Hugo Chavez and "Bolivarism"

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The Persnickety Platypus
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Hugo Chavez and "Bolivarism"

Post #1

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

Split from the Pat Robertson thread...



He is a public figure making good money with his insane rantings.


And feeding and clothing the poor.
Which is would explain his opposition to Chavez, a man who (*gasp*) uses his country's massive oil profits to support the needy!

Doubling the Venezualan weekly minimum wage?!?! We Christians cannot stand for this abomination!

Put good old Hugo in charge of Pat's profits. Poverty would be abolished overnight.




But seriously, we all know the real reason Robertson despises Chavez. Don't pretend you don't. All that precious oil money could be going to US corporations, who would be further equipted to continue their highly successful plight of screwing over the American people. Don't let his preaching of "moral values" fool you, all any true Right-Winger wants is to further fatten our friendly American corporate overlord's wallets.
So, why don't the Bush Administration and the right-wing extremists and religious fanatics in the U.S. like Hugo Chavez? Venezuela, after all, supplies the U.S. with 12 per cent of its imported oil and sits on top of the eighth largest known oil field in the world.

Oil is the problem — not that Venezuela has it, but what Hugo Chavez does with it. Rather than gratuitously fatten the profit margins of the international oil companies, the Venezuelan government under Chavez extracts higher taxes and fees from those companies, and plows that money back into the people of Venezuela. He facilitates the formation of grassroots organizations and worker cooperatives amongst Venezuela's poor.


He has increased the minimum wage from about $25 per week to about $40 per week, and raised personal income taxes up to a rate of 10-15 per cent. He has established food programs to feed the poor and traded oil to Cuba for doctors and teachers who provide free health care to the poor and enhanced educational opportunities. He has used oil wealth to increase public works in order to provide more jobs for Venezuelans.

Imagine, using national resources to improve the national society and raise living standards for the poorest citizens. Imagine increasing access to education, health care and affordable food. It flies in the face of modern, corporate capitalism and the demand for ever lower costs for resources and labour.

And, as far as the U.S. and its corporate sponsors are concerned, it sets a bad example for the rest of Latin America. Imagine if Chavez's programs of redirecting wealth to the people of the countries where it is produced rather than letting it be sucked out by foreign investors should catch on. That is the other part of the problem.

Chavez has named his political and social philosophy Bolivarianism and is pursuing a Bolivarian Revolution, not just for Venezuela but for most of South America. The name comes from that of Simon Bolivar who liberated what are now Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Columbia and Venezuela from Spain in the early 19th Century. In this century Chavez is providing support to populist movements in neighbouring countries, a move clearly designed to spread his Bolivarian philosophy throughout the South American continent.

He is making oil deals with Brazil and Argentina and advocating Latin American military and trade alliances to challenge the power of the U.S. in the region. Venezuela, too, is the major partner in a Latin American satellite television network, Telesur, along with Argentina, Cuba and Uruguay, which will provide a counter point to the messages broadcast to South America by U.S. networks like CNN.

Chavez is plainly becoming a regional leader in an area long dominated by U.S. influence and interference. Like Simon Bolivar before him, who challenged the rule of the Spanish, Chavez has become a challenge in the region to the power of the United States.
As you can see, a truly evil man.
Last edited by The Persnickety Platypus on Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #41

Post by Curious »

Man, this thread is like something out of the twilight zone!

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The Persnickety Platypus
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Post #42

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

Yeah, it is pretty scary.



I've found the jackpot. A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE US AND OTHER RICH NATIONS

INCOME INEQUALITY
As mentioned earlier, America has the greatest inequality of income and wealth in the industrialized world:

Inequality of income (0 = most equal society, 100 = the least equal):

United States 99
Canada 83
Netherlands 82
Switzerland 79
United Kingdom 78
Germany 66
Norway 60
Sweden 60

Average CEO's pay as a multiple of an average
worker's pay:

United States 17.5 (More)
United Kingdom 12.4
Japan 11.6
Canada 9.6
France 8.9
Germany 6.5

Percent of Union Membership in Workforce:

Sweden 85.3%
United Kingdom 41.5
Canada 34.6
Germany 33.8
Japan 26.8
Netherlands 25.0
United States 16.4

Size of Middle Class (More):

Japan 90.0%
Sweden 79.0
Norway 73.4
Germany 70.1
Switzerland 67.2
Netherlands 62.5
Canada 58.5
United Kingdom 58.5
United States 53.7

Poverty level (More):

