Why didnt Jesus like the pharisees?

[Wootah]

If the law is enough why didnt Jesus like the pharisees?

Why didnt jesus tell the young man, 'well done for following the law i'll see you in heaven'?

[Willum]

Well, if we apply Willum's law of propaganda, the explanation is clear.

Jesus didn't like the Pharisee because they were, at the time, directing subversion and insurrection against the Roman Empire.

Something Jesus was a loud supporter of...
Paying it taxes.
Obeying its pagan rule.
and so on...

[Elijah John]

Well, if we apply Willum's law of propaganda, the explanation is clear.

Jesus didn't like the Pharisee because they were, at the time, directing subversion and insurrection against the Roman Empire.

Something Jesus was a loud supporter of...
Paying it taxes.
Obeying its pagan rule.
and so on...

Were all of the Pharisees advocating rebellion against Rome? Seems some, at least, were allied with the Temple puppets of Rome.

[tam]

Peace to you,

If the law is enough why didnt Jesus like the pharisees?

Because the Pharisees went beyond the law (meaning the written law of Moses); the chose to add numerous burdensome oral traditions. Theses traditions violated the principles upon which the written law was based and made the lives of ordinary working people difficult.

JW

Indeed. Some modern religions do the exact same thing (adding numerous burdens and rules upon the people, things Christ Himself did not put upon them).


Peace again to you and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I agree.

Jesus said nothing about which day of the week to worship.

Jesus said nothing about not eating meat on Friday.

Jesus said nothing about forbidding marriage for ministers, passing collection plates during services, charging for conducting religious weddings, funderals or bible instruction.

He did not wear special garb. Authorize anyone to mediate prayer except himself, tell his followers to celebrate his birth.

Neither did he burden his followers to isolate themselves either in remote locations or in busy cities without brotherhood and regular fellowship with fellow believers.

These things and so very much more...

Yes, some of those things and also things like these:


Telling people they are not permitted to drink.

Telling people they are not permitted to smoke.

Telling people how they must groom themselves (ie, facial hair or no facial hair, specific clothing for women or men, etc)

Telling people they are not permitted to celebrate birthdays.

Requiring specific vows at baptism.

Requiring one person to shun another person, and not permitting them to show mercy instead... despite the words "I desire mercy, not sacrifice". Showing the same lack of understanding of what it means that God desires mercy and not sacrifice, as the Pharisees showed when Christ told them to go and learn what that MEANS.


Requiring children (adult children)to shun their parents and vice versa.


ETC.



Not to mention stating that a person doing some of the above (such as smoking) means that person is not acceptable to God, and imposing sanctions for doing such things (such as shunning and disfellowshiping).



As you said, there are certainly more things than just these. But if a person is going to list those things that OTHER religions do, they might want to be sure that their OWN religion doesn't do the same. Most of the things I listed that meet the same criteria are from the JW religion.





"Come out of her, my people!"


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

If the law is enough why didnt Jesus like the pharisees?

Why didnt jesus tell the young man, 'well done for following the law i'll see you in heaven'?

Read the 23rd chapter of Matthew and Jesus explains it.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 6 by tam]

Hi Tammy.

Yes, the Prophets spoke of the Messiah, and that could be interpreted as Jesus, but that was not their main function. The main function of the prophets was not to predict the future, but rather to speak for God, to be His mouthpiece.

And the message of God through is Prophets was most often calls to repentance.

And don't forget, the character in parable used by Jesus to convey the message of repentance was Abraham, who was speaking from Heaven. Abraham of the parable, and though this means Jesus, was directing people to the Law and Prophets for the purpose of saving repentance. Isn't the implication that the teachings of Moses and the Prophets were sufficient for salvation?

They didn't teach the importance of "belief in the Messiah's ultimate death and resurrection in order to pay for the sins of humanity" except, perhaps arguably, in Isaiah 53. But even that's a stretch, as there are details in that passage which do not apply to Jesus.

Where do conventional Christians get the notion that the Law must be kept perfectly, (with no sin ever in one's life) in order to obtain salvation? Nowhere, except perhaps, from Paul. Conventional, Pauline Christians who advance this view speak as though there was no provision for repentance and forgiveness in the "Old" Testament.

It's a false dichotomy, either keep the Law perfectly for every moment of one's life, or believe that Jesus "died to pay for your sins" and kept the law perfectly for you, in order to be saved.

True, the prophets were God's mouthpiece. Jesus was the main one. Repentance was paramount, and it was necessary to be able to unhypocritically follow Christ. It is the same today, of course.

You say Abraham was speaking from heaven? First of all, Abraham didn't go to heaven. (John 3:13) Secondly, in the parable that mentioned Abraham, Abraham pictured Jehovah, not Jesus.

The Scriptures bring out that keeping the Law was not sufficient for salvation. The nation was dedicated to Jehovah and they followed the Law as well as they could when they came out of Egypt, as long as Moses didn't stay too long away from them , but they couldn't measure up. That's why Jehovah gave them specific instructions on sacrificing animals. There were sin offerings that had to be made.

There are really no details in Isaiah 53 that do not apply to Jesus. We have discussed this before, and no one had any refutation for my comments.

There was provision for God's pardon in the O.T., but the Law also pointed forward to the Messiah and what he must do for lasting salvation. No person can keep the Law perfectly because we all inherited sin from Adam. Paul explains this, and what he says was condoned by Jesus and Jehovah, or it wouldn't be in the Bible.....half of the New Testament.

"When Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come to pass, through the greater and more perfect temple not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, he entered, no, not with the blood of goats and young bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time into the holy place and obtained an everlasting deliverance for us." (Hebrews 9:11,12)

[onewithhim]

Well, if we apply Willum's law of propaganda, the explanation is clear.

Jesus didn't like the Pharisee because they were, at the time, directing subversion and insurrection against the Roman Empire.

Something Jesus was a loud supporter of...
Paying it taxes.
Obeying its pagan rule.
and so on...

He would have been a "loud supporter" of any of the nations' rules. He knew that God allowed the nations to rule the earth for a specified time, and his followers should respect the authority of whatever nation they happened to be in, or there would be chaos. He also said to render unto God's the things that are God's, meaning that if the laws of the land told the people to do something that contradicted God's laws and principles, then they wouldn't do that.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 16 by onewithhim]

A Roman authority was a pagan authority.
If Jesus supported any government, he blasphemed.
Ah, well.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Wootah]

Jesus didn't like the Pharisees because you can't start a new movement unless you try to invalidate the old one.

He never disagreed with the law, but simply added to it as was the case with the "rich young ruler" which you referred to. His answer wasn't that the law was invalid, but that you have to do even more.

His response was basically, sure you've kept the law, but I require more works than that. You need to give everything.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]

So since none of us love god or our neighbours enough - how often do you repent?

Sometimes i rhink simple repentance is like a very insincere neighbour that steals apples from your apple tree and then apologises. What is the sincere repentance worth when they take another apple the next day ... and the next day ... ad nauseum?

[Wootah]

If the law is enough why didnt Jesus like the pharisees?

Why didnt jesus tell the young man, 'well done for following the law i'll see you in heaven'?

I don't see Jesus as disliking pharisees but rather as seeing them as old wine bags that couldn't hold his new wine.
Jesus saw that just following the Law wasn't enough Jesus told his disciples the needed to be greater than the righteous pharisees.

Matt. 5:20
"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Does anyone on this forum think they are righteous enough to enter the kingdom of heaven?