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Replying to Difflugia]
The Ramses Exodus theory comes from Exodus 1:11 The city Ramesses was gone by 1100 BC. so it was around for on;y 200 or so years. So early archaeologists used this as a very important {in their eyes} marker. But they started out their journey via an error. They pegged this city to have been built somewhere around 1300 BC thus that is where they looked for the Exodus. So naturally they placed the Exodus at around 1250 BC. There is no evidence of a Hebrew Semitic peoples there. But under that city there is a city called Avaris.
Tell El Daba Avaris.
Manfred Bietak, of the University of Vienna was in charge of the TELL/Dig. Its at a southern sector of the city Ramsees and they were Semitic. They were sheppards, but of course he said they were not the Israelites. They were "TOO EARLY" cough cough. And the archaeologists got their original time frame from the bible !! Thus the bible was disproving the bible. My heads spinning.
So instead of looking at the "supposed timeline" we need to look for the evidence in the land, not the evidence in the land at a pre determined time.
We need to look for these six things.
1.) The Arrival of the Semites
2.) The Multiplication of the Semites in Egypt
3.) The Semites descent into Slavery
4.) The Judgment against the nation that enslaved them {Egypt}
5.) The Semites deliverance and Exodus
6.) The Semites Conquest of Canaan
We need to look for the Patterns of Evidence. Not for a specific timeline. That's the proper scientific way.
David Rohl is an agnostic to this day, but he sees that most Egyptologists are in error on their timelines, all because they used an erroneous marker to begin with. He has no agenda. He says Avaris is the city of the Hebrew Semites. Avaris is in the land of Goshen. He says there are no Asiatics in Ramsees but if you dig down further, they are there via Avaris. So hes says when the biblical writer/editor wrote about it, naturally they called it Ramsees. {anachronism}. We can see this in the bible, in Genesis 47:11, it says Joseph went unto the Land of Ramses, well there was no Ramses when Joseph was around. Its the writer saying this city named Ramsees is where all this happened, but before there was no city there, then there was Avaris, then there was Ramsees. So in essence, their whole time line was started off of a misdiagnosis.
So Bietak digs up a city of Semites who lived their several hundreds of years, then all LEFT at the same time, that sure sounds an awful lot like the Israelite story in the bible !! Their houses were north Syrian style houses. The Syrian style house was flattened and a palace was built on top of it with 12 pillars and there were 12 graves in the back yard. So you have a Syrian Semite, living in a palace, with 12 pillars, 12 graves and there was 12 brothers. And its in a city of Semites {Avaris}. One of the 12 Graves was a Pyramid tomb. He was honored with a Kings burial, there was the Statue of a Semite with Red Hair, a Weapon on his shoulders only Semites used, and a Coat of Many Colors. He had pale yellow skin, and there was NO BONES in the grave, no one robs the bones, but Joseph, in the bible made a request that his bones be taken with the Israelites when they left. Hmmm. interesting.
There is a canal, still in use today called by Josephs name, it was used to divert the water in order to stop the famine, it dates back to the time of Avaris. This caused the Pharaoh to become VERY RICH. Dr. Bryant Woods says at this exact time Egypt was divided up into regions calked Nomes, they each kind of had Districts, so there was no super powerful "King" so to speak. But there came a time, all at once, when all the wealth and power resided with Pharaoh. the Egyptian history books he said do not explain this. But Josephs Famine would indeed explain how one man could gain all the wealth in the whole region. This of course happened in the Middle Kingdom time frame, not in the Old Kingdom time frame. Answer = Joseph's Famine Policy.
The two Middle Kingdom Pharaohs this happened under were Senusret III and his son Amenemhat III with the later being Josephs Pharaoh. Both are depicted with sad faces or worry lines on their statues {Famine} while most other Pharaohs are depicted with smiles. He built his pyramid right next to the Waterway of Joseph. So the Arrival seems set at a much earlier time as per the evidence. Josephs bones are said to be at the old town of Shechem/Nablus in the West Bank today.
The Multiplication, is there evidence of this in Avaris
Joseph dies, then the 70-100 Semites in 3-4 generations becomes one of the largest cities in the world. A city of foreigners in the delta and it was allowed by the state, at this point there was no signs of slavery. There are 20 or so settlements of Semites in the region, places yet to be excavated. So the only time that shows a huge Asiatic/Semite population is during the Middle Kingdom, which scholars discount, all because they used the bible as a reference point via the city of Ramsees, when Avaris was what they were pointing unto in actuality. Now the problem, the Egyptians saw them becoming wealthy, they saw them as a threat.
Slavery
So we had prosperity, followed by evidence of a lack of prosperity. According to Rohl one can see bone deficiencies and certain lines in the bones. Their life expectancy rates fell to 32-34 years of age. Infants were buried at a much higher rate than normal because of the order of no male babies. Nearly 50 percent of newborns died in the first three months at Avaris. Who would write a book and make up a story.......Our Ancestors were Slaves ? I mean I can see Kings, Princes or Merchants, but Slaves ? And there is an Egyptian [Brooklyn] Papyrus with a book of Slave names from that time, and 70 percent of them are Semitic names, two of the names are Tribes of Israel. These are Hebrew slaves, and they appear in the 13th Dynasty, the Middle Kingdom. The Patterns of Evidence must be followed, not a preconceived date. I remind you, this is a text, it needs not be interpreted. Aviris peoples were ENSLAVED. Evidence.
Judgment of Egypt, can that be seen at this time ?
So, did the Egyptian economies collapse at about this time ? Were all the firstborn killed ? Was the Army decimated ? Lets look at the facts/Evidence.
