Jesus Preached the Gospel of Election ! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All that the Father giveth Me shall come unto me..
Jn 6:
37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Amen, Jesus Himself taught election and special redemption in these very words..
It is very evident from this portion of the Word of God, that the Love Gift of the Father is not all humanity..This is corroborated in Jn 17..
We find throughout the whole chapter of Jn 17 who these special people people are who the Father gave unto the Son..They are those given to Jesus Christ out of the world per jn 17:6
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
In another place Jesus is saying I will declare thy name to my brethren per heb 2:12
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Those that have been singled out of the world, not because of their own freewill, repenting and believing, or doing and working, or anything that man does or think. They have been set apart by the Sovereign, electing, and discriminating eternal purpose of God, from everlasting..
They have been under Gods everlasting purpose of mercy from everlasting to everlasting ps 103:
17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
Notice, this mercy is not for all mankind, but for those who Fear Him..
And fearing Him is not a condition of this mercy, but as a result of it..for none feared God from everlasting of themselves..
So this speaks to eternal election in their Head, the Lord Jesus Christ whom is from everlasting..
Jesus Preached the Gospel of Election !
Moderator: Moderators
Post #21
Well, if you want to talk about gentile ignorance, we can start with not understanding simple chronology.
You insultingly speak of gentile ignorance of covenant while "the Jew wasn't and in fact wailed and rocked at a wall for centuries, and still do ignorantly, praying for and prophesying the Messiah's advent and then when He came they missed Him because they were too proud to be baptized by the Christ's forerunner, John. "
The "wall" was not an issue in Jesus' day. There was no one praying at a banal exterior wall on the edge of the Temple Mount campus in Jesus day. The Western Wall became a possible religious site only after the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in the year 70 AD....40 years after Jesus died. The reason I said "possible" religious site is because, Jews didn't start worshipping there until they were allowed to by the Ottoman Turks in the 16th century.
John the Baptist was an Essene who was taking on the coopted corupt Heordian establishment which pertained to Sadducean Temple Staff, not to Pharisees.
Again, you depart from the topic. Who believes in what messiah does not go directly to issues of election and predestination.
You insultingly speak of gentile ignorance of covenant while "the Jew wasn't and in fact wailed and rocked at a wall for centuries, and still do ignorantly, praying for and prophesying the Messiah's advent and then when He came they missed Him because they were too proud to be baptized by the Christ's forerunner, John. "
The "wall" was not an issue in Jesus' day. There was no one praying at a banal exterior wall on the edge of the Temple Mount campus in Jesus day. The Western Wall became a possible religious site only after the Temple was destroyed by the Romans in the year 70 AD....40 years after Jesus died. The reason I said "possible" religious site is because, Jews didn't start worshipping there until they were allowed to by the Ottoman Turks in the 16th century.
John the Baptist was an Essene who was taking on the coopted corupt Heordian establishment which pertained to Sadducean Temple Staff, not to Pharisees.
Again, you depart from the topic. Who believes in what messiah does not go directly to issues of election and predestination.
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InTheFlesh
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Post #22
As far as the OP,
[15] And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Cain and Abel.[24] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
[26] But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
[28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this.
Pss.150
[6] Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
[6] Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
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CalvinismIsHeresy
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Post #24
My point was that the Jew has been praying for and prophesying the coming of Messiah since before He came and now after He came. I think its notable that you would hang your hat on an insignificant detail like an error in chronology and not address any of the real issues I brought to the table. Despite chronological accuracy, I think the situation is you got smashed by my last post so you attacked isolated irrelevancies in my post and followed it up by making an outlandish, unfalsifiable claim about John the Baptist. Most people will do what you did though, and make claim or claims concerning the topic have no real recorded place in historical actuality. Im here to help though. You just have to let me help.
Post #25
Your demeanor on this thread is racist.
The manner in which asserted a juvenile description of Jewish prayer "wailed and rocked at a wall".
1. Prayer at the western wall is prayer that goes on anywhere...prayers appointed for the period of the day...or prayers of personal concern. Is is okay if a Jew prays for his sick daughter even if it's at the western wall?
2. Jewish prayer movement which you castigate in a derogatory manner has nothing at all to do with lamentation. Rather, just the opposite. They have to do with the positive joy and love for God.
3. Your description of Jews as "The Jew" is entirely racist. Jews are disparate in theological belief and culture such that boiling them all down to "The Jew" on the matter of belief in the Messiah is just flat out racist. Messianic expectancy and theory has always been episodic and diverse. You ignore different interpretations within Judaism as to what a messiah is. You ignore that periods of messianic expectancy come and go and are not the oldest of Hebrew traditions. You ignore that there are two distinctly different messianic traditions as to expectation of persons...messiah son of Joseph and messiah son of david. You ignore that many Jewish messianic claimants have come and gone and that there is this very day a Jewish claimant to be the messiah. All these disparate messianic themes within Judaism you obviously know nothing of, yet you assert an authority to describe Jews themselves as "The Jew" on the basis of your totally made up assertion that there is Jewish uniformity on messianism. There is not. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in regard to Jewish civilization.
The manner in which asserted a juvenile description of Jewish prayer "wailed and rocked at a wall".