United States 17.1%
Canada 12.6
United Kingdom 9.7
Switzerland 8.5
Germany 5.6
Sweden 5.3
Norway 5.2

Children under the poverty level:

United States 22.4%
Canada 15.5
United Kingdom 9.3
Switzerland 7.8
Sweden 5.0
Germany 4.9
Norway 4.8

Deaths from malnutrition (per million):

Men Women
United States 7 13
France 4 9
Canada 5 7
Japan 2 1
United Kingdom 1 2
Norway 0 1

Head Start (percent of age group enrolled in preschool)

2-year olds 3-year olds 4-year olds
France 35.7% 96.3 100
Norway 22.8 31.6 44.1
Finland 20.2 16.0 19.6
Germany 9.1 32.3 71.6
United Kingdom 1.3 25.9 69.2
United States 0.0 28.9 49.0

Percent of population covered by public health care:

ALL NATIONS (except below) 100%
France, Austria 99
Switzerland, Spain, Belgium 98
Germany 92
Netherlands 77
United States 40

Opps, so much for Capitalist triumph. Apparently it's not even working in America! Note that the nations pitted against the US in this list all employ some form of socialism.

Isn't it funny that all these so called "evil liberal communist" nations actually have a much higher quality of life than America?

I am sure that you will retort with something about how these nations are also embracing sexual abomination. Welcome, once again, to reality.
Percent of all children born out of wedlock:

Sweden 46.4%
Denmark 41.9
United States 21.5
United Kingdom 19.2
Canada 12.1
Germany 9.4
Netherlands 8.3
Switzerland 5.6
Japan 1.0
Having children out of wedlock, however, does not mean that the father is not living at home and offering support. Here is the actual percentage of families headed by single parents:

United States 8.0%
Germany 6.7
Netherlands 6.7
Canada 5.6
Denmark 5.1
France 5.1
United Kingdom 4.0
Sweden 3.2
Japan 2.5
Sex education is more prevalent in Europe than America, where conservatives oppose it on the grounds that it condones sexual behavior. The statistics show the unintended consequences of this policy:

Sexually active teenage population:

Norway 66%
United States 65
United Kingdom 57
Germany 56
Canada 53
Italy 34
France 34

Percent who have not had intercourse by age 20:

Boys Girls
Belgium 61 63
Netherlands 58 62
Germany 33 28
Norway 33 25
United Kingdom 24 23
France 9 25
United States 12 16
Percent of sexually active single 15 to 19-year olds using birth control:

Germany 95%
United Kingdom 92
Netherlands 88
Norway 87
Sweden 79
Denmark 70
United States 56

Teen pregnancies per 1,000 teenagers:

United States 98.0
United Kingdom 46.6
Norway 40.2
Canada 38.6
Finland 32.1
Sweden 28.3
Denmark 27.9
Netherlands 12.1
Japan 10.5
This is what conservatism has done to our nation. Proud?

Yes, the forigners are flooding in. And they are soon finding out that they would have been much better off in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Canada, Belgium, or Germany. Evil liberal European nations.

The American dream:
WORK AND LEISURE TIME
Note the position of economic powerhouse Germany in the next two lists.

Average hours worked per year:

Japan 2,173
United States 1,890
Sweden 1,808
United Kingdom 1,771
Netherlands 1,756
Finland 1,744
Norway 1,725
Denmark 1,699
Germany 1,668

Average paid vacation per year:

Finland 35.0 days
Germany 30.0
France 25.5
Denmark 25.0
Sweden 25.0
United Kingdom 25.0
Netherlands 24.0
Switzerland 22.0
Norway 21.0
United States 12.0

News as a percent of all TV programming:

Denmark 43%
Sweden 35
Canada 32
Netherlands 25
Germany 20
United Kingdom 17
Japan 6
United States 2

Annual employee turnover in manufacturing:

United States 40%
Finland 35
Germany 25
United Kingdom 20
Sweden 18
Japan 18
France 14
How employers rate their employees (100 = strong identification with company objectives):

Japan 84.7
Switzerland 70.8
Denmark 68.4
Germany 64.3
Norway 60.7
Finland 60.4
Netherlands 58.5
France 57.9
United States 56.4
Sweden 56.0
Canada 52.2
United Kingdom 48.1

Percent of employees fired for cause:

United States 52%
European Community 43

The United Nations Human Freedom Index (0 = least freedom, 40 = most freedom. More.):

Sweden 38
Denmark 38
Netherlands 37
Austria 36
Finland 36
France 35
Germany 35
Canada 34
Switzerland 34
Australia 33
United States 33
Japan 32
United Kingdom 32

These statistics are shattering to those who believe that greater individualism and less government somehow produce better societies.

