Physical pain in Hell

[Lux]

For the sake of this discussion, we assume there is a place called Hell, where some people (which people is irrelevant here) go after they die.

Every time I've heard about Hell, it was all about physical pain. Fire, torture, eternal agony. But how can we experience pain after we've died? Our brains cease to work, our neurones die. Our nerves no longer transmit signals. It is observable that a dead person can feel no pain. Otherwise, autopsies would be a terribly inhumane practice.

How can we feel pain, even in Hell, if our brains no longer function?

It has been pointed out to me that what goes to Hell or Heaven are our souls. How is it possible for a soul to feel physical pain?

[Slopeshoulder]

S-words Response; Ok, the fact that you are asking about the hell as described by some christians, you are asking about the hell that is recorded in the bible, for no christian would be describing any other hell.

And irrelevant as to what anyone else will tell you, your inquiry of the biblical Hell can only be answered from the Bible.

Sure we can look outside the Bible and answer from outside the Bible. Not to exclude the Bible, we can also look to tradition, church teachings, dogma, theology, saints, sages, poets, religious psychologists, and contemporary theology. They all basically sum to the idea that hell is absence of all we call God, and the rest is symbolism, especially the Bible.

So your claim does not apply to all Christians, or actually even to most Christians (globally and historically, american-style evangelicals and biblicists are actually a small minority of Christians, although most seem to have no clue about that).
Please try to include all christians in your awareness and references.

BTW, the OP never mentions the Bible, and simply asks Christians about hell. You basically missed that and said the biblical hell is in the bible. That's circular and narrows the discussion, as biblicists always seem to be in a hurry to do.

[Goat]

; Note to readers: no one alive has any idea whatsoever what happens after death.

S-words Response; Jesus and Enoch do.

Please provide actual evidence the Jesus and Enoch know what happens after death. How do you know? How do you know that they actually existed to begin with.

[Lux]

Quote=Lucia; In the OP, I say that for this debate we assume there is a place called Hell as described by some christians.

S-words Response; Ok, the fact that you are asking about the hell as described by some christians, you are asking about the hell that is recorded in the bible, for no christian would be describing any other hell.

And irrelevant as to what anyone else will tell you, your inquiry of the biblical Hell can only be answered from the Bible. And the scriptures, whether they are correct or incorrect, state that only the Beast, the False Prophet, and the Devil will be tormented for ever and ever in the fires of hell,See Revelation 20: 10.

The righteous will not be cast into the lake of fire and sulfur, but only the perverts, thieves, murderers etc will suffer the second death, which is after the heavens and earth have disappeared and no physical life forms are in existence, which means that the second death is the death of the mind/spirit, which is, who they are.

If someone says that the Perverts, thieves, murderers ect, do not die the second death in the lake of Fire and sulphur, then they are not referring to the hell that is described by Christians and which is to be found only in the bible.

You are not answering my question at all. How can anyone (thieves, murderers, false prophets, whoever) feel physical pain after they no longer have working brain cells and nerves?
I don't think the Bible provides an answer for that question. If it does, please refer to it.

[myth-one.com]

Once dead, we neither know nor feel anything according to the Bible!

If true that would be good.

Hi Misty, that's what the Bible states. I think it's perfect.

How can anyone (thieves, murderers, false prophets, whoever) feel physical pain after they no longer have working brain cells and nerves?
I don't think the Bible provides an answer for that question.

Here it is again:

For the wages of sin is death; ... (Romans 6:23)

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing ... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Once dead, mankind neither know nor feel anything according to the Bible! So the answer is: after death mankind feels no pain.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Only two groups exist, believers and nonbelievers. According to the above verse, believers shall have everlasting life -- future tense. No human is born with an immortal soul. Christians are not born with their reward.

Nonbelievers perish, never to exist again. The punishment for sinning is death, they sinned and have no savior from their sins, so they perish quickly when cast into hell.

I see that you are in the Atheist usergroup. Let's separate the question from the Bible for a minute. Suppose I wrote the following parable:

"The wages of sin is death and all have sinned. Living humans know they will die, once dead they know nothing. But Bob so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in his son will not perish, but have everlasting life."

Let's assume that Bob and his son (whoever they are) have the power to do their part of the above, so that Bob's son can accept the penalty for others.

