Is your belief in God, entirely dependent upon

[Elijah John]

Is your belief in God entirely dependent upon your belief that Jesus himself is God, the 2nd person of the Trinity?

If the arguments of skeptics here on these boards, or the arguments of Historical Jesus Scholars such as Bart Ehrmann or John Dominic Crossan, or even the arguments of Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims or Jews suddenly clicked in your mind, with a light-bulb-"aha" realization that Jesus is not God, never claimed to be God, and none of his contemporaries every called him "God", what would you do?

Would you retain your general belief in God, as Father? Would you join another religion such as Islam or Judaism? Would you attempt to salvage what you can of Chrisitanity in a unitarian (small "u" not necessarily UU) fashion?

Or would that discovery cause you to become an atheist or an agnostic?

[JehovahsWitness]

[RightReason]

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 62 by RightReason]

I don't believe I have quoted from the Jehovahs WITNESS New World Translation once in this thread. Indeed I have taken great care to referenced ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY the Catholic Douay-Rheims and the NABRE bibles to build my argumentation.

Do you have any objection to these translations?



JW

FURTHER READING: Catholic Bibles available online

New American Bible (Revised)
http://www.usccb.org/bible/books-of-the-bible/index.cfm

Douay-Rheims Online
http://www.drbo.org

New Jerusalem Bible
https://www.catholic.org/bible/books_bible.php

Vatican Archives
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... ndex/h.htm

[RightReason]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

I don't believe I have quoted from the Jehovahs WITNESS New World Translation once in this thread.

It doesn’t matter. Your theological conclusions are based upon it. This affects how you then interpret other translations. It is why you give all the interpretations you do. It wouldn’t matter what translation you use now – if you are looking for ways to deny the divinity of Christ you simply make interpretations that support that. I posted what I did to show the tweaks and twists JW’s go thru to maintain their theology.


The truth is we see the divinity of Christ throughout Scripture . . .


http://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstro ... sus-is-god


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... -to-be-god


https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/reso ... -of-christ


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... sus-is-god


And once again it is what all of Christendom taught and believed. Your religion is an off shoot of Protestantism which also believed Jesus is God. Until one person decided to break off from that branch and start up their own church -- keeping some of the original beliefs and rejecting others and on and on they fall away further and further from Christ’s established Church.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 59 by RightReason]

There is a good reason NOT to accept the Bible in it's entirety. It did not drop intact, from Heaven. It was compiled over centuries by inspired but fallible humans. AND that it was compliled before the Magisterium of the RCC even existed.

THe gift of enlightened reason, and God-given common sense is given to all who seek Wisdom, not only to those who wear eccleiastical robes.

If you want to accept the Bible in it's entirety, how do you explain the slave beating verses? Did God approve of slavery if it was practiced by the very same people he just liberated from slavery in Egypt? Smaks of human contamination, and priimitive, cultural bias.

Or, if you want to go the NT, why didn't Jesus return when he said he would? In the lifetime of his apostles? (Matthew 16.28 and many other verses)

So, let's get back to the topic. It was never "is Jesus God" though you and others haveattempted to answer the unasked question.

The question is whether your (one's) beleif in God in general is dependent on the notion that Jesus is God.

In other words, if any of us skeptics (or historical Jesus scholars) convince you that Jesus is not God, would your faith in God fall apart? And if yes, why would that need to be so?

[RightReason]

[JehovahsWitness]

if you are looking for ways to deny the divinity of Christ you simply make interpretations that support that.

Emphasis MINE


I am not looking to deny the "divinity of Christ" if you use the word in its most basic meaning. I am pointing out that the scriptures you referred to do not support the TRINITY teaching that Christ is Almighty God or that God is truine in nature. Feel free to clarify if you are not a proponent of the teaching of the trinity and are not attempting to prove it can be supported using a Catholic bible translation.

Is Jesus "divine"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 896#870896

... you simply make interpretations that support that.

Code: Select all

Are you saying it is possible to interpret certain passages of  scripture alternatively to that presented by trinitarians? 

If yes, then I will continue to present these alternatives readings based on Catholiic translations (as I have done up to this point) and let the readers decide if they find my argumentation compelling or not.

If no, why are you suggesting I will actually do so something that is impossible?









JW

[JehovahsWitness]

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstro ... sus-is-god


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... -to-be-god


https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/reso ... -of-christ


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... sus-is-god

My response to your links above is...
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com ... ex_15.html


You will see any suggestion that the bible teaches that Jesus is Almighty God and truine in nature thoroughly debunked. All the scriptures mentioned in the articles you linked to can be found therein.


JW

[polonius]

[RightReason]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

code]
Are you saying it is possible to interpret certain passages of scripture alternatively to that presented by trinitarians?
[/code]

Not correctly, but duh it is possible to incorrectly interpret something. It’s actually probable considering people come to things with pre conceptions, false information, lack of knowledge of language, language usage, history, culture, lack of knowledge of the Bible as a whole, etc. What else explains why there are over thousands of different Christian denominations? For the most part we are all using the same Bible, but many, just like you’re doing, think he can just apply personal interpretation. And poof – a new church is created!

If yes, then I will continue to present these alternatives reading based on Catholiic translations (as I have done up to this point) and let the readers decide if they find my argumentation compelling.

Knock your self out. I’m sure someone could pick up a Catholic translation and claim the Bible says it’s necessary for priests to ceremoniously wash the feet of their congregants daily, or claim the Bible justifies abortion, or claims Mary was not a virgin, or claims dancing is immoral, or claims gay marriage is fine. You name it – people either could, have, or will at some point claim these things are supported in Scripture. Good thing Jesus left One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church to safeguard and interpret Sacred Scripture to ensure we are getting it right.