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Post #43

Post by skeeterses »

Opps, so much for Capitalist triumph. Apparently it's not even working in America! Note that the nations pitted against the US in this list all employ some form of socialism.
We have some socialism going on in America too. But with the American system, the Government takes from the poor and gives to the rich. This is why the Government will spend trillions on Social Security, Medicare, well-connected defense contractors, but at the same time cuts spending on education and job training. Education and Job Training are the very things needed to climb the ladder in America. Without those 2 things, Opportunity in America is simply working at Burger King and sharing a 1 room apartment with 2 other poor workers. And this all goes on with BOTH Democrat and Republican clowns at the wheel. When extreme conservatives talk about their rags to riches andectotes, they forget the workers who fail to climb out of poverty. So much for "Compassionate Conservatism."

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Post #44

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

We have some socialism going on in America too. But with the American system, the Government takes from the poor and gives to the rich.
I dissagree. From what I see, The United States' basic economic drive is to make a society as opposite from Socialism as possible (hence taking from the poor and giving to the rich). Our welfare programs (or rather, what's left of them) are also being sacraficed for the sake of "freedom" (at the Republican's request, of course).

I think the inane conservative fear of any form of government interference is the prime factor. They like to pride themselves on all the "freedom" America grants, and cry communism whenever the government even hints at stepping across that sacred threshold separating the individual and state.

This is not the way human society is meant to be. From the dawn of homo erectus, humans have shown themselves as social pack animals, fully capable of cooperation. The traits of compassion and teamwork cropped up very early in our lineage. Apparently something went awry in the evolution of Americans. The corporate jungle that passes as "society" in our nation has adopted a dog-eat-dog mentality. The only people truly satisfied with this system are the predators, who have managed to brainwash the ignorant prey (general populace) into thinking that America is still the most democratic worker-friendly nation on earth. If they were not too ignorant to actually look at the statistics (and not too proud to deny them), they would find that this "American Dream" we have grown up hearing about has become a falsehood.

Whenever I say something of this sort, I am labeled an "ungrateful America-basher", or something else to that extent. Complatancy and ignorance are indeed the banes of civilization (well, American civilization, at any rate).

But really, if you guys are satisfied with mediocrity, by all means, milk this crap for all it's worth. In the meantime, I might just move on over to Europe and start living the Swedish Dream.

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Post #45

Post by 1John2_26 »

You've got to be kidding using this. I do not advocate enslaving the poor with a cheap handout but, a hand up. I also do not support the socialist evolution to immorality as civil rights.

My eyes are completely clean. re-read the passages in context.
Quote:

Matthew 7
Judging Others
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
John, you need to have a little Bible lesson. You talk about your Christian love towards your fellow man but yet you condemn Chavez for crimes he hasn't committed yet. Look at America. Good Ole Christian George Bush wants to be a dictator himself.
Chavez is like a parasite in a dogs gut.

Our presidents get eight-years in office and that's it. He'll never step down. The history of latin countries is not good. Especially communist history.

Michael Moore politics. Simply incredible how easily the poor are led by the nose.

Here is a little quote from your supplied "socialist" info. Thanks. Use of religion.

Invocations of God’s approval for the Reich and its works. William L. Shirer in his classic The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich quotes the Fuhrer’s minister of church affairs as declaring that the Nazi party “stands on the basis of Positive Christianity, and Positive Christianity is National Socialism

National Socialism is doing God’s will…”
You Christians need to clean out your own houses first before you start judging others.
We know a train wreck when we see it coming. Easy to do with both eyes open. We also know who is going into the next concentration camps. In some countries Christians are already there.

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Post #46

Post by 1John2_26 »

From a website that uses the following language.
And what may depress many conservatives is that these nations beat us on statistic after statistic after statistic.
Doesn't look suspect to anyone?

Rememeber the exit polling statistics from the last election? Kerryites were polled in propaganda-abundance and Bush was elected in reality.

Seriously, look at the amount of taxes these people are forced to pay. No one can afford a house in the Socialist Republic of California or New York state now, can you imagine what will happen to our middle class when gas is six-dollars a gallon and half of your paycheck goes to pay for inner city hoodlums to run up the unwed mothers and fatherless children stats? Remember that condoms are literally passed out in city schools.