1. Prayer at the western wall is prayer that goes on anywhere...prayers appointed for the period of the day...or prayers of personal concern. Is is okay if a Jew prays for his sick daughter even if it's at the western wall?
2. Jewish prayer movement which you castigate in a derogatory manner has nothing at all to do with lamentation. Rather, just the opposite. They have to do with the positive joy and love for God.
3. Your description of Jews as "The Jew" is entirely racist. Jews are disparate in theological belief and culture such that boiling them all down to "The Jew" on the matter of belief in the Messiah is just flat out racist. Messianic expectancy and theory has always been episodic and diverse. You ignore different interpretations within Judaism as to what a messiah is. You ignore that periods of messianic expectancy come and go and are not the oldest of Hebrew traditions. You ignore that there are two distinctly different messianic traditions as to expectation of persons...messiah son of Joseph and messiah son of david. You ignore that many Jewish messianic claimants have come and gone and that there is this very day a Jewish claimant to be the messiah. All these disparate messianic themes within Judaism you obviously know nothing of, yet you assert an authority to describe Jews themselves as "The Jew" on the basis of your totally made up assertion that there is Jewish uniformity on messianism. There is not. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in regard to Jewish civilization.
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CalvinismIsHeresy
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Post #26
Mmmk. Let me help. I said the Jew in the exact way I said the Gentile. Grow up and stop trying to make this a race war. I said I love Israel and I don't boast against the natural branches. And as far as the wailing and rocking at the wall is concerned, I rock the same way in Church on Sunday morning during worship. I wasn't being racist. Anyways....way to dance around the real issues again. Here to help.
Post #27
Again, you are being racist.
You assert that all Jews hold to the same (yours) notion of messiah. Not only is your assertion completely uninformed, but you assign it to all Jews. You cannot recite the various differences in messianic belief between different Jewish groups. They are substantial including the fact that Reform and Reconstructionist don't believe in individual messiah at all.
Again, your completely uniformed context glares like the noon day sun when you put "wail" and "rock" together. You have no understanding of Jewish prayer.
And again, any theory as to what or who a messiah is, has nothing to do with election. Election, in its teleological aspects, has to do with the messianic age, But, the teleology is only a fragment of the role of election in the daily lives of flesh and blood real Jews...in contrast to your made up gentile racist storybook notion of "The Jew".
You assert that all Jews hold to the same (yours) notion of messiah. Not only is your assertion completely uninformed, but you assign it to all Jews. You cannot recite the various differences in messianic belief between different Jewish groups. They are substantial including the fact that Reform and Reconstructionist don't believe in individual messiah at all.
Again, your completely uniformed context glares like the noon day sun when you put "wail" and "rock" together. You have no understanding of Jewish prayer.
And again, any theory as to what or who a messiah is, has nothing to do with election. Election, in its teleological aspects, has to do with the messianic age, But, the teleology is only a fragment of the role of election in the daily lives of flesh and blood real Jews...in contrast to your made up gentile racist storybook notion of "The Jew".
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CalvinismIsHeresy
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Post #29
You have a fairy tale definition of what Jews are that is completely ignorant of their particulars in all their various disparate theological and cultural variances. You assert that all Jews are the same, and that's racism.
And as the variances exist today, so also in the New Testament era. Yet, you assert your ahistorical agenda based a made up racist monolith "The Jew". This is how anti-semites have always talked. "The Jew" this..."The Jew" that....as if everyone surely understands what you mean when you say "The Jew".
Your lame defense that you also say "the gentile" is even more ridiculous given the even greater plurality among gentiles.
And as the variances exist today, so also in the New Testament era. Yet, you assert your ahistorical agenda based a made up racist monolith "The Jew". This is how anti-semites have always talked. "The Jew" this..."The Jew" that....as if everyone surely understands what you mean when you say "The Jew".
Your lame defense that you also say "the gentile" is even more ridiculous given the even greater plurality among gentiles.
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CalvinismIsHeresy
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Post #30
REGARDLESS of what their flip-flip, heresy, tossed by the wind belief system is at the time, Scripture still categorizes the world into three peoples. The Jew, The Gentile, and the Church. It couldn't be more irrelevant what the crazy antichrist kaballahist Jew, or the planet worshiping new age Gentile thinks about the Messiah or whether or not they believe in one. Couldnt be more irrelevant. They are still Jews (an elected but disobedient nation) and Gentiles (an unelected heathen nation). The only group of people, that currently are supposed to and do have a Biblical belief system is the Church, or the body of Christ. The individuality of the Jew and the Gentile couldn't be more irrelevant. Couldnt be. It so doesn't even register on any scale of importance. The only thing that would matter is if an unbelieving Jew or Gentile would believe in his heart that God raised Christ Jesus from the dead and confess it with his mouth that Jesus is Lord. He would then be saved, regardless of if he was a Jew or Gentile, God is no respecter of persons, and he would no longer be a Jew or a Gentile as Scripture says. He would be a new creation in Christ Jesus our Lord. So i speak generally about THE Jew and THE Gentile because God does in His Holy Word. God is not a respecter of persons. Neither am I.
