Islam v. Islam

[keithprosser3]

To this outsider the Islamic world seems to be fighting at least two internal wars;
one is between Conservative Islamism and Secularist Modernism the other between Shia and Sunni. Islam is not targetting the west - we are just caught in the crossfire of their internal wars. We probably suffer less than one might expect given the level of our interference in the Islamic world.

The level of violence shows that Islamism has been driven to extremes to hang on against reformism. I don't think that hard-line Islamism has much future. It is simply not suited to the modern world - it cannot survive in a world where the internet and MTV connect people and inform and educate them. We see in Egypt that Muslims today certainly do not want to abandon Islam, but they do not want it in the extreme form represented by the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood.

I wouldn't say the 'moderation' of Islam is imminent, nor even certain in the foreseeable future. I am saying that much of the violence we see is due to the conflict between conservatism and modernism in Islam.

The other conflict between Shia and Sunni I think can be viewed as a proxy war between Shia Iran and Sunni Saudi Arabia, each striving to dominate the Islamic world. It is hard to see how we can have any influence over that conflict - at least not for the better.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

Ahhh… It’s so funny when people keep getting Hudood Penalties and Shariah mixed up.

It isn't funny to 'apostates' being killed.

As an apostate myself I have a personal stake in that. But I still must point out that what you have described is a small portion of Shariah, called Hudood — which does not represent all of shariah.

It would be akin to talking about nothing except the Death Penalty when people mention Western Law and Cultural Etiquette.

[Dantalion]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7233040.stm

"Jewish courts are in daily use in Britain, and have been for centuries."

How messed up is that?

Really that's all you have to respond with ?
I didn't know this topic was about Jews.
But to answer your question, not messed up at all.

Also, it's best to inform yourself about what the huge differences are in jurisdiction when it comes to Jewish and Sharia courts.
Jewish courts don't have economical, ecological, military, criminal jurisprudence and it's rulings tend not to violate the declaration of human rights.

[Dantalion]

IF the number of racists is growing it's only out of reaction to the extreme amounts violence carried out in Islam's name.

Despite the repeated refrain of Islamophobes being: “Islam is NOT a race, it’s a religion!�?

I don't care about what you call 'Islamophobic' it's a bogus term.

Also to an actual racist it doesn't really matter, when nearly all Arabs are Muslims racists aren't going to differentiate.

[Dantalion]

Ahhh… It’s so funny when people keep getting Hudood Penalties and Shariah mixed up.

It isn't funny to 'apostates' being killed.

As an apostate myself I have a personal stake in that. But I still must point out that what you have described is a small portion of Shariah, called Hudood — which does not represent all of shariah.

It would be akin to talking about nothing except the Death Penalty when people mention Western Law and Cultural Etiquette.

No it wouldn't.
When western countries have death penalties for being gay, come back to me.
It's one thing to have harsh punishments, it's another to have them for ridiculous 'crimes', like being raped.
Nobody is crying about 'omg they have a death penalty'

[Goat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7233040.stm

"Jewish courts are in daily use in Britain, and have been for centuries."

How messed up is that?

Really that's all you have to respond with ?
I didn't know this topic was about Jews.
But to answer your question, not messed up at all.

Also, it's best to inform yourself about what the huge differences are in jurisdiction when it comes to Jewish and Sharia courts.
Jewish courts don't have economical, ecological, military, criminal jurisprudence and it's rulings tend not to violate the declaration of human rights.

It seems, in Britain, the Sharia courts often do rulings and try for powers that by law, it does not have, using the powers of social and religious pressure.
Of course, it does not have the legal authority to enforce those decisions.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rxfjt

[keithprosser3]

Same BBC programme I linked to I think.

Criticisms of Sharia Councils are valid - upto a point. However I see that as meaning that they need to be brought fully into the fold of British justice. I am afraid that the atmosphere of mutual distrust between Muslims and non-Muslims hardly encourages Muslims to go to outsider institutions.

We don't need to ban Sharia councils which would be divisive and inflammatory; we just need better ones - that way everybody wins.

[Dantalion]

Same BBC programme I linked to I think.

Criticisms of Sharia Councils are valid - upto a point. However I see that as meaning that they need to be brought fully into the fold of British justice. I am afraid that the atmosphere of mutual distrust between Muslims and non-Muslims hardly encourages Muslims to go to outsider institutions.

We don't need to ban Sharia councils which would be divisive and inflammatory; we just need better ones - that way everybody wins.

I don't want a group that tries to veil my girlfriend and hate my gay friend 'winning' in any way, shape or form.
They can take their barbaric ideology back to the desert it came from.
Atmosphere of mutual distrust lol, how about we start by not stoning raped women to death huh, does that seem like a good common ground to you or is that too detrimental to the atmosphere of trust ?

[East of Eden]

Ahhh… It’s so funny when people keep getting Hudood Penalties and Shariah mixed up.

It isn't funny to 'apostates' being killed.

As an apostate myself I have a personal stake in that. But I still must point out that what you have described is a small portion of Shariah, called Hudood — which does not represent all of shariah.

It would be akin to talking about nothing except the Death Penalty when people mention Western Law and Cultural Etiquette.

Yes, Sharia Law is also about the oppression of women, and is essentially gender apartheid.

[keithprosser3]

I don't want a group that tries to veil my girlfriend

I don't think you even have a girlfriend.

[otseng]

I don't think you even have a girlfriend.

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