Is it one, or is it tw?

[placebofactor]

1 Peter 1:1, “Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ,”
How many offices does Peter hold?

Isaiah 45:21, "A just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.”
Is the reference to one or two people?

Titus 2:13, “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ: who gave himself to us”
How many individuals was Paul referring to when he said, “the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ:”

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim it’s both the Father and Son who are going to appear, or is Jesus being referred to as both God and Savior as in Isaiah 45:21?

John 20:27-28, Jesus said to Thomas, “Reach hither your finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”

How many people was Thomas referring to when he said, “My Lord and my God?” The Witnesses calm Thomas is referring to both the Father and Jesus, is that true?

Acts 2:9, “Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites,”
How many nations are mentioned?

Matthew 28:19, “Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.”
How many individuals are mentioned, two or three? Witnesses claim it’s two, not three.

[marke]

[Replying to marke in post #19]


Its 100% fact Catholicism put worship when obeisance is correct.

Marke: Of course corrupted texts offer corrupt readings like RC-inspired alterations of God's authorized word.

[Capbook]

How many people was Thomas referring to when he said, “My Lord and my God?” The Witnesses calm Thomas is referring to both the Father and Jesus...

If by "The Witnesses" you are referring to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses have actually published the following .

what about the apostle Thomas’ saying, “My Lord and my God!” to Jesus at John 20:28? To Thomas, Jesus was like “a god,” especially in the miraculous circumstances that prompted his exclamation. Some scholars suggest that Thomas may simply have made an emotional exclamation of astonishment, spoken to Jesus but directed to God. In either case, Thomas did not think that Jesus was Almighty God, for he and all the other apostles knew that Jesus never claimed to be God but taught that Jehovah alone is “the only true God.”—John 17:3.

I love the words and phrases you use to cover up the truth. "Jesus was like a god." "Miraculous circumstances" "prompted his exclamation." "Some scholars" You forgot to mention which ones. "Tomas may have simply have made an emotional exclamation of ASTONISHMENT." "He spoke to Jesus but directed to God." "I love this one, "In either case" What case would that be?

"Thomas did not think that Jesus was Almighty God." Were you there? That's one of the most deceptive statements I have ever heard.

You say Jesus never called to be God. Let me ask you one question, "Did Jesus created the heaven, and earth? I am not asking you if the Father sent him, or was the Father's active force with him, my question requires a yes or no. "Did Jesus create the heaven and the earth.

Source : https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Sho ... oof-Texts/

To avoid posting misinformation, you can check your sources about the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses by consulting their official website : www.jw.org

JW

Only a Witness can keep up with their changes. I've had enough conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses about John 20:28. Here's what they have said to be a hundred times, Tomas was talking to both Jehovah and Jesus, and don't call me a liar. I've been dealing with Witnesses for forty years.

The Witnesses have given you as valid an answer as what you could say. There is the entire Bible to go against Thomas calling Jesus God. If he wasn't speaking to Jehovah as well, then he was just exclaiming, like we do hundreds of times in our lives, "Oh my God!" Just an exclamation of wonderment. There is no other place in the gospel that calls Jesus God, or even any of the N.T. There is SO MUCH to show that Jesus always looked UP to his Father and declared only that he is God's Son. If John was writing that Thomas was calling Jesus God, he had the opportunity to underscore that idea after that exclamation by John himself agreeing with Thomas, but John didn't say anything close to that. Indeed, in chapter 20 at the end, John could have made a statement that would put it all straight that Jesus is God, but he didn't. He said: "But these are written , that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the SON of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." (John 20:31, KJV)

How can you base your religious opinions on such shaky and tenuous phrases that can be taken many ways, such as John 1:1 and John 8:58? They could be taken in a variety of ways. They are most likely the victims of bad translation. You can't say that about John 20:31 or John 10:36 or John 20:17 or Revelation 3:12 or any other passage that shows Jesus subservient to his Father. (John 5:19; John 12:49,50; John 14:28; John 15:10; John 17:3) Can you?

What is your interpretation with that "life" above I colored red? (John 20:31)

Eternal life.

Thanks, yes, all thing were written that we believe that Jesus is the Christ, and believing Jesus we might have eternal life.(John 20:31)
The Father said that the "eternal life is in His Son Jesus. (1John 5:11)
That would mean that what 1 John 5:20 said Jesus has the eternal life and is the true God.

