Is your sin "Original"?

[polonius]

Another bible fiction which became rather pervasive in Christianity is the claim of the "stain" of Original Sin (the first sin of Adam) of which we all bear the guilt even though we were born thousand of years after it was committed.

Because we all have this "stain," a "merciful God"(?) damns the unbaptized to spend eternity suffering in hell even infants who die. Or so the story goes.

Later on it was agreed that this was rather harsh, so the unbaptized not guilty of any serious sin were consigned to 'Limbo" a state of "natural happiness" in which, however, the person is denied the beatific vision of God which was important for some reason.

Many Catholics and Protestants haven't kept up so don't realize that Pope Francis abolished it obviously because it was realized that it was a fiction.

However, the full effect of this hasn't been felt yet. The Catholic Church's "doctrine" of Mary's Immaculate Conception is also void if there is no Original Sin to begin with.

[ttruscott]

LOL! God chose to create each and every one of us (thus giving us physical life) despite the state, or condition, each one of us would be born into (spiritual death) because of Adam's sin and the resulting imputation of his unrighteousness. This is love.

This would be great as a sarcastic parody!!!

Since we have this physical life, we all are given and thus have the opportunity to be redeemed by God and thus be brought from this spiritual death to spiritual and ultimately eternal, physical life. ... This also is love, but a much greater love.

Only SOME redeemed from the evil He Created us in after a life of suffering and death - wow, if this is love I'm missing something.

[ttruscott]

As I've said many times, we don't "inherit Adam's sin." We inherit his sinful state -- that of spiritual death.

Call it whatever floats your boat, everyone has a different set of words to say the same thing, the reason we are born as sinners is GOD, is because GOD created us in Adam, is because GOD made us to inherit something evil from Adam without our assent... so...re-think.

And maybe actually deal with what I wrote instead of what seems to be a mindless parroting by rote of something you read in a theology book.

[William]

@

polonius: Another bible fiction which became rather pervasive in Christianity is the claim of the "stain" of Original Sin (the first sin of Adam) of which we all bear the guilt even though we were born thousand of years after it was committed.

William: The way I read it, Adam and Eve represent Mom and Dad. The Beginning parents.
As such, I can understand the human aspect of the situation, and can confidently say that I would have gone down the same path, if it had of been me...which it was.
To me it doesn't have to be true or false/blasphemy or non-blasphemy.
The point of Jesus was to alleviate me of the burden of being a human, by taking on the guilt of my stupidity...as a symbolic portal in which I could lay aside my guilt at the entrance of...before stepping through, guiltless.

polonius: Because we all have this "stain," a "merciful God"(?) damns the unbaptized to spend eternity suffering in hell even infants who die. Or so the story goes.


William: The curse of being human - making up ideas of GOD which 'explain' why we are 'evil'.
In the Metaphysical Realm there is little to no useful Human Data of Experience to be gathered from infants who die. The Eternal Entity which occupied the human life form, is free to go, or to choose another. Either way it has not yet had the opportunity to earn a Mansion in The House of Elohim, through a useful Human Experience.

polonius: Later on it was agreed that this was rather harsh, so the unbaptized not guilty of any serious sin were consigned to 'Limbo" a state of "natural happiness" in which, however, the person is denied the beatific vision of God which was important for some reason.

William: There are indeed such places in The Kingdom of Heaven, and some are very heavenly and some not so nice. They are created by those who occupy them.
It is true too, that they forfeit other realities to experience while they remain ignorant of such places existing to be experienced.
They require "Soul Retrievers" who are willing to go into these places and try and talk the occupants out of those places and into better places.

polonius: Many Catholics and Protestants haven't kept up so don't realize that Pope Francis abolished it obviously because it was realized that it was a fiction.

William: How do you know that is the reason why the Pope Francis cancelled it?

polonius: However, the full effect of this hasn't been felt yet. The Catholic Church's "doctrine" of Mary's Immaculate Conception is also void if there is no Original Sin to begin with.

William: The void is unavoidable. That is the darkness all go through from one Realm to another. It is The Void which scans the individual and from that, creates the individuals next reality.
There is no escaping reality, whatever it is. There is, however, a way in which one can better shape ones reality to ensure the best results...give The Void something exceptional to work with.
A Long Time Gone from Adam...through Jesus, and into the great wide open.

[PinSeeker]

As I've said many times, we don't "inherit Adam's sin." We inherit his sinful state -- that of spiritual death.

Call it whatever floats your boat, everyone has a different set of words to say the same thing, the reason we are born as sinners is GOD, is because GOD created us in Adam, is because GOD made us to inherit something evil from Adam without our assent... so...re-think.

