Redemption

[Yolande]

The world is in a fallen state.
Few can argue against that.

Even atheists realize things are not ideal, and use the mess around us to argue against the existence of a loving God.

Those who believe in God are all eager to understand and contribute to restoring this world, this mess, to a state of wholeness and beauty.

From where I stand, and the years I have journeyed I see it like this.

1. Those into spirituality, but not biblical Christianity, when developed beyond wanting to use spiritual principles to enrich themselves, eventually come to a place of wanting to live for the greater good of all.
They want to spend their lives and energies in such a way as to work about redemption, the development of the human race into a higher state of existence.
Their methods: meditation, unselfish thoughts (prayers) and various other spiritual processes. Mass meditation being one, in order to stop wars etc.

2. Those into biblical Christianity, who have developed to a point of wanting to be part of something bigger themselves, I, me and myself, are also keen to see God's redemption plan being rolled out.
Here I would categorise 3 main streams.
I. Those in cult groups that does not believe any level of salvation comes by grace through faith (Pauline doctrine) and strive exclusively through their "good works" to impress God.
They claim to be Christian but reject the fundamental message of the New Testament, and is thus no different in essence from type 1 above.

II. Those who believe they are spiritually saved by grace through faith, who believes in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross, but who wants to accomplish other levels of salvation, such as healing, deliverance, prosperity and peace, through self efforts (self righteousness).
These formulas they are forever running towards to work about God's redemptive purposes can for example be love acts.
Or for those in the Word of Faith movement, it could be by emphasising sowing and reaping, which could entail confessions, fasting, speaking long times in tongues, loud bible reading for hours, long prayers, etc.
All in the effort to give some umph to God's redemptive purposes through their spiritual contributions, which they package as "sowing".

They strive towards a combination of Biblical New Testament Christianity and spirituality (1 above). They dilute the message of the cross, and contaminate it with self-righteousness.


III. And then there are those who found their identity in Christ, as sons of the most High, who live from John 17 oneness with God,
and who understands that God does all the redemption through Christ. We can add nothing. But by walking before God day by day, abiding in Him, receiving His love daily, we can access the wealth of the Kingdom, by simply understanding our inheritance as sons of God. By nothing we can do. But due to everything He has done. Which we joyfully receive in thanksgiving.
When we "get this" it becomes a journey about being, and in being, we walk into our redemptive purposes. For God has a redemptive purpose for every individual, every family, every nation, every continent. It is something that needs to be lived, from a place of being, in Christ, it is not something that needs to be accomplished, yet God's entire redemption plan will start to materialize, as people start resting and being in Christ, walking before God, day by day.


Christianity is not complicated. It is so simple. We have complicated the gospel to death. And it's not.

I see God's redemptive purposes only to be established in Christ (see 2III above). Our self-righteousness, our human efforts to complete His redemption plan, apart from the sacrifice of His Son, is to God like filthy menstrual cloths.
God is merciful now and forever. He never changes. It is my conviction currently, that this redemptive plan of God will not stop until every living being is reconciled back to God, as per God's great plan in Ephesians 1.
I do believe in a hell, but not an eternal one. The Greek word "aion" was incorrectly translated to eternal in english, whereas it isn't. Else there wouldn't be something like aions (plural).

(See also Rev 5:13)

[bernee51]

The world is in a fallen state.
Few can argue against that.

I disagree. Fallen from what?

Even atheists realize things are not ideal, and use the mess around us to argue against the existance of a loving God.

I use the knowledge that we are at the leading edge of evolution with the ability and duty to consiously evolve to undrstand that we are oh so lucky to be here.

T
Those who believe in God are all eager to understand and contribute to restoring this world, this mess, to a state of wholeness and beauty.

man's ideas of heaven has made a hell of this abundant paradise.

.

1. Those into spirituality, but not biblical christianity, when developed beyond wanting to use spiritual principles to enrich themselves, eventually come to a place of wanting to live for the greater good of all.
They want to spend their lives and energies in such a way as to work about redemption, the development of the human race into a higher state of existence.
Their methods: meditation, unselfish thoughts (prayers) and various other spiritual processes. Mass meditation being one, in order to stop wars etc.

Admirable and inclusive.

But not "wanting to live for the greater good of all" - realizing they are living for that.

2. Those into biblical christianity who have developed to a point of wanting to be part of something bigger themselves, I, me and myself, are also keen to see God's redemption plan being rolled out.
Here I would categorize 3 main streams.
I. Those in cultic groups that does not believe any level of salvation comes by grace through faith (Pauline doctrine) and strive exclusively through their "good works" to impress God.

II. Those who believe they are spiritualy saved by grace through faith, who believes in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross, but who wants to accomplish other levels of salvation, such as healing, deliverance, prosperity and peace, through self efforts (self righteousness).
These formulas they are forever running towards to work about God's redemptive purposes can for example be love acts.
Or for those in the Word of Faith movement, it could be by emphaising sowing and reaping, which could entail confessions, fasting, speaking long times in tongues, loud bible reading for hours, long prayers, etc.
All in the effort to give some umph to God's redemptive purposes through their spiritual contributions, which they package as "sowing".

