What does it take to be "washed in the blood"?

[Elijah John]

For debate:

1) What does it take to become "washed in the blood"? To be covered by Jesus sacrifice. Does being "bloodwashed" cover all one's sins, past present and future?

Just after the Lord's Prayer in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus said:

14.For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly father will also forgive you, 15.but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive you.

.

2) In verse 15, did Jesus make an exception for those "washed in the blood"?

3) How do these verses from Matthew 6 fit with the Pauline doctrine of being "washed in the blood"?

Please answer any combination of the above.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

'Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.'

Also

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Are you poor in spirit?

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Are you pure in heart?

Be honest

What is your point in asking "Are you....?"

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

'Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.'

Also

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Are you poor in spirit?

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Are you pure in heart?

Be honest

What is your point in asking "Are you....?"

Ej often argues that God is merciful and quotes the verse he does as if that is sufficient to expect salvation. So i went looking at the beatitudes he is quoting from and want to know if he accepts the other verses as well. I suspect not and therefore i am highlighting EJs quote mining.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

'Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.'

Also

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Are you poor in spirit?

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Are you pure in heart?

Be honest

What is your point in asking "Are you....?"

Ej often argues that God is merciful and quotes the verse he does as if that is sufficient to expect salvation. So i went looking at the beatitudes he is quoting from and want to know if he accepts the other verses as well. I suspect not and therefore i am highlighting EJs quote mining.

This thread is not about me. Do you think youi could re-formulate your questions and make them less perssonal?

You accuse me of quote mining. Fair enough, guilty. I would say that conventional, orthodox Pauline Christians do the same. In fact the RCC and it's offshoots (Evangelical Protestantism) are based on quote mining. Mostly from John and Paul at the expense of the Synoptics, Also at the expense of the Hebrew Bible, other than to demonstrate that Christ "fulfilled prophecy". If it weren't for that, would Christianity as we know it have any use for the "Old" Testament? Other than a preamble to the New?

One of the missions of this thread was, in fact, to highlight the quote mining so many Evangelicals and other Trinitarians engage in. Downplaying or outright ignoring verses such as Mathew 6,14, and many of the lessons of Jesus in general, in order to point to the theology of Paul for salvation.

"Washed in the blood" primary amoung these Pauline notions which are at odds with what Jesus actually taught. The call for simple repentance and trust in a merciful Father.

[brianbbs67]

I think the verses in the OP say it all. If we are to be forgiven, how can we not forgive? Its the whole imitation of Christ thing. Is not that "The Way" to the narrow gate?

[Wootah]

I think the verses in the OP say it all. If we are to be forgiven, how can we not forgive? Its the whole imitation of Christ thing. Is not that "The Way" to the narrow gate?

Yes to the narrow gate but how does one get through it?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

'Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.'

Also

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Are you poor in spirit?

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Are you pure in heart?

Be honest

What is your point in asking "Are you....?"

Ej often argues that God is merciful and quotes the verse he does as if that is sufficient to expect salvation. So i went looking at the beatitudes he is quoting from and want to know if he accepts the other verses as well. I suspect not and therefore i am highlighting EJs quote mining.

Why do you suppose that the other Beattitudes would undermine the "Blessed are the merciful" one?

Also, in the future, do you think you could formulate your questions in less personal terms? Without speculation on what I do or do not accept? That would be a bit more civil. Thank you.

Ironic, one of the missions of this OP was to highlight quote mining as practiced by Conventional, Trinitarian and Evangleical Christianity.

Such as ignoring or downplaying Matthew 6.14,(thank you Tam, for that reference), which reads:

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

That verse and the "blessed are the merciful" beattitude are refutations of your statement from post 3:

if you do not forgive others does not mean that God will forgive you.

.

You acknowledge Matthew 6.15*, but ignore Matthew 6.14 in order to make your point. How is that not quote mining?

So this reciprocal forgiveness passage does indeed mean that if we forgive others, the Father will forgive us. That is what Jesus taught. Maybe not what Paul taught, but it is certainly what Jesus taught.

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*you may or may not acknowledge what the passage plainly states, but I still don't see how you reconcile those verses with Paul's substitutionary blood-atonement theology. Forgiveness is taught in the SotM passage, but no mention of the need of blood offering in order to do so. Why do you think that is?

Was Jesus leaving it up to Paul to interpret his upcoming crucifixion, or to tie that crucifixion to the forgiveness of sins? Something Jesus, if he ever did so, only did so in passing.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

'Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.'

Also

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Are you poor in spirit?

Not exactly sure what Jesus meant by that one. The comparable Beattitude in Luke reads simply "blessed are the poor and is contrasted to one of Jesus "woes", "Woe to you who are rich..".

The Beattitude "blessed are the poor in spirit is quote-mined to the point of neglecting the Luke version, as it would not support the "prosperity Gospel" agenda of some Evangelicals.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

'Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.'

Also

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Are you poor in spirit?

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Are you pure in heart?

Be honest

The verse could be interpreted as it usually is to mean "whole-hearted" without ulterior motives. Innocent and without guile. Fully commited to God.

If so, none of us does that perfectly. But that in no way invalidates or undermines the "Blessed are the merciful" Beatitude.

But I read Jesus statement "Blessed are the pure in heart as a contrast to the prideful who boast in their ritual purity observance and look down on others as "unclean". It is always the heart which matters to Jesus, and ,(as Jesus taught), to God.

[tam]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

'Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.'

Also

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Are you poor in spirit?

Not exactly sure what Jesus meant by that one. The comparable Beattitude in Luke reads simply "blessed are the poor and is contrasted to one of Jesus "woes", "Woe to you who are rich..".

The Beattitude "blessed are the poor in spirit is quote-mined to the point of neglecting the Luke version, as it would not support the "prosperity Gospel" agenda of some Evangelicals.

Poor in spirit (meaning holy spirit; knowing that you are poor in this spirit and need to seek this spirit), as opposed to those who may think that they are rich (in spirit) and need no more. Why would such ones feel that they need to come to Christ to receive this (or more of this) gift, this spirit, this water of life? Such ones who think that they are rich already, leave little or no room to be given anything or to even think that they need anything; they do not even seek it because they think they already have it (or at least that they have enough of it).

The poor in spirit would know that they need to seek and ask and come to Christ, to receive holy spirit so that they can be rich; enough that the spirit overflows in them, even.


“If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. Whoever believes in Me, just as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water’� will flow from within him." He was speaking about the spirit, which those who believed in Him were later to receive. For the spirit had not yet been given, because [Jesus] had not yet been glorified.


"But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life."



May anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"

(which water IS holy spirit, poured out from Christ Jaheshua, as He received without end from His Father)



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 18 by tam]

Humility, and the realization that we all need God. I can go with that interpretation too.