Did Christ have free will?

[brianbbs67]

Did Jesus/Yeshua/whateverhisname have free will. We see him quote" the son can only do as the father has instructed". Or was he so devoted to the father it never was an issue?

So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?

[EBA]

[shnarkle]

[brianbbs67]

Glad to see this revived.

[ttruscott]

He says "not by will or effort". It isn't we who elect God, God elects us.

True enough but HE must have a reason, right? And if that reason is not based upon our faith, is it arbitrary ? which sends some to hell for no reason? And if we were elected because we put our faith in HIM and HIS Son before we sinned and were sent to earth, might not the injunction that election is "not by will or effort" be referring to the fulfillment our our election calling on earth as sinners, ie, what is usually called our conversion, is not by our work but by HIS gift of faith (our first faith returned to us by HIM releasing the grip sin has upon us) by HIS grace? That is, that our election has nothing to do with our works on earth after we are born in our sins does not preclude that it might have been a response to our faith pre-earth.

[ttruscott]

When one knows all of the factors that go into making a decision, they know what decision will be made. When one knows what is the best decision to make, there is no decision to make. Then they are truly free from ignorance, foolishness, bondage, etc.

You are right again. But since no one can possibly be truly free from ignorance, foolishness, bondage, etc. on earth, this is one of the reasons I reject that those enslaved to sin can have a free will.

Have you considered that
IF you know the inevitable outcome of your decision as pertaining to every option that your free will has been abrogated? If you are faced with two doors, one with a tiger waiting for his dinner and the other leading to the path to life, do you have a choice? Not if you know nothing about tigers and life. Even if you are told there is a tiger somewhere and life somewhere, do you have a choice? No, I'd say not really because all you can do is guess, ie, make an uninformed or non-educated decision about which door to choose.

But if you were told that the left door had a tiger and the right door led to life do you have a choice? Yes, you can choose to believe the person telling you this or not, to trust him or not to trust him. Putting your faith in this person or not putting your faith in this person becomes the issue and that decision you can freely make.

BUT if the person lets you peek through the doors and you see the tiger (hell) and the path out (heaven), can we say we have a free will to choose? I must answer no we do not because our knowledge has forced us to choose to go right, not left no matter what we might have been personally inclined to do before we peeked.

In other words, to make a free will decision to accept GOD at HIS word or to reject HIM as a liar, we cannot have proof of the consequences of either option or our free will would be overwhelmed by the proof and we would be forced to choose HIM no matter how much we were inclined to reject HIS claims before we saw the proof.

[marco]

If you are faced with two doors, one with a tiger waiting for his dinner and the other leading to the path to life, do you have a choice? Not if you know nothing about tigers and life.

We have a choice in the example you give. In life we regularly have such choices, for we don't know what lies ahead. We choose to be a teacher rather than a lawyer but we don't know the consequences of our choice - but that has nothing to do with the fact we choose.

We are thrown down at birth and we will eventually perish; we had no say over our birth and little over our death. But inside a wide range we are free to choose thousands of times in our life. For most that is enough to term free will.


If Christ were a man like everyone else, he too would have enjoyed free will. But he was like a man locked in a cell, unable to see the sun. I think the poor chap did not enjoy free will - at least according to the tales. He was fashioned by God to move inexorably to his crucifixion..... and cause Jews loads of trouble.

[dio9]

Did Jesus/Yeshua/whateverhisname have free will. We see him quote" the son can only do as the father has instructed". Or was he so devoted to the father it never was an issue?

So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?

Of course he had free will , he was a man, 100% that means he had free will. We are making a mistake if we think Jesus was not completely one of us.

[EBA]

[ttruscott]

If you are faced with two doors, one with a tiger waiting for his dinner and the other leading to the path to life, do you have a choice? Not if you know nothing about tigers and life.

We have a choice in the example you give. In life we regularly have such choices, for we don't know what lies ahead.

Sure, I do know that technically it is a choice when we choose but in this case the kind of choice resembles a GUESS more than anything else.

[marco]

Of course he had free will , he was a man, 100% that means he had free will. We are making a mistake if we think Jesus was not completely one of us.

There is no "of course" in it. He may have been an ordinary preacher with a belief conceived late in his life that he was being guided by heaven. We know how powerful preachers on a mission can be.


If we go by the surrounding mythology of angels and celestial implantations, he was a humanoid on some sort of mission to get himself killed to save the Incas, Aztecs, Chinese and some Laplanders. It makes little sense but billions subscribe to it. Given he was ordained to walk to his death, he was deprived of free will. He didn't need it. His will belonged to the Father who had made the generous donation of his son to show his love of earthlings.