1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
(UASV+) And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding,  so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life

[servant1]

[Replying to marke in post #21]

Yes you are correct. ALL trinity bibles were translated from Catholicism translating. All filled with errors to mislead.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]


Isaiah is speaking about the true God= YHVH(Jehovah) At that point was the only savior.
Upon Jesus completion of the ransom sacrifice he became savior as well. Without that sacrifice, none would be saved.

Marke: I don't subscribe to the idea that after His death on the cross there were two Saviors rather than one. Neither do I subscribe to the idea that there are two Gods to be worshipped, one all-powerful in heaven and one lesser 'god' on earth.

What are you talking about? Jehovah is obviously the ultimate Savior because all power comes from Him. He is the One that directed Jesus to come to Earth and die for our sins. After that we could say that Jesus is ALSO a savior because it is through him that humans can be saved. It was Jehovah's purpose, as difficult as it was, immediately after Adam rebelled.

There are not two Gods to be worshipped. The ONLY true God is all-powerful and in heaven. Jesus is also in heaven with his Father but not the Almighty God that the Father is. We worship as Almighty God the Father, Jehovah. The worship we give to Jesus is what might be called a "lower level worship." He is not God Almighty but an individual that deserves respect and honor as a powerful and revered individual. He is a "god" in that manner. The Greeks of John's day understood that to be true---that "god" meant just what I posted above. Even judges and political figures and angels have been referred to as "gods."

That does not diminish Jesus' importance. He is God's Son and has done all that the Father told him to do. (John 5:19)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to marke in post #19]


Its 100% fact Catholicism put worship when obeisance is correct.

Marke: Of course corrupted texts offer corrupt readings like RC-inspired alterations of God's authorized word.

"Obeisance" is a form of worship, but not the worship we give to God Almighty. Jesus deserves our obeisance, but not as God Almighty.

[onewithhim]

How many people was Thomas referring to when he said, “My Lord and my God?” The Witnesses calm Thomas is referring to both the Father and Jesus...

If by "The Witnesses" you are referring to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses have actually published the following .

what about the apostle Thomas’ saying, “My Lord and my God!” to Jesus at John 20:28? To Thomas, Jesus was like “a god,” especially in the miraculous circumstances that prompted his exclamation. Some scholars suggest that Thomas may simply have made an emotional exclamation of astonishment, spoken to Jesus but directed to God. In either case, Thomas did not think that Jesus was Almighty God, for he and all the other apostles knew that Jesus never claimed to be God but taught that Jehovah alone is “the only true God.”—John 17:3.

I love the words and phrases you use to cover up the truth. "Jesus was like a god." "Miraculous circumstances" "prompted his exclamation." "Some scholars" You forgot to mention which ones. "Tomas may have simply have made an emotional exclamation of ASTONISHMENT." "He spoke to Jesus but directed to God." "I love this one, "In either case" What case would that be?

"Thomas did not think that Jesus was Almighty God." Were you there? That's one of the most deceptive statements I have ever heard.

You say Jesus never called to be God. Let me ask you one question, "Did Jesus created the heaven, and earth? I am not asking you if the Father sent him, or was the Father's active force with him, my question requires a yes or no. "Did Jesus create the heaven and the earth.

Source : https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Sho ... oof-Texts/

To avoid posting misinformation, you can check your sources about the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses by consulting their official website : www.jw.org

JW

Only a Witness can keep up with their changes. I've had enough conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses about John 20:28. Here's what they have said to be a hundred times, Tomas was talking to both Jehovah and Jesus, and don't call me a liar. I've been dealing with Witnesses for forty years.

The Witnesses have given you as valid an answer as what you could say. There is the entire Bible to go against Thomas calling Jesus God. If he wasn't speaking to Jehovah as well, then he was just exclaiming, like we do hundreds of times in our lives, "Oh my God!" Just an exclamation of wonderment. There is no other place in the gospel that calls Jesus God, or even any of the N.T. There is SO MUCH to show that Jesus always looked UP to his Father and declared only that he is God's Son. If John was writing that Thomas was calling Jesus God, he had the opportunity to underscore that idea after that exclamation by John himself agreeing with Thomas, but John didn't say anything close to that. Indeed, in chapter 20 at the end, John could have made a statement that would put it all straight that Jesus is God, but he didn't. He said: "But these are written , that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the SON of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." (John 20:31, KJV)

How can you base your religious opinions on such shaky and tenuous phrases that can be taken many ways, such as John 1:1 and John 8:58? They could be taken in a variety of ways. They are most likely the victims of bad translation. You can't say that about John 20:31 or John 10:36 or John 20:17 or Revelation 3:12 or any other passage that shows Jesus subservient to his Father. (John 5:19; John 12:49,50; John 14:28; John 15:10; John 17:3) Can you?