Remember that in the US we actually report most abortions as well. A balanced free press in Europe would bring far different statistics I'd bet, in every category.

Also, Americans do not want to live as Lemmings.
The Persnickety Platypus wrote:
I've found the jackpot.

A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE US AND OTHER RICH NATIONS

Quote:
INCOME INEQUALITY
As mentioned earlier, America has the greatest inequality of income and wealth in the industrialized world:

Inequality of income (0 = most equal society, 100 = the least equal):

United States 99
Canada 83
Netherlands 82
Switzerland 79
United Kingdom 78
Germany 66
Norway 60
Sweden 60

Average CEO's pay as a multiple of an average
worker's pay:

United States 17.5 (More)
United Kingdom 12.4
Japan 11.6
Canada 9.6
France 8.9
Germany 6.5

Percent of Union Membership in Workforce:

Sweden 85.3%
United Kingdom 41.5
Canada 34.6
Germany 33.8
Japan 26.8
Netherlands 25.0
United States 16.4

Size of Middle Class (More):

Japan 90.0%
Sweden 79.0
Norway 73.4
Germany 70.1
Switzerland 67.2
Netherlands 62.5
Canada 58.5
United Kingdom 58.5
United States 53.7

Poverty level (More):

United States 17.1%
Canada 12.6
United Kingdom 9.7
Switzerland 8.5
Germany 5.6
Sweden 5.3
Norway 5.2

Children under the poverty level:

United States 22.4%
Canada 15.5
United Kingdom 9.3
Switzerland 7.8
Sweden 5.0
Germany 4.9
Norway 4.8

Deaths from malnutrition (per million):

Men Women
United States 7 13
France 4 9
Canada 5 7
Japan 2 1
United Kingdom 1 2
Norway 0 1

Head Start (percent of age group enrolled in preschool)

2-year olds 3-year olds 4-year olds
France 35.7% 96.3 100
Norway 22.8 31.6 44.1
Finland 20.2 16.0 19.6
Germany 9.1 32.3 71.6
United Kingdom 1.3 25.9 69.2
United States 0.0 28.9 49.0

Percent of population covered by public health care:

ALL NATIONS (except below) 100%
France, Austria 99
Switzerland, Spain, Belgium 98
Germany 92
Netherlands 77
United States 40



Opps, so much for Capitalist triumph. Apparently it's not even working in America! Note that the nations pitted against the US in this list all employ some form of socialism.

Isn't it funny that all these so called "evil liberal communist" nations actually have a much higher quality of life than America?

I am sure that you will retort with something about how these nations are also embracing sexual abomination. Welcome, once again, to reality.
Quote:
Percent of all children born out of wedlock:

Sweden 46.4%
Denmark 41.9
United States 21.5
United Kingdom 19.2
Canada 12.1
Germany 9.4
Netherlands 8.3
Switzerland 5.6
Japan 1.0
Having children out of wedlock, however, does not mean that the father is not living at home and offering support. Here is the actual percentage of families headed by single parents:

United States 8.0%
Germany 6.7
Netherlands 6.7
Canada 5.6
Denmark 5.1
France 5.1
United Kingdom 4.0
Sweden 3.2
Japan 2.5
Sex education is more prevalent in Europe than America, where conservatives oppose it on the grounds that it condones sexual behavior. The statistics show the unintended consequences of this policy:

Sexually active teenage population:

Norway 66%
United States 65
United Kingdom 57
Germany 56
Canada 53
Italy 34
France 34

Percent who have not had intercourse by age 20:

Boys Girls
Belgium 61 63
Netherlands 58 62
Germany 33 28
Norway 33 25
United Kingdom 24 23
France 9 25
United States 12 16
Percent of sexually active single 15 to 19-year olds using birth control:

Germany 95%
United Kingdom 92
Netherlands 88
Norway 87
Sweden 79
Denmark 70
United States 56

Teen pregnancies per 1,000 teenagers:

United States 98.0
United Kingdom 46.6
Norway 40.2
Canada 38.6
Finland 32.1
Sweden 28.3
Denmark 27.9
Netherlands 12.1
Japan 10.5


This is what conservatism has done to our nation. Proud?

Yes, the forigners are flooding in. And they are soon finding out that they would have been much better off in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Canada, Belgium, or Germany. Evil liberal European nations.

The American dream:

Quote:
WORK AND LEISURE TIME
Note the position of economic powerhouse Germany in the next two lists.