III. And then there are those who found their identiy in Christ, as sons of the most High, who live from John 17 oneness with God, and who understands that God does all the redemption through Christ. We can add nothing. But by walking before God day by day, abiding in Him, receiving His love daily, we can excess the wealth of the Kingdom, by simply understanding our inheritance as sons of God. By nothing we can do. But due to everything He has done. Which we joyfully receive in thanksgiving.
When we "get this" it becomes a journey about being, and in being, we walk into our redemptive purposes. For God has a redemptive purpose for every idividual, every family, every nation, every continent. It is something that needs to be lived, from a place of being, in Christ, it is not something that needs to be accomplished, yet God's entire redemption plan will start materializing, as people start resting and being in Christ, walking before God, day by day.

Christianity is not complicated. It is so simple. We have complicated the gospel to death. And it's not.

Three long paragraphs compared to one...you call that simple..

I think I'll stick with non-biblical, non-christian spirituality.

[Yolande]

Fallen from what?

From Glory.

[bernee51]

Fallen from what?

From Glory.

I have no idea of what you speak...glory?


The 'fall' is a metaphor for the 'rise' - the evolution- from simple consciousness - that which we see in the higher mammals today - to the self reflective consiousness of homo sapiens.

Mankind lost the innocence of not knowing itself.

The 'glory' from which it fell was ignorance of itself.

You would have preferred we stayed as the apes?

[Yolande]

There is only one single way redemption can be brought about.

Spiritual groups as well as Christian groups that try to bring it about through their own spirituality or self-righteous efforts, can at best bring some improvement in the state of things currently, but will never be see glory return to the earth, the way it was originally lost.

There is thus only one message of Christianity, redemption through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Just like one get one truth with many distorted lies.
There is only one truth here, with distortions within the Christian church as well as without.

[bernee51]

There is only one single way redemption can be brought about.

Redemption from what?

Spiritual groups as well as Christian groups that try to bring it about through their own spirituality or self-righteous efforts, can at best bring some improvement in the state of things currently, but will never be see glory return to the earth, the way it was originally lost.

We are evolving - we cannot, nor should we want to, return to the 'glory' of ignorance.

There is thus only one message of Christianity, redemption through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Christ too is a metaphor. The 'trial' represents the suffering within the illusion of selfhood. The crucifixion is the death of the idea of individual selfhood. The resurrection is the appearance of the Self - cosmic consiousness.

Just like one get one truth with many distorted lies.
There is only one truth here, with distortions within the Christian church as well as without.

And you know truth because....?

[Yolande]

Fallen from what?

From Glory.

I have no idea of what you speak...glory?

God's glory radiates from Him.
The Holy Spirit carries the glory of God.

It is like the rays of the son.

The bible tells us Adam and Eve didn't even need clothes, they radiated glory.

If you have never been in the manifested presence of the Most High, you wouldn't know what this is what I am talking about.

How would you know, for it is lost. But it is the calling of the bride of Christ, to bring back the glory of God to this earth.
And as long as the church is busy with religion and self-righteousness, it will not happen.
Sadly.

We are the light of the world.

[Scotracer]

Fallen from what?

From Glory.

I have no idea of what you speak...glory?

God's glory radiates from Him.
The Holy Spirit carries the glory of God.

It is like the rays of the son.

The bible tells us Adam and Eve didn't even need clothes, they radiated glory.

If you have never been in the manifested presence of the Most High, you wouldn't know what this is what I am talking about.

How would you know, for it is lost. But it is the calling of the bride of Christ, to bring back the glory of God to this earth.
And as long as the church is busy with religion and self-righteousness, it will not happen.
Sadly.

We are the light of the world.

But we know Adam and Eve never existed as two living individuals so either it's metaphorical or just outright false. Which is it?

[bernee51]

The bible tells us Adam and Eve didn't even need clothes, they radiated glory.

That is EXACTLY what I was saying above...'Adam and Eve' didn't need cloths because they were as the higher mammals are today - they had not yet evolved self reflective consciousness.

If you have never been in the manifested presence of the Most High, you wouldn't know what this is what I am talking about.

I know exactly what you are talking about...it is your interpretation that is amiss.

How would you know, for it is lost.

It is not lost - it is merely hidden behind the veil of the illusion of seperate selfhood.

And as long as the church is busy with religion and self-righteousness, it will not happen.

That much is true.

We are the light of the world.

Indeed...once 'enlightened'.

[Yolande]

The bible tells us Adam and Eve didn't even need clothes, they radiated glory.

That is EXACTLY what I was saying above...'Adam and Eve' didn't need cloths because they were as the higher mammals are today - they had not yet evolved self reflective consciousness.

If you have never been in the manifested presence of the Most High, you wouldn't know what this is what I am talking about.

I know exactly what you are talking about...it is your interpretation that is amiss.

How would you know, for it is lost.

It is not lost - it is merely hidden behind the veil of the illusion of seperate selfhood.

And as long as the church is busy with religion and self-righteousness, it will not happen.

That much is true.

We are the light of the world.

Indeed...once 'enlightened'.

Lucifarian illuminism and Godly illuminism is not the same thing.

Lucifarian illuminism has at heart to bring people to the point of thinking themselves to be god.
Of exalting themselves to god status.
Consciousness as you refer to.
And that is all from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Which is the very thing that brought about the loss of glory in the first place.

Living from the Tree of Life, is what will restore the lost glory.
He is the Tree of life. Abiding in Him, is only possible by receiving God's gift of atonement through the precious blood of Jesus the Christ.