Now, can you answer the following three questions about the above fictional analogy:

1) What happens to those who do not believe in Bob's son?

2) Will they feel any pain after what happens to them in your answer to question one?

3) If the above is a good fictional analogy as to what the Bible states, then does the Bible answer the OP's question?

[JoeyKnothead]

Once dead, we neither know nor feel anything according to the Bible!

If true that would be good.

Hi Misty, that's what the Bible states. I think it's perfect.

How can anyone (thieves, murderers, false prophets, whoever) feel physical pain after they no longer have working brain cells and nerves?
I don't think the Bible provides an answer for that question.

Here it is again:

For the wages of sin is death; ... (Romans 6:23)

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing ... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Once dead, mankind neither know nor feel anything according to the Bible! So the answer is: after death mankind feels no pain.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Only two groups exist, believers and nonbelievers. According to the above verse, believers shall have everlasting life -- future tense. No human is born with an immortal soul. Christians are not born with their reward.

Nonbelievers perish, never to exist again. The punishment for sinning is death, they sinned and have no savior from their sins, so they perish quickly when cast into hell.

I see that you are in the Atheist usergroup. Let's separate the question from the Bible for a minute. Suppose I wrote the following parable:

"The wages of sin is death and all have sinned. Living humans know they will die, once dead they know nothing. But Bob so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in his son will not perish, but have everlasting life."

Let's assume that Bob and his son (whoever they are) have the power to do their part of the above, so that Bob's son can accept the penalty for others.

Now, can you answer the following three questions about the above fictional analogy:

1) What happens to those who do not believe in Bob's son?

2) Will they feel any pain after what happens to them in your answer to question one?

3) If the above is a good fictional analogy as to what the Bible states, then does the Bible answer the OP's question?

From a theological standpoint I gotta go with myth-one.com. If we assume the Hell the bible speaks of is real, then we're somewhat bound to accept the Bible's other claims regarding this Hell.

This does contradict what I've been told by many self-professed Christians, so how much weight the observer places on my opinion here oughta be considered thoroughly before reaching their own conclusions.

[Lux]

Here it is again:

For the wages of sin is death; ... (Romans 6:23)

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing ... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Once dead, mankind neither know nor feel anything according to the Bible! So the answer is: after death mankind feels no pain.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Only two groups exist, believers and nonbelievers. According to the above verse, believers shall have everlasting life -- future tense. No human is born with an immortal soul. Christians are not born with their reward.

Nonbelievers perish, never to exist again. The punishment for sinning is death, they sinned and have no savior from their sins, so they perish quickly when cast into hell.

But there are passages in the Bible claiming there is everlasting punishment for certain people:

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strangeb flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

I see that you are in the Atheist usergroup. Let's separate the question from the Bible for a minute. Suppose I wrote the following parable:

"The wages of sin is death and all have sinned. Living humans know they will die, once dead they know nothing. But Bob so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in his son will not perish, but have everlasting life."

Let's assume that Bob and his son (whoever they are) have the power to do their part of the above, so that Bob's son can accept the penalty for others.

Ok, I am now in assumption mode.

Now, can you answer the following three questions about the above fictional analogy:

1) What happens to those who do not believe in Bob's son?

They do not obtain everlasting life, therefore they die.

2) Will they feel any pain after what happens to them in your answer to question one?

None at all, if there aren't any further consequences.

3) If the above is a good fictional analogy as to what the Bible states, then does the Bible answer the OP's question?

If the above is a good analogy of the Bible's position, then it wouldn't so much answer the OP, it would render it a moot point: if there is no promise of eternal afterlife pain, there is no need to defend how that pain is possible.

But since I've found Bible quotes that do make the claim of eternal punishment, I can't consider what you wrote a good example of the Bible's position, although I have to add that I like your position on this matter much more than that of those who rejoice in the idea of humans suffering for all eternity.

[myth-one.com]

But there are passages in the Bible claiming there is everlasting punishment for certain people:

Yes, the punishment for all sinners is everlasting.

My question for you is what does the Bible define as the punishment?

The Bible states repeatedly (as I quoted above) that the punishment is death. The wages of sin is death, etc.

Is death an everlasting punishment?

If the above is a good analogy of the Bible's position, then it wouldn't so much answer the OP, it would render it a moot point: if there is no promise of eternal afterlife pain, there is no need to defend how that pain is possible.