Average hours worked per year:

Japan 2,173
United States 1,890
Sweden 1,808
United Kingdom 1,771
Netherlands 1,756
Finland 1,744
Norway 1,725
Denmark 1,699
Germany 1,668

Average paid vacation per year:

Finland 35.0 days
Germany 30.0
France 25.5
Denmark 25.0
Sweden 25.0
United Kingdom 25.0
Netherlands 24.0
Switzerland 22.0
Norway 21.0
United States 12.0

News as a percent of all TV programming:

Denmark 43%
Sweden 35
Canada 32
Netherlands 25
Germany 20
United Kingdom 17
Japan 6
United States 2

Annual employee turnover in manufacturing:

United States 40%
Finland 35
Germany 25
United Kingdom 20
Sweden 18
Japan 18
France 14
How employers rate their employees (100 = strong identification with company objectives):

Japan 84.7
Switzerland 70.8
Denmark 68.4
Germany 64.3
Norway 60.7
Finland 60.4
Netherlands 58.5
France 57.9
United States 56.4
Sweden 56.0
Canada 52.2
United Kingdom 48.1

Percent of employees fired for cause:

United States 52%
European Community 43

The United Nations Human Freedom Index (0 = least freedom, 40 = most freedom. More.):

Sweden 38
Denmark 38
Netherlands 37
Austria 36
Finland 36
France 35
Germany 35
Canada 34
Switzerland 34
Australia 33
United States 33
Japan 32
United Kingdom 32

These statistics are shattering to those who believe that greater individualism and less government somehow produce better societies.
Freedoms when half of your income is taken from you? Individualism when the paradigm is forced complaince? A better society?

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Post #47

Post by MagusYanam »

1John2_26 wrote:Seriously, look at the amount of taxes these people are forced to pay. No one can afford a house in the Socialist Republic of California or New York state now, can you imagine what will happen to our middle class when gas is six-dollars a gallon and half of your paycheck goes to pay for inner city hoodlums to run up the unwed mothers and fatherless children stats?
Um, wrong, wrong and more wrong. My grandparents, who are living in New York State, own some fairly extensive property around Buffalo which they're having a hard time selling because the market is so competitive and the prices are so low. Also, my middle-class family lived in Pasadena quite comfortably while my dad was working for CalTech.

But really, the only reason gas prices are as low as they are is because we are getting extremely high gas subsidies which European governments don't feel the need to invest in. As a result, more effort is put into public transportation and emissions have been cut drastically. This can be done here; it's just that the government chooses not to because its friends are getting rich off the industry they're subsidising.

Also, people should be obligated to have some of their money finance social capital, that will inevitably affect them. Things like education and health care wouldn't just benefit 1John's imaginary 'hoodlums', they would benefit practically everyone. My grandparents, though they would never admit it, would be a lot better off in a community that actually looked out for their interests.
1John2_26 wrote:Remember that in the US we actually report most abortions as well. A balanced free press in Europe would bring far different statistics I'd bet, in every category.
Um, Europe's the only place nowadays where you're even going to find a balanced, free press, especially given that only 2% of our airwaves time is actually devoted to anything useful, like the news. And what little we have is sensationalist, materialist crap like FOX, ABC and CNN. Given that Europeans are overall better-educated in statistics (all fields of math, to be blunt) than we are, I'd assume they know how to do a survey and do it well.
1John2_26 wrote:Freedoms when half of your income is taken from you? Individualism when the paradigm is forced complaince? A better society?
Says the one who's been arguing for a 'paradigm of forced compliance' all along. Man, the irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

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Post #48

Post by 1John2_26 »

1John2_26 wrote:
Seriously, look at the amount of taxes these people are forced to pay. No one can afford a house in the Socialist Republic of California or New York state now, can you imagine what will happen to our middle class when gas is six-dollars a gallon and half of your paycheck goes to pay for inner city hoodlums to run up the unwed mothers and fatherless children stats?
Um, wrong, wrong and more wrong. My grandparents, who are living in New York State, own some fairly extensive property around Buffalo which they're having a hard time selling because the market is so competitive and the prices are so low. Also, my middle-class family lived in Pasadena quite comfortably while my dad was working for CalTech.


