The ulimate sacrifice

[Misty]

When someone is said to have made the ulimate sacrifice it suggests they have knowingly laid down their life for family, friends, country or a cause. If you believe the story to be true, Jesus supposedly laid down his life for the 'sins' of the world. The difference between the ulimate sacrifice of Jesus, and that of others is they laid down their lives knowing they would stay dead. Jesus laid down his life presumably knowing after three days he would pop up again. Whilst the death of Jesus was nasty and painful, many others have suffered as bad, if not worse, deaths proceeded by horrific torture lasting weeks sometimes. I think the selfless sacrifice of a mere human is much more praiseworthy than that of a supposed divine entity.

[McCulloch]

According to scripture, Jesus gave up the position of being with god in order to slum with the humans and offer himself as a sacrifice. How many humans have ever had that kind of a status to give up?

[Misty]

According to scripture, Jesus gave up the position of being with god in order to slum with the humans and offer himself as a sacrifice. How many humans have ever had that kind of a status to give up?

He didn't give it up for long, 33 years to be exact!

[Ooberman]

When someone is said to have made the ulimate sacrifice it suggests they have knowingly laid down their life for family, friends, country or a cause. If you believe the story to be true, Jesus supposedly laid down his life for the 'sins' of the world. The difference between the ulimate sacrifice of Jesus, and that of others is they laid down their lives knowing they would stay dead. Jesus laid down his life presumably knowing after three days he would pop up again. Whilst the death of Jesus was nasty and painful, many others have suffered as bad, if not worse, deaths proceeded by horrific torture lasting weeks sometimes. I think the selfless sacrifice of a mere human is much more praiseworthy than that of a supposed divine entity.

Yep, Jesus' sacrifice was no more than Evil Knievel sacrificing his body for the entertainment of thousands - except Evil didn't know he would always get back up to walk away. Evil, did, however, know serious pain might be part of his sacrifice and that he might black out, and be in a coma for 3 days: he would have known that was one possible scenario among millions.

Jesus knew (allegedly) the one and only scenario: that he would feel a little pain, pass out and wake up to rule the Universe.

It gives me much greater appreciation for people who actually risk something for the benefit of society; police, military, firemen, etc.

It also shows the absurdity of the Xian religion. If Jesus didn't know, it doesn't really matter, since his death really didn't do much other than save a few (since the Bible says that few will be saved). He claims to have absolved everyone of sin, but that wasn't true.


And why would God take that as a sacrifice in the first place? Why not an apple or something less gruesome? Why not just forgive humanity? Why the Roman-like gory show? (Or, rather, the diabolical disgusting human sacrifice like the Aztecs)

Sadly, it doesn't make sense, even as a metaphor or myth. It's just a really bad religion.

[ChaosBorders]

According to scripture, Jesus gave up the position of being with god in order to slum with the humans and offer himself as a sacrifice. How many humans have ever had that kind of a status to give up?

He didn't give it up for long, 33 years to be exact!

Conceivably an all knowing being may well experience all things that occur during its 'lifespan' as if happening concurrently. In which case what is important is not the length of time pain was physically experienced, but rather that God is willing to experience pain at all on our behalf.

[Misty]

According to scripture, Jesus gave up the position of being with god in order to slum with the humans and offer himself as a sacrifice. How many humans have ever had that kind of a status to give up?

He didn't give it up for long, 33 years to be exact!

Conceivably an all knowing being may well experience all things that occur during its 'lifespan' as if happening concurrently. In which case what is important is not the length of time pain was physically experienced, but rather that God is willing to experience pain at all on our behalf.

I doubt any deity would want to suffer pain, the whole idea of Jesus dying for our 'sins' seems a very human, and not very credible concept to me.

[ChaosBorders]

According to scripture, Jesus gave up the position of being with god in order to slum with the humans and offer himself as a sacrifice. How many humans have ever had that kind of a status to give up?

He didn't give it up for long, 33 years to be exact!

Conceivably an all knowing being may well experience all things that occur during its 'lifespan' as if happening concurrently. In which case what is important is not the length of time pain was physically experienced, but rather that God is willing to experience pain at all on our behalf.

I doubt any deity would want to suffer pain, the whole idea of Jesus dying for our 'sins' seems a very human, and not very credible concept to me.

What does 'want' have anything to do with it?

[Ooberman]

According to scripture, Jesus gave up the position of being with god in order to slum with the humans and offer himself as a sacrifice. How many humans have ever had that kind of a status to give up?

He didn't give it up for long, 33 years to be exact!

Conceivably an all knowing being may well experience all things that occur during its 'lifespan' as if happening concurrently. In which case what is important is not the length of time pain was physically experienced, but rather that God is willing to experience pain at all on our behalf.

I doubt any deity would want to suffer pain, the whole idea of Jesus dying for our 'sins' seems a very human, and not very credible concept to me.

The alternative is that God/Jesus didn't want to suffer pain... which means he wasn't powerful enough to do what he wanted (or stop what he didn't want)

[ChaosBorders]

According to scripture, Jesus gave up the position of being with god in order to slum with the humans and offer himself as a sacrifice. How many humans have ever had that kind of a status to give up?

He didn't give it up for long, 33 years to be exact!

Conceivably an all knowing being may well experience all things that occur during its 'lifespan' as if happening concurrently. In which case what is important is not the length of time pain was physically experienced, but rather that God is willing to experience pain at all on our behalf.

I doubt any deity would want to suffer pain, the whole idea of Jesus dying for our 'sins' seems a very human, and not very credible concept to me.

The alternative is that God/Jesus didn't want to suffer pain... which means he wasn't powerful enough to do what he wanted (or stop what he didn't want)

Or that his inherent nature dictated a course of action that required pain. Wanting something and finding it to be necessary are two very seperate things. Just because you have the power to do what you want doesn't mean you will.

[Ooberman]

According to scripture, Jesus gave up the position of being with god in order to slum with the humans and offer himself as a sacrifice. How many humans have ever had that kind of a status to give up?

He didn't give it up for long, 33 years to be exact!

Conceivably an all knowing being may well experience all things that occur during its 'lifespan' as if happening concurrently. In which case what is important is not the length of time pain was physically experienced, but rather that God is willing to experience pain at all on our behalf.

I doubt any deity would want to suffer pain, the whole idea of Jesus dying for our 'sins' seems a very human, and not very credible concept to me.

The alternative is that God/Jesus didn't want to suffer pain... which means he wasn't powerful enough to do what he wanted (or stop what he didn't want)

Or that his inherent nature dictated a course of action that required pain. Wanting something and finding it to be necessary are two very seperate things. Just because you have the power to do what you want doesn't mean you will.

Hmm... I think the idea of omnipotence, or a reasonable facsimile, is that there is a way to get what you want, how and when you want it.

After all, God could have blown up Earth in 4000 BC and taken everyone to Heaven then, but he obviously chose, or allowed a path that led to pain being inflicted on him - through the crucifixtion, or via the supposed suffering he feels as people continue to be born (which means more and more sin offends his senses).