Born Again?

[Zzyzx]

.
Born Again?

Going to church for 1 week or 50 years doesn't make anybody a Christian. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN from above. They may be sincere in thinking they were once Christians, but if they didn't have the born-again experience and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit to the degree that they knew it was real, then I don't believe they were ever real Christians.

Is ER speaking for Christians generally, or is this a reflection of the beliefs of some sects or individuals?

In Christianity, born again means rebirth — namely, spiritual birth into the family of God with Jesus Christ as personal Lord and savior. This is contrasted with the first birth everyone experiences in the flesh (physical world). In the Bible, Jesus stated that only those who are born-again shall see Heaven - "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3).

The term is frequently used by Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal and some Mainline branches of Protestant Christianity. It is sometimes associated with non-denominational individuals, groups and churches.

Outside of Christianity, the term "born again" is occasionally used to describe beliefs characterised by renewal, resurgence or return.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again_Christianity

It appears as though only certain sects place great emphasis upon "born again". Does that mean that all others are "not Real Christians"?

They would have never left the faith.

Is it true that once a person is "born again" they "NEVER leave the faith"?

How can anyone be certain that they or someone else is "born again" and will never leave the faith?

I have grave reservations about the legitimacy of so many people around here claiming to be former Christians, for the same reason I mention above.

Can the clear statements by members about being Former Christians be credibly dismissed with "I have greave reservations" by someone who knows nothing about the other person's situation? Or is that a presumptuous platitude?

[myth-one.com]

Unnatural meaning by the Holy Spirit.
Can you say the same for the other
thousands of unnatural births?

Yes, we are all children of God. And God is a Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. So we are also the children of the Holy Spirit.

You are the one presenting the sin of lust.
I did not.
If a husband and wife have sex
and have a baby.
There is no sin involved.
The bed is undefiled.

Actually, James associated lust with conception:

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:15)

But the baby is still born with sin.
Guilty by association.

Whom did the baby associate with prior to his/her birth?

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:20)

There is no guilt associated between a baby and the sins of others.

[InTheFlesh]

Unnatural meaning by the Holy Spirit.
Can you say the same for the other
thousands of unnatural births?

Yes, we are all children of God. And God is a Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. So we are also the children of the Holy Spirit.

Since you totally missed my point
about the uniqueness of the birth of Jesus (God was manifest InTheFlesh)
I'm not even going to address your reply
except to say that God is ONE.

You are the one presenting the sin of lust.
I did not.
If a husband and wife have sex
and have a baby.
There is no sin involved.
The bed is undefiled.

Actually, James associated lust with conception:

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:15)

Actually, James did not say anything about sex in that verse.

But the baby is still born with sin.
Guilty by association.

Whom did the baby associate with prior to his/her birth?

Because both parents have sin
the baby is born with sin.

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:20)

There is no guilt associated between a baby and the sins of others.

You have steered this debate off topic.
What scripture have you shared to support
your theory that babies die innocent?

You are claiming that death comes to the innocent
but this is not true.
Like I said, no one died innocent.

[myth-one.com]

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:15)

Actually, James did not say anything about sex in that verse.

Lust: Sexual desire or appetite, especially when uncontrolled or illicit.

You have steered this debate off topic.
What scripture have you shared to support
your theory that babies die innocent?

_____________________________ HERE IT IS AGAIN _____________________________

Sin is the transgression of God's laws, or commandments:

For sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin:

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

If an infant dies before ever knowingly committing a sin, he or she "dies" innocent.
_______________________________________________________________________________________

You are claiming that death comes to the innocent
but this is not true.

The Bible discusses two deaths which may befall mankind, the first and the second death. The first death is that of our physical bodies as they exist now:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

Only this first "death" is appointed. The second is optional depending on our acceptance or rejection of Jesus as our Savior. Our second possible physical death is described in the book of Revelation:

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14-15)

Individuals whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death. It is very important to notice that this death is actually labeled as a death! That is, it is final and eternal. There is no recovery or return from the second death! This truly fits the definition of the word death. It is the permanent cessation of all vital life functions.