Any welfare or section eight recipients qualify for the homes in Pasadena or Buffalo? No MagusYanam, and you know it. You cannot take half of the American workers' paychecks and by homes (and methadone) for everyone. It is not possible. And socialism will kill America.
But really, the only reason gas prices are as low as they are is because we are getting extremely high gas subsidies which European governments don't feel the need to invest in. As a result, more effort is put into public transportation and emissions have been cut drastically.
Yeah sure. I'll just hop on a train and travel four hours there and back from work and home. America is not Europe. People in Wyoming need cars. Take them from New Yorkers, who cares. But European socialism is not feasible in America. All it will do is keep the poor addicted to a lifestyle supported by rich psychologists.
This can be done here; it's just that the government chooses not to because its friends are getting rich off the industry they're subsidising.
How many Hollywoodites are multi-multi-millionairs? How many employ poor maids? Believe me I know the answer.
Also, people should be obligated to have some of their money finance social capital, that will inevitably affect them.


Good luck on your side of the civil war comrade. If crime was not redefined by liberals then the inevitable affect would not happen. "People should be obligated?" Do you know how that sounds? And I am the one being labeled as forcing my views on others?
Things like education and health care wouldn't just benefit 1John's imaginary 'hoodlums', they would benefit practically everyone.
You must live in a comfy college town. No where near the reality of democrat neighborhoods in evry inner city in America. Thank God these people are apathetically inebriated moments after cashing their welfare and section eight housing checks.
My grandparents, though they would never admit it, would be a lot better off in a community that actually looked out for their interests.


My grandparents lived in a Christian community and lived very well, supported and cared for. Now they would be classified as hate crimes perpetrators. Otherwise know as Christians themselves. Christian communities are rapidly disappearing because of liberalim's carcinogenic immorality spreading like the plague it is. Now the Church is back where it started. Hiding in homes.
1John2_26 wrote:
Remember that in the US we actually report most abortions as well. A balanced free press in Europe would bring far different statistics I'd bet, in every category.

Um, Europe's the only place nowadays where you're even going to find a balanced, free press, especially given that only 2% of our airwaves time is actually devoted to anything useful, like the news.
Would that be the BBC? When I close my left eye and watch the BBC, the screen goes blank.
And what little we have is sensationalist, materialist crap like FOX, ABC and CNN.


OK. But O'reilly is fantastic as he scares the h--l out of the Democrats, except for Al Sharpton.
Given that Europeans are overall better-educated in statistics (all fields of math, to be blunt) than we are, I'd assume they know how to do a survey and do it well.
That would be the socialists running those "polls?"
1John2_26 wrote:
Freedoms when half of your income is taken from you? Individualism when the paradigm is forced complaince? A better society?

Says the one who's been arguing for a 'paradigm of forced compliance' all along. Man, the irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
I'm not the one demanding that marriage be to be changed to appease a promiscuous and lascivious minority that sees it's redefinition and perversion as a means to validate their agenda. It's bad enough that people will not teach sex ed "by the book."

Also, I think people that work hard should get financial subsidies adding to their income. Give taxes and free medical insurance to people that work, stay married (man-woman-children), and struggle to supply the future to this world.

Liberals see these people - hard working honest familes - as targets to oppress and take advantage of. Because, they know they are truly a captive populace.

I cannot see the world as a socialist. Socialism is just too dishonest, spawns decadent and sick behavior and benefits the truly evil of society far more than the honest and decent people that work to death to pay everyone else's bills.

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Post #49

Post by MagusYanam »

Yawn. Just the same garbage over and over again. Perhaps I overestimated your intelligence.
1John2_26 wrote:You must live in a comfy college town. No where near the reality of democrat neighborhoods in evry inner city in America. Thank God these people are apathetically inebriated moments after cashing their welfare and section eight housing checks.
You must live in Hicksville, USA because you obviously have no idea what really does go on in 'evry [sic] inner city in America'.

I may go to school in a 'comfy college town', as it were, but I am from the Democrat neighbourhood of the City of Providence, Rhode Island - about as urban as you can get (in fact, right beside Blackstone Park). Just two years ago, I was on the bus everyday seeing poor people riding to and from work. And I tell you, these inner-city people are nowhere near as stupid or as drunk as you seem to make them out to be. Many of them are good, honest, intelligent people who happened to be born to parents on the wrong side of the tracks and haven't had the capital to build a life above $7 an hour.
1John2_26 wrote:My grandparents lived in a Christian community and lived very well, supported and cared for. Now they would be classified as hate crimes perpetrators. Otherwise know as Christians themselves. Christian communities are rapidly disappearing because of liberalim's carcinogenic immorality spreading like the plague it is. Now the Church is back where it started. Hiding in homes.
Maybe your church is that cowardly. However the Episcopal Church still withstands public scrutiny, still conducts its affairs in the broad daylight through the stained-glass windows, and still stands up for the morality for which it has always stood up - social and economic equality, civil rights, charitable work and theological rationalism.
1John2_26 wrote:Would that be the BBC? When I close my left eye and watch the BBC, the screen goes blank.
Perhaps that log in your right one is the problem.
1John2_26 wrote:OK. But O'reilly is fantastic as he scares the h--l out of the Democrats, except for Al Sharpton.
Hah, don't make me laugh. Jesus had some very strong words for people like O'Reilly who make their livings disobeying his Way and his Truth. Read St. Matthew 5 and see if anything looks familiar.

