Is your sin "Original"?

polonius · Post by **polonius** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:43 am

Another bible fiction which became rather pervasive in Christianity is the claim of the "stain" of Original Sin (the first sin of Adam) of which we all bear the guilt even though we were born thousand of years after it was committed.

Because we all have this "stain," a "merciful God"(?) damns the unbaptized to spend eternity suffering in hell even infants who die. Or so the story goes.

Later on it was agreed that this was rather harsh, so the unbaptized not guilty of any serious sin were consigned to 'Limbo" a state of "natural happiness" in which, however, the person is denied the beatific vision of God which was important for some reason.

Many Catholics and Protestants haven't kept up so don't realize that Pope Francis abolished it obviously because it was realized that it was a fiction.

However, the full effect of this hasn't been felt yet. The Catholic Church's "doctrine" of Mary's Immaculate Conception is also void if there is no Original Sin to begin with.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:32 am

brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 97 by ttruscott]

Genesis 5 disagrees with you. Adam created men in his image.

And his image was the image (6754, tselem) of GOD. Gen 5:1 This is the written account of the descendants of Adam. When God created human beings, he made them to be like (1823. demuth) himself. says that mankind, not just Adam (adam means mankind after all) was in GOD's image. This is the same as in Gen 1:26 where image is 6754: tselem and likeness is 1823: demuth and is repeated in 5:3 Adam, who was in the image and likeness of GOD had a son who had his own image, ie also the same likeness and image of GOD.

This is reporting that we are not outside of the image of GOD just because we are now human, that we are suitable marriage partners for GOD, though we have chosen to become sinners in HIS sight.

It does not prove that our tarnished, corrupted expression of that image was inherited from Adam rather than by our own free will choice to sin before being sown into Adam's human dna line.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:30 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 97 by ttruscott]

"righteous" and "innocent" 're open to interpretation, which is why I used the word "faulty"

Were they created absolutely perfect free from any default, in short were they created perfectly reflecting God's the matchless standard God had for them at that time. At the moment of their creation were they 100% what God wanted them to be?

The purpose of GOD had a few stages of perfection that built to a final perfection. Unfinished doesn't imply faulty...

HIS end purpose was to have a marriage partner, in HIS image and holy. This necessitated that they be given a real free will choice to accept his marriage proposal or not, hence we were created perfectly able to make this choice but not in the final state we would be in after making the choice.

Level one step of creation was able to allow people to make a perfect uncoerced choice. The people who chose to proceed towards HIS perfection for them either chose to stay the course by choosing holiness or they went astray into sin, delaying their progress into the ultimate perfection of holiness and being heaven ready.

Level two entailed bringing HIS elect who went astray into sin to the perfection of holiness.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:59 am

ttruscott wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 97 by ttruscott]

"righteous" and "innocent" 're open to interpretation, which is why I used the word "faulty"

Were they created absolutely perfect free from any default, in short were they created perfectly reflecting God's the matchless standard God had for them at that time. At the moment of their creation were they 100% what God wanted them to be?
The purpose of GOD had a few stages of perfection ...

Did he have stages of 100% too?

My question wasn't about God's purpose, it was regarding these beings at the time He finished their creation and deemed them ready to exercise their free will, were they 100% as he wanted them to be at that moment?

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:36 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Did he have stages of 100% too?

My question wasn't about God's purpose, it was regarding these beings at the time He finished their creation and deemed them ready to exercise their free will, were they 100% as he wanted them to be at that moment?

Yes indeed,
at the time He finished their creation and deemed them ready to exercise their free will, they were 100% as he wanted them to be at that moment.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:38 pm

ttruscott wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
Did he have stages of 100% too?

My question wasn't about God's purpose, it was regarding these beings at the time He finished their creation and deemed them ready to exercise their free will, were they 100% as he wanted them to be at that moment?
Yes indeed,
at the time He finished their creation and deemed them ready to exercise their free will, they were 100% as he wanted them to be at that moment.

Well then I think we have very similar beliefs, God created at the very least two perfect beings and they made a free will decision not to exercise that will as he would have liked. They subsequently had to face the consequences of their decision.

Would you agree?