At the Lieden Museum/Netherlands there is an Egyptian Papyrus that seems to pint to the Judgments of the Exodus, but of course the Curator, Maarten Raven discounts it, its way to early to be the Israelite Hebrews !! Its just a coincidence, its just beautiful prose. All because they have a predetermined date in mind, that they can't be moved on.
{Papyrus} The Admonitions of an Egyptian Sage ( by Ipuwer)
Google it, then compare the Exodus details of the 10 Plagues with this mans account of what seems to be the exact same thing. He speaks of water turning into blood and bringing misery. Of the River being blood. He spoke of food shortages and nobles suffering. He says Plagues sweep the land with no shortage of deaths. There is wailing and lamentations throughout the land. He said people are stripped of clothes, the slave takes what he finds, gold, silver and turquoise are placed on female slaves necks. This document was also from the Middle Kingdom !! The Curator said the person was pretending this was a real event but he must have just imagined it.
There is a replica of a monument Rohl points to in Egypt, built shortly after Ramses that proves Israel was already a Nation established in the land of Canaan during his son Merentpah's time. The Merenptah Stela shows that Israel was a Nation a few years after Ramses death. He lists all the different conquered nations on a sort of erected tablet, the name Israel is right there. Two reeds = yee or ee, then a bolt = s and an r a mouth, an e, an a and an L. Israel. It shows it in plural, so it means a Nation or the Nation of Israel. It also says Fetky bin peret f....Israel is laid waste, his seed is no more {They had Propaganda even back then, LOL}. So this doesn't fit the pattern of tribes wandering around the desert for 40 years does it ? They seem to be a political entity, a sovereign Nation. This doesn't fit with Ramses being the Pharaoh of the Exodus !! Israel already existed as a power at his time it seems. So Ramses could't be the Pharaoh that let the Israelites go.
There is also the Berlin Pedestal in Berlin State Museum, it has names of people the Pharaoh is bragging about Conquering, and Israel is there at the very bottom, and this Inscription is dated 1360 BC, so Israel is a much older nation than the Egyptologists seem to think it seems. This makes the late date of the Exodus an impossibility. This is crucial Evidence.
There was no significance loss of power via the Army or Economic prosperity during Ramses time either, as a Judgment would bring, can we find this evidence ? Lets see !! The Bible says that the Israelites built Solomon's Temple exactly 480 years after coming out of Egypt. King Solomon began his reign in 970 BC, so that puts the Exodus well before Ramses. Hmmmm !! The Exodus seems to have been around 1450 according to that reasoning. If you are looking in the wrong time period, its going to be very hard to find the Evidence you need. So the Ramses Exodus Theory doesn't hold up.
We are still looking for an Exodus time that follows the Death of the First Born. We have shifted the Exodus timeline to 1450, but it still doesn't quite fit. Lets continue our search. So all at once the peoples of Avaris leave, the city goes to pot. At this exact time the Egyptian Civilization collapses when these foreigners invade the Hyksos Rulers, they come in and destroy the land, Egyptian rule is suppressed and they are on their knees, and this only happens once in 100 years, and its in this Middle Kingdom time period !!
An Egyptian Priest called Manetho, says that in the reign of King Dudimose, one of the last kings of the 13th Dynasty, in his reign, God smote the Egyptians,and God here is SINGULAR, instead of gods as is the ways of Egypt. During the Hyksos period marauding hordes took over the country and enslaved the Egyptians. Seeing as God smote them and their Army, they were defenseless at this time.So we seem to have the timing for a Judgment that aligns with the Arrival, then the Exodus.
The Conquest of Canaan
Once again, Archaeologists say there is no evidence matching the biblical accounts, but they are once again looking at the wrong time period, the Late Bronze Age instead of the Middle Bronze Age. Jericho was indeed destroyed by fire in the Middle Bronze Age and the walls all fell down. Just like the Bible says. And there was no long siege, the jars of food were barely used. It took 7 days of marching to Conquer Jericho, on the 8th day the walls fell down. Kenyon {woman} described the walls as having fell, and said they set the city on fire, but of course she said in the 50's this was the wrong time period. Hmmm. Only if you have a preconceived notion via a verse about Ramses. Kenyon said it was very clear, the walls had fallen as well and, get this, that the walls fell before the fire. Yet she said it must be the Egyptians who conquered Jericho. That Ramses bible verse sure has them thrown off.
Joshua conquered Jabin, king of Hazor, and burned the city. Tablets of the Middle Bronze Age has King Jabin's name on them, and Joshua, according to the bible stuck his sword in King Jabin. So all these Canaanite cities were destroyed just like the bible says, but a few hundred years before what archaeologists seem to think is the proper time, all because they are not following the evidence, but instead a date originally set by the name Ramses, found in the bible !! Go figure.
Its all there, in one nice neat line, but of course they already know better. Alan Gardiner said all we is rags and taters as far as Egyptology goes. Their problem is the Egyptian Chronology underpins much of the Mediterranean Sea Regions archaeology. All those books they have written, well they must admit they were wrong.
So in essence, we have THE ARRIVAL....the descent into SLAVERY, the JUDGMENT and COLLAPSE of Egypt, the DELIVERANCE and EXODUS of the Semitic population, and finally in Canaan evidence matching the Conquest.
Forget the dates, look at the PATTERN.
Watch the movie, Patterns of Evidence the Exodus. Its a good watch. I don't think all of these evidences are just a coincidence. They all fit together perfectly, but the time line is off. The evidence is far more important than a predetermined time line.
Sorry I was busy earlier, wifes got me doing the honey do list this week...