That is, unless you want to remove the log from your eye first.
1John2_26 wrote:That would be the socialists running those "polls?"
That would be the CIA and the Department of Education, who as we are all well-aware are not made up of socialists.
1John2_26 wrote:Liberals see these people - hard working honest familes - as targets to oppress and take advantage of. Because, they know they are truly a captive populace.
Liberals see themselves as targets to oppress? You are still blind to the fact that most of us are the 'hard working honest families' you speak of? On top of going to school, I'm working a 20-hour pay period at minimum wage keeping the gears of society running smoothly, and I come from as good and loving a home as any could ask.

Funny you should mention this, though, as it seems that the regions of the United States that produce the most wealth (that isn't to say making the most money, but producing the most things and services of value) seem to be states that voted for Kerry. The honest, hard workers of New England, the Midwest and the West Coast seem to be the ones taking society up by its bootstraps while hicks in the South and West give so much less back to society. And what's more, you have the gall to come and tell us - us, the ones who are producing all the goods and providing all the services - what our politics should be!

You should be ashamed of yourself. Honestly.

1John2_26
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Post #50

Post by 1John2_26 »

You may want to look at a county to county map of conservative-liberal voting. The country is dominated by red counties. If it wasn't for the poisoned minds in the big cities the Democrats would have disappeared by now.
Yawn. Just the same garbage over and over again. Perhaps I overestimated your intelligence.
Typical of a leftist. Elitist totalitarianism forced into the minds of college students. Things change as reality and aging mix.
1John2_26 wrote:
You must live in a comfy college town. No where near the reality of democrat neighborhoods in evry inner city in America. Thank God these people are apathetically inebriated moments after cashing their welfare and section eight housing checks.
You must live in Hicksville, USA because you obviously have no idea what really does go on in 'evry [sic] inner city in America'
.

This is a message board debate. please leave the typo editing alone. It's silly. I live and have only lived in blue states. I just talked to an appliance repairman that asked me "what happened to my (Democrat) party?"

I just laughed of course. He continued: "We have become a communist party paying people to stay poor."

"You're preaching to the choir brother."

I'd tell you what he thought about liberal morality but it's hard to get the tears out of my eyes from laughing and crying. Suffice it to say he was a man married to a woman, raising children (his children) in a world of liberal-sponsered horror. He doesn't know what to do with his vote now.
I may go to school in a 'comfy college town', as it were, but I am from the Democrat neighbourhood of the City of Providence, Rhode Island - about as urban as you can get (in fact, right beside Blackstone Park).
Rhode Island?
Just two years ago, I was on the bus everyday seeing poor people riding to and from work. And I tell you, these inner-city people are nowhere near as stupid or as drunk as you seem to make them out to be.
I never even implied anyone from the inner-city is stupid. Inebriated yes. I'm sure the term "crack whore" didn't develope in suburbia. Though it's on the way.
Many of them are good, honest, intelligent people who happened to be born to parents on the wrong side of the tracks and haven't had the capital to build a life above $7 an hour.


And your answer is communism? No American wants this. You even try to take fifty percent of the paychecks from even these inner-city workers and civil war will erupt. Every American wants to be free. If only these inner-city lemmings were not following Democrat lies of subsidized morality.
1John2_26 wrote:
My grandparents lived in a Christian community and lived very well, supported and cared for. Now they would be classified as hate crimes perpetrators. Otherwise know as Christians themselves. Christian communities are rapidly disappearing because of liberalim's carcinogenic immorality spreading like the plague it is. Now the Church is back where it started. Hiding in homes.
Maybe your church is that cowardly. However the Episcopal Church still withstands public scrutiny, still conducts its affairs in the broad daylight through the stained-glass windows, and still stands up for the morality for which it has always stood up - social and economic equality, civil rights, charitable work and theological rationalism.