There will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." But this will probably be in anticipation. Once cast into hell, death will occur quickly.

But since I've found Bible quotes that do make the claim of eternal punishment, I can't consider what you wrote a good example of the Bible's position, ...

The wages of sin is death, not everlasting torture! Death is eternal and everlasting by definition:

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

A person tortured in hellfire for eternity is never dead! Yet the Bible clearly states death is their penalty and that the penalty is everlasting or eternal. The root cause of the eternal torture myth is the immortal soul myth. Many Christians believe that all mankind is born with an immortal soul. Consequently, death does not apply to mankind now or ever. The immortal soul myth is why Christianity will fail its great commission of spreading the gospel good news to all the world -- as the Bible prophesies.

... although I have to add that I like your position on this matter much more than that of those who rejoice in the idea of humans suffering for all eternity.

I accept no credit as it being "my" position. That is what the Bible states, and that is what I can prove! I do apologize for blindly accepting, teaching, and financially supporting the false belief of eternal torture for too many years! It's caused, and continues to cause much unnecessary pain. God doesn't hate you, He loves you, Lucia! He will honor your choice.

My atheist friends: For a good time, ask Christians believing the eternal torture bit how God can also be love?

[Lux]

Yes, the punishment for all sinners is everlasting.

My question for you is what does the Bible define as the punishment?

The Bible states repeatedly (as I quoted above) that the punishment is death. The wages of sin is death, etc.

Is death an everlasting punishment?

There will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." But this will probably be in anticipation. Once cast into hell, death will occur quickly.

The wages of sin is death, not everlasting torture! Death is eternal and everlasting by definition:

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

I wouldn't consider it to be, honestly. To me, death is just an instant, and then there is nothing.
If nothing comes after death for those who don't achieve eternal life, then how can the punishment be eternal? Death is an irreversible state for humans, but it happens quickly and then there is nothing, correct? So the state of being dead will last forever, but the actual punishment is only a moment, because after we're dead we have no conscience, and without being conscious, how can we be punished?

A person tortured in hellfire for eternity is never dead! Yet the Bible clearly states death is their penalty and that the penalty is everlasting or eternal. The root cause of the eternal torture myth is the immortal soul myth. Many Christians believe that all mankind is born with an immortal soul. Consequently, death does not apply to mankind now or ever. The immortal soul myth is why Christianity will fail its great commission of spreading the gospel good news to all the world -- as the Bible prophesies.

I don't believe that we are born with an eternal soul either.
However, as I stated above, the Bible promises eternal punishment for some, and even though once dead we will be dead forever, the actual punishment (dying) would only last a short period of time.

[I accept no credit as it being "my" position. That is what the Bible states, and that is what I can prove!

It is the position you chose regardless of where you got it from, and I respect it. Many assume the position that millions will be tortured forever and ever. I can't honestly say I respect the position of those who take pleasure in this idea.

I do apologize for blindly accepting, teaching, and financially supporting the false belief of eternal torture for too many years! It's caused, and continues to cause much unnecessary pain. God doesn't hate you, He loves you, Lucia! He will honor your choice.

It's true, the threat of Hell causes pain to many. I remember being traumatized by it when I was about 5, even though my parents did not raise me to believe in any religion. I can only imagine how scary it must be for the children (and teens, and adults) who are taught by their very own parents that they might someday go to a place of eternal torture.

[S-word]

; Note to readers: no one alive has any idea whatsoever what happens after death.

S-words Response; Jesus and Enoch do.

Please provide actual evidence the Jesus and Enoch know what happens after death. How do you know? How do you know that they actually existed to begin with.

The same way I know and believe that Alexandria the Great, Augustus Caesar, and Mark Antony, all existed, because I have faith that the men who recorded their lives and the thing that they accomplished in their lives, were basically honest in their records.

[WinePusher]

You are not answering my question at all. How can anyone (thieves, murderers, false prophets, whoever) feel physical pain after they no longer have working brain cells and nerves?
I don't think the Bible provides an answer for that question. If it does, please refer to it.

Your basing your question off an unaccepted premise. Christians (most of them) do not claim that you can feel physical pain in hell. Hell is taught to be a place of solitude from God and others. The christian concept of hell is not burning in fire and being whipped by satan.