Mary returned with the women after having reported the empty grave to Peter.

• The bible at no point specifically states that Mary meets the risen Christ "in the dark" .

Nothing new ...

Truth is "nothing new" it's just truth. Repeating a rejection of a common sense reading in favor of convoluted personal conjecture based on "darkness" at particular parts of the narrative when such is not explicitly stated, is of course, "nothing new" but I will respect your decision to move on and not respond to this post.

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #257]

The assumption is doubting it's Jesus risen from the dead. However, the context is worshipping Him. Afterall, even risen from the dead, the doubt is still whether to worship Him as God

The problem with trying to separate their belief that he was God from their belief that he had risen is that even the latecomer Thomas proclaims, "My Lord and my God!" as early as John 20:28, when they're still in Jerusalem only eight days after the resurrection. Besides which, the text itself draws no distinction between their belief that it is Jesus and their belief that Jesus is God.

Mat 28:16
Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

The context here is only of worship and doubting. The sole contextual reading in the verses, is of worshipping and some doubting to worship. Only be inserting something else into the sole context, does someone open the door for contradicting it's own context.

And finally, proving the eleven already believed Jesus is risen, only further confirms the context of doubting is to worship, not doubting in His resurrection.

And so, prove all the eleven had already worshipped Jesus, or even acknowledged Him Lord and God as Thomas, and then you have a sure contradiction. Them that had already worshipped Him, now doubted worshipping Him.

At the time, the only ones recorded worshipping Jesus, were the women on the road from the tomb. The record doesn't even say Magdalene first worshipped Him at the tomb. The only recording of all the disciples worshipping Jesus as Lord and God, was after His ascension.

Luk 24:51
And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

Only after His ascension is there no more doubting to worship Him. Even as only after seeing Him risen against, is there no more doubting His resurrection from the dead.

Many of those first disciples were Jews needing to see, in order to believe first, and then also worship.