Darkness is overtaking the Episcopal Church in broad daylight. Liberalism needs to hide no longer in the shadows it once did. It seems quite clear now. We both know that the Anglican Union is not healthy.
1John2_26 wrote:
Would that be the BBC? When I close my left eye and watch the BBC, the screen goes blank.
Perhaps that log in your right one is the problem.
Great comeback. But I see naked boobies just as clear with both eyes. I just now, choose not to look. The BBC is hardly a place to find morality. It is what the networks and MTV want to be. I have many British friends.
1John2_26 wrote:
OK. But O'reilly is fantastic as he scares the h--l out of the Democrats, except for Al Sharpton.
Hah, don't make me laugh. Jesus had some very strong words for people like O'Reilly who make their livings disobeying his Way and his Truth. Read St. Matthew 5 and see if anything looks familiar.
O'Reilly allows both sides to speak. Very open-minded man.
That is, unless you want to remove the log from your eye first.
It is gone. And has been since I became a conservative leaving a life of liberalim. I have a fine perspective now. Very clear indeed. I can even see how blaoted Michael Moore is. Now.
1John2_26 wrote:
That would be the socialists running those "polls?"
That would be the CIA and the Department of Education, who as we are all well-aware are not made up of socialists.


The CIA doesn't scare me at all. I have nothing to hide. The Department of education wants my children to be sodomites. Literally. The department of education I fear. My children are in private schools because of The Department of Education. The evolution of evolution has taken its moral-carcinogenic toll on schools. I want my children healthy.
1John2_26 wrote:
Liberals see these people - hard working honest familes - as targets to oppress and take advantage of. Because, they know they are truly a captive populace.
Liberals see themselves as targets to oppress?
Taking a pipe in your mouth is your own choice. Having children out of wedlock is your own choice. These people do not poay taxes. The Democrat's tax base are hard working honest people trapped like rats trying to raise their familes in a world closing its immoral-liberal noose around their necks. Democrat means taking money from the honest to pay for the dishonest. It is that simple.

How many welfare and section eight housing recipients are motivated moral people? The leave a legacy of offspring on government subsidies.
You are still blind to the fact that most of us are the 'hard working honest families' you speak of? On top of going to school, I'm working a 20-hour pay period at minimum wage keeping the gears of society running smoothly, and I come from as good and loving a home as any could ask.


I speak to bewildered Democrats every day that wonder what happened to their party. They wonder how the leftists took control. I tell them how. Offer a free lunch and then lower the boom. National Socialism in action.
Funny you should mention this, though, as it seems that the regions of the United States that produce the most wealth (that isn't to say making the most money, but producing the most things and services of value) seem to be states that voted for Kerry.
The counties that produce the most income in California are red counties. THE cities of decadenc and immorality control the numbers in voting. The good people are literally held captive by big citiy reprobates. It is an evil situation. But typical all over the country. You need to get out more.
The honest, hard workers of New England, the Midwest and the West Coast seem to be the ones taking society up by its bootstraps while hicks in the South and West give so much less back to society.
Large cities have large voer blocks. It is like a cancerous tumor taking over the body. It is that simple to see happening. Suburbs are spreading because people want to leave the horror spawned by liberalim. I have literally done that by moving my family away as far as I can get them, from Democrat-led counties.
And what's more, you have the gall to come and tell us - us, the ones who are producing all the goods and providing all the services - what our politics should be!


The San Gabriel Valley and the midwest feed the earth. The families in those places do not even want to hear about the sick things done in liberal cities.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Honestly.
Really?

There is no way to shame a leftist that literally outlawed the words evil and sin, or I would remind you of many things to be ashamed of. But to the leftist mind civil rights have been afforded to the worst kinds of behaviors forced to be paid for by decent and honest people.

Suburbs are an insult proclaimed to the kinds of people moved away from. Every tribe, every toungue and every nation is represented in those suburbs.

I have no shame for wanting the world to consist of familes raising their children in peace without leftists taking everything away from them to pay the bills for venereal diseases and perverted ideologies to spread like tumors.

Leftists actually support evil because this enslaves people to need the services promised but never delivered in completeness.

Of course "evil" doesn't exist anymore (to the leftist), unless it is used to see people that have earned a better life the best way it should be attained. I cannot be shamed to think that honest and decent people should have their incomes taxed to pay for liberal/socialism. It is just an immoral thing to do.

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