What is your interpretation with that "life" above I colored red? (John 20:31)

Eternal life.

Thanks, yes, all thing were written that we believe that Jesus is the Christ, and believing Jesus we might have eternal life.(John 20:31)
The Father said that the "eternal life is in His Son Jesus. (1John 5:11)
That would mean that what 1 John 5:20 said Jesus has the eternal life and is the true God.

That is NOT what you say I John 5:20 means. It does not say that Jesus is the true God. It indicates that the true God is the Father, as you can see from the verse itself:

"But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain knowledge of the true one [his Father]. And we are in union with the true one, by means of HIS Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting." Who is meant by "HIS"? Whose pronoun is that? Of course it refers to the Father. He is the true God.

[marke]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]


Isaiah is speaking about the true God= YHVH(Jehovah) At that point was the only savior.
Upon Jesus completion of the ransom sacrifice he became savior as well. Without that sacrifice, none would be saved.

Marke: I don't subscribe to the idea that after His death on the cross there were two Saviors rather than one. Neither do I subscribe to the idea that there are two Gods to be worshipped, one all-powerful in heaven and one lesser 'god' on earth.

What are you talking about? Jehovah is obviously the ultimate Savior because all power comes from Him. He is the One that directed Jesus to come to Earth and die for our sins. After that we could say that Jesus is ALSO a savior because it is through him that humans can be saved. It was Jehovah's purpose, as difficult as it was, immediately after Adam rebelled.

There are not two Gods to be worshipped. The ONLY true God is all-powerful and in heaven. Jesus is also in heaven with his Father but not the Almighty God that the Father is. We worship as Almighty God the Father, Jehovah. The worship we give to Jesus is what might be called a "lower level worship." He is not God Almighty but an individual that deserves respect and honor as a powerful and revered individual. He is a "god" in that manner. The Greeks of John's day understood that to be true---that "god" meant just what I posted above. Even judges and political figures and angels have been referred to as "gods."

That does not diminish Jesus' importance. He is God's Son and has done all that the Father told him to do. (John 5:19)

Marke: Jesus is the Almighty who lived and was dead and is now alive again forever more.

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:17-19
King James Version
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Revelation 11:17
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus is the Almighty who lived and was dead and is now alive again forever more.

Jesus is never referred to as The Almighty in scripture; Almighty God cannot die.

[marke]

Jesus is the Almighty who lived and was dead and is now alive again forever more.

Jesus is never referred to as The Almighty in scripture; Almighty God cannot die.

Marke: Jesus is the Almighty spoken of in Revelation 1:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

[Revelations won]

Is it one, or is it tw?

Greeting placebofactor,

I will respond to each of your questions in order.

Post #1

by placebofactor » Sat Feb 08, 2025 1:02 pm
1
Peter 1:1, “Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ,”
How many offices does Peter hold?

My response:

Yes he was an apostle of Jesus Christ. An apostle is a special personal witness of Jesus Christ unto all the world.

He is also a friend and servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Additionally he like Jesus Christ is a great high priest forever after the order of melchisidek.

Additionally he is the prophet of the Lord and has the keys of presidency which holds the great sealing power to both seal on earth and in heaven.

( Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.)

The answer is: First he holds the high and holy calling in the priesthood of an apostle.
Second he also was given on the mount of transfiguration the keys of Presidency to administer in all ordinances of the church which includes to the sealing power keys as shown in Matthew 16:19 above..


“Isaiah 45:21, "A just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.”
Is the reference to one or two people?”

My response to the above question:

We first need to understand that Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world was laid I.e.:

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.


Mark 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

11 This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.


John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.


Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.




“Titus 2:13, “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ: who gave himself to us”
How many individuals was Paul referring to when he said, “the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ:”

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim it’s both the Father and Son who are going to appear, or is Jesus being referred to as both God and Savior as in Isaiah 45:21?

John 20:27-28, Jesus said to Thomas, “Reach hither your finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”

My response: Paul was referring to one person, Christ in his ante mortal position known as “Jehovah” and in his condescending position known as Jesus Christ.

Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.


Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Luke 11: 16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.

17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.



Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

I testify that Jesus the Christ is both savior and redeemer, King of kings and Lord of lords and the only name under heaven whereby man may be saved and exited. He is indeed our creator and now as the scriptures so state, has all power and authority in heaven and earth.