Did Christ have free will?

[brianbbs67]

Did Jesus/Yeshua/whateverhisname have free will. We see him quote" the son can only do as the father has instructed". Or was he so devoted to the father it never was an issue?

So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?

[EBA]

According to the Bible your accusation against God that He is in any way evil is unscriptural.

I never said God is evil; that is an assumption on your part.

God, however, is the creator of evil:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isa 45:7)

Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. (Jos 23:15)

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amo 3:6)

[EBA]

In the creation of the Earth in Genesis there is no mention of God creating something to tempt us.
The perfect and just Jehovah God would never create an evil being to tempt us.

I guess we need to go over this again:

And when the tempter (that’s Satan) came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. (Mat 4:3)

And did God create Satan? Why yes he did:

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (Gen 3:1)

Second witness:

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. (Job 26:13)

And is Satan that serpent? Again, yes Satan is that serpent:

So down the great dragon was hurled, THE ORIGINAL SERPENT, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth,- (Rev 12:9)

The Bible says of Satan,"Your heart became haughty because of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor."

No the Bible does not say that, you do. There is no Satan within those quotation marks?

We’ve already been over this in post 35 but I’ll state it again:

You are ripping scripture out context, that being about the King of Tyrus, and applying it to Satan. Can you explain just how you are able to do that when you teach that “context is so important?�

You say God doesn't tempt us but you say He created something to tempt us...

God does not tempt us:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted (enticed) with evil, neither tempteth (entice) he any man: (James 1:13)

that would mean God is tempting us by way of commandment to another being.

Again God does not tempt us, but yes, he tests us and uses another being to tempt us:

And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. (Job 1:12)

God is the Father of spirits:

And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. AND HE SAID, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: GO FORTH, and DO SO.
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. (1Ki 22:22-23)

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? (Heb 12:9)

Through those spirits he tests us:

For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. (Heb 12:10)

[EBA]

God does not tempt, however God created a spiritual being just for that purpose:

Certainly you can see your statement above is a paradox and a paradox can't exist.

Certainly Not!

We’ve just seen in the last two posts, through scripture and not my opinion, that God created Satan the tempter, that God creates evil and that God uses Satan to test us, whereby Satan tempts us.

You claim:

I avoid many sins every day by choice. Admittedly I have also dived head first into sin by choice, through my own desire.

So you lead yourself into temptation and you deliver yourself from evil do you?

According to Christ it is the Father who leads us into temptation and the Father who delivers us from evil:

Our Father which art in heaven,- -lead us not into temptation,(Mat 6:9 and 13)

Our Father which art in heaven,- -deliver us from evil:(Mat 6:9 and 13)

We’ve already seen how this works with Job, but let’s take a look at how Christ was led into temptation:

And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. (Mar 1:12

Second witness:

And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, (Luk 4:1)

Third witness:

Then Jesus was led by the spirit up into the wilderness - (Mat 4:1)

And why was Christ “led up of the Spirit into the wilderness?�-

-TO BE TEMPTED BY THE DEVIL. (Mat 4:1) - thats why.

God knows what is in our hearts and he knows exactly what choice we’re going to make before we do.

The breath of a man is the lamp of Jehovah, Searching through his innermost being. (Pro 20:27)

And as you can see from above God does not do the tempting.

Again, God tests us and that is a good thing:

Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee. (Deu 8:5)

For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. (Heb 12:10)

God Bless.

[Claire Evans]

Did Jesus/Yeshua/whateverhisname have free will. We see him quote" the son can only do as the father has instructed". Or was he so devoted to the father it never was an issue?

So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?

I think this means that Jesus has no power unless it comes from the Father. He can do nothing on His own.

Jesus did have free will. He shared human experiences. But He loved the Father so much that we only wanted to do the will of the Father.

[imhereforyou]

[Replying to post 150 by EBA]


However, if God created everything (everything sprung from him) then he is indeed, at least in part, evil it would appear.
God would everything. It's even said god is "all things to all men" (rather or not that biblically reference).

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 151 by EBA]

You gutted and ignored every scripture in my post. Let me simplify so that you can't removed them again. without removing the entire post.

Speaking of Satan, God said,
"You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you." Ezekiel 28:15.

"Your heart became haughty because of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor." Ezekiel 28:17

"You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created." Satan was created faultless not evil or do you think these scriptures are lying?

"When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.� For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone." James 1

'For with evil things God cannot be tried' that would include Satan. You can't convince me from not believing the Bible.

[ttruscott]

To me, any time anyone claims to be 'following the father's will' or 'the masters plan', they void their own free will.

Please explain how someone CANNOT choose by their free will to exactly follow the Father's will?? Holy means to be dedicated to GOD. A holy free will is then a free will that is totally dedicated to serving GOD's wishes and being in accord with HIS Nature.

They are not forced to choose to do HIS will, they choose to do so, so their free will is not void at all but realized in every decision.

[ttruscott]

In the creation of the Earth in Genesis there is no mention of God creating something to tempt us.
The perfect and just Jehovah God would never create an evil being to tempt us.

I guess we need to go over this again:

And when the tempter (that’s Satan) came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. (Mat 4:3)

And did God create Satan? Why yes he did:

GOD created everybody. Then they re-created their characters as evil by rebelling against GOD by their free will.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

Had made, refers to their creation, not their character being created as evil.

By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. (Job 26:13)

And is Satan that serpent? Again, yes Satan is that serpent:

HE created the person who would become the serpent by his own free will, not evil by HIS creation.

Why go over it again? You really think that you can retell the story to be totally opposite the whole tenor and import of 6,000 years and all of Jewry and Christianity will bow to your perspicacity?

[EBA]

You gutted and ignored every scripture in my post. Let me simplify so that you can't removed them again. without removing the entire post.

No, actually, if you reread post 151 you'll see I did not gut and ignore every scripture in your post.

Let me simplify so that you can't removed them again. without removing the entire post.

I didn't remove your post - it is still there. Just because I didn't add your post to mine doesn't mean I removed it nor does it mean I ignored it.

Speaking of Satan, God said,

That is your opinion.

This is scripture:

"You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you." Ezekiel 28:15.

"Your heart became haughty because of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor." Ezekiel 28:17

Your opinion ADDED to scripture does not make a spiritual truth.

"You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created." Satan was created faultless not evil or do you think these scriptures are lying?

No, I think you are; you said back in post 29:

Context in scripture is so important.

So, in context, who is the "You" in Eze 28:15?

And in context, of course, whose "heart became haughty" and who was "corrupted" in Eze 28:17?

Now this is the third time I've asked you to explain, in context, just who Ezekial was speaking of. Not once have you answered that question, yet you say I ignore you.

"When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.� For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone." James 1

'For with evil things God cannot be tried' that would include Satan. You can't convince me from not believing the Bible.

Why would you you accuse me of such a thing? I pray to God that you do believe the Bible.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by brianbbs67]

The older philosophers defined free will as the ability to pursue "the good".

So, if Jesus was one with his father's will, then yes. He was fully capable of doing what he wished, which was his father's will, which was the good.