Saying we either "inherited Adam's particular sin" and/or are "guilty of Adam's particular sin" is totally different than that we inherited Adam's sinful state/condition (that of spiritual death), which he took on because of his particular sin (just as God told him he would).

"Re-think." LOL! So, not to insult your intelligence in any way, but you're thinking on this subject is quite shallow. That's the problem.

Like I said -- and I was building on your stream of thought when I said this -- God could have chosen not to create anything or anyone -- to not give life, knowing the natural condition of all at birth. He certainly didn't have to, and He didn't need to, either. And that apparently would have been love, in your way of "thinking;" I get ya. Well, no, but like you say, whatever floats your boat.

And maybe actually deal with what I wrote instead of what seems to be a mindless parroting by rote of something you read in a theology book.

Yeah, see above. I've dealt intensely with what you wrote. That's what I've been trying to get you to do.

Grace and peace to you, ttruscott.

[PinSeeker]

LOL! God chose to create each and every one of us (thus giving us physical life) despite the state, or condition, each one of us would be born into (spiritual death) because of Adam's sin and the resulting imputation of his unrighteousness. This is love.

This would be great as a sarcastic parody!!!

Many think of the Bible that way, for sure. It's unfortunate.

Since we have this physical life, we all are given and thus have the opportunity to be redeemed by God and thus be brought from this spiritual death to spiritual and ultimately eternal, physical life. ... This also is love, but a much greater love.

Only SOME redeemed from the evil He Created us in after a life of suffering and death - wow, if this is love I'm missing something.

Yes, you are missing something. To answer this, we can hear Paul's words in Romans 9:

"You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?' On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, 'Why did you make me like this,' will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles."

[otseng]

"Re-think." LOL! So, not to insult your intelligence in any way, but you're thinking on this subject is quite shallow. That's the problem.

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[brianbbs67]

As I've said many times, we don't "inherit Adam's sin." We inherit his sinful state -- that of spiritual death.

Call it whatever floats your boat, everyone has a different set of words to say the same thing, the reason we are born as sinners is GOD, is because GOD created us in Adam, is because GOD made us to inherit something evil from Adam without our assent... so...re-think.

And maybe actually deal with what I wrote instead of what seems to be a mindless parroting by rote of something you read in a theology book.

God created Adam and Eve in His image. Fast forward to Gen 5:3. "Adam created beings in his likeness." There is a distinction made in Gen 5 between man that God made and man that man(Adam ) made.

[ttruscott]

God created Adam and Eve in His image. Fast forward to Gen 5:3. "Adam created beings in his likeness." There is a distinction made in Gen 5 between man that God made and man that man(Adam ) made.

It seems that everyone has at least one interpretation to accept what the scripture says to justify their acceptance of this blasphemy though no one will ever answer my questions as to Why GOD would ever force HIS bride (or anyone) to be evil nor how it does not contradict the verses I quoted. No one... They quote their own verses as if they can contradict each other but that is bogus too.

[William]

@77

ttruscott: Why GOD would ever force HIS bride (or anyone) to be evil

William: The way I read it, Adam and Eve represent Mom and Dad. The Beginning parents.
The GOD of The Garden didn't appear to be treating them like a good Husband would treat a Wife.
Placing temptation to test whether they were faithful or not, and finding out they were not, is setting Her up to fail, since they were already known to be sinners in relation to PCE Theology.
By your account, as I understand it, She was already doomed and not at all considered to be a suitable bride for the GOD, in the GODs own estimate. She was already evil.

Yet you also appear to claim that something worthy of being the GODs bride, comes from Her. Naturally enough, this has people scratching their heads...

As one should be aware, I too agree that we all existed prior to incarnating/being incarcerated into human forms.
We differ only in the idea that the GOD plans to incarcerate
those who are not his bride, forever in torment.
This makes the would-be husband appear to have a vindictive streak to which any whom wish to be counted as his bride, must accept.
I cannot shake the idea that such a belief about the GOD is itself, a blasphemy against his real nature...that is where we seem to disagree.

[ttruscott]

@77

ttruscott: Why GOD would ever force HIS bride (or anyone) to be evil

William: The way I read it, Adam and Eve represent Mom and Dad. The Beginning parents.
The GOD of The Garden didn't appear to be treating them like a good Husband would treat a Wife.William: The way I read it, Adam and Eve represent Mom and Dad. The Beginning parents.
The GOD of The Garden didn't appear to be treating them like a good Husband would treat a Wife.

I don't care what it seemed like to you, that it misses the mark is expected. I contend that HE treated them perfectly fairly but not in the interpretation of orthodoxy, that we inherit Adam's sin...