When the first death of any man is discussed in the Bible, the words used to describe that event are sleep or rest. Only man, among all the animals is said to sleep, slumber, or rest when he dies. In fact, when Jesus raised people from the dead, He often stated that they were not dead, but simply asleep:

Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11)

If true death is final, then our first death is not death at all. It does not meet the definition of death. That is, it is not permanent, because all of us will live again.

It is final to us here on the earth. That is, man cannot restore another man's life after his first death, only God can. From God's perspective, there is one true death, the second death.

So when an infant "dies" before ever knowingly committing a "sin," it dies the first death in innocence. It is dead to man's world. We cannot restore that life. To us it died and it was innocent of any sin.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Like I said, no one died innocent.

But that baby is not dead from God's standpoint, but simply sleeping or resting, and will be awakened to life again. So from God's perspective, that baby has not died in any respect -- in innocence or otherwise. In that sense, you are correct that no one has ever died innocent. Likewise, no one has ever died guilty. All humans who have "died" are resting in their graves:

Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11)

And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn... (Mark 5:39-40)

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life... (Daniel 12:2)

For we which have believed do enter into rest... (Hebrews 4:3)

And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers... (Deuteronomy 31:16)

[bambi]

"Original Sin" meaning what? The original sin of mankind was Adam & Eve eating from the tree of knowledge. It was the first time any human had ever sinned, thus it was the original sin. So the entire human raced had sinned (both of them). Sin and the wages of sin was "passed" to all of humanity:

original sin is not present in the bible. Who sinned first is it man or satan? Sin passed to all humanity. do you mean newborn already have sinned. so when they die will they be saved or not?

[myth-one.com]

"Original Sin" meaning what? The original sin of mankind was Adam & Eve eating from the tree of knowledge. It was the first time any human had ever sinned, thus it was the original sin. So the entire human raced had sinned (both of them). Sin and the wages of sin was "passed" to all of humanity:

original sin is not present in the bible. Who sinned first is it man or satan? Sin passed to all humanity do you mean newborn already have sinned so when they die will they be saved or not?

Satan sinned before man ever existed. As to mankind, Eve was first with Adam a close second. Just as Adam and Eve were created without a knowledge of sin, newborns also have no knowledge of sin. The Bible defines sin as disobeying the commandments of God. Newborns do not even know the commandments of God.

The tendency to sin is passed down through physical tendencies, desires, and weaknesses such as hunger, thirst, vanity, sexual desires, greed, hate, envy, etc, etc, etc . . .

[InTheFlesh]

Actually, James did not say anything about sex in that verse.

Lust: Sexual desire or appetite, especially when uncontrolled or illicit.

You have too many private interpretations (unsupported scriptural claims)
for me to address.
Your first claim is a reflection
of the majority of your post.
The lust mentioned in James
is not of sexual nature.
You are the one adding that major detail.

Here is proof for my claim:

Gen.3 [6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

1John.2 [16] For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

By your definition
Eve had sexual lust towards the tree!

Can you support your claim with scripture?

[myth-one.com]

Eve had sexual lust towards the tree!

Eve had a tree fetish?

[InTheFlesh]

I'm glad you can see the humor in your claims.
Time to put this one to sleep.
Have a good night!

[bambi]

Satan sinned before man ever existed. As to mankind, Eve was first with Adam a close second. Just as Adam and Eve were created without a knowledge of sin, newborns also have no knowledge of sin. The Bible defines sin as disobeying the commandments of God. Newborns do not even know the commandments of God.

The tendency to sin is passed down through physical tendencies, desires, and weaknesses such as hunger, thirst, vanity, sexual desires, greed, hate, envy, etc, etc, etc . . .

I am asking you to support your claim about original sin using verses not interpretations and conclusions

[myth-one.com]

I'm glad you can see the humor in your claims.

Lust: Sexual desire or appetite, especially when uncontrolled or illicit.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:15)

James did not say anything about sex in that verse.

Yet you read the following verse:

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (Genesis 3:6)

And conclude:

By your definition
Eve had sexual lust towards the tree!

And you call me humorous??