Paedobaptism

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:54 am

Question for debate, "Is the baptism of babies and children justified?"

There are no instructions or examples of the baptism of babies or children in the Bible, yet many Christian churches (Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist and others) perform baptism on babies. Why?

Other Christian churches (Baptist, Anabaptist, Restoration, Mormon, Pentecostal, Orthodox and others) will only baptize those who can themselves profess belief.

Can either practice be taught biblically? Should one or the other side of this division between Christians give up their practice for the sake of Christian unity?

kayky · Post by **kayky** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:57 pm

Seijun wrote: What terms does the child agree to when entering the contract with the congregation?

It is very similar to the contract between parent and child--simply extended to a larger "family." The child's side of the "agreement" would be one of obedience and respect until reaching an age at which he or she can make his or her own decisions.

TXatheist · Post by **TXatheist** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:59 pm

kayky wrote:
Seijun wrote: What terms does the child agree to when entering the contract with the congregation?
It is very similar to the contract between parent and child--simply extended to a larger "family." The child's side of the "agreement" would be one of obedience and respect until reaching an age at which he or she can make his or her own decisions.

So the child unknowingly agrees to be obedient and respectful until it has the ability to decide to agree to be obedient and respectful?

kayky · Post by **kayky** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:04 pm

We all hope our children will be obedient and respectful, but it is up to the parents to instill this behavior in children. In the context of the Church, this would involve the child submitting to the teaching of the church and participating in the life of the church. Within the context of the church, "coming of age" would involve Confirmation. This usually occurs during the teenage years or early adulthood and is entirely voluntary.

TXatheist · Post by **TXatheist** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:08 pm

kayky wrote:We all hope our children will be obedient and respectful, but it is up to the parents to instill this behavior in children. In the context of the Church, this would involve the child submitting to the teaching of the church and participating in the life of the church. Within the context of the church, "coming of age" would involve Confirmation. This usually occurs during the teenage years or early adulthood and is entirely voluntary.

Then why is it important to perform a ritual that the infant is oblivious to? Why not wait until the "coming of age" and ask the child if he/she chooses to be baptized and submit to the teaching of the church and participate in the life of the church?

kayky · Post by **kayky** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:15 pm

Seijun wrote: Then why is it important to perform a ritual that the infant is oblivious to? Why not wait until the "coming of age" and ask the child if he/she chooses to be baptized and submit to the teaching of the church and participate in the life of the church?

Most parents want to raise their child in their religion--not simply leave a child to its own devices. As an initiatory act, baptism makes the child a full member of the Church. You must be bapized to partake of the Eucharist, so the child is immediately able to participate in the full life of the Church. It is also important as a ritual to underscore the seriousness for both the parents and the congregation of their role in nurturing the faith of the child.

TXatheist · Post by **TXatheist** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:30 pm

Seijun wrote:Then why is it important to perform a ritual that the infant is oblivious to? Why not wait until the "coming of age" and ask the child if he/she chooses to be baptized and submit to the teaching of the church and participate in the life of the church?

kayky wrote:Most parents want to raise their child in their religion--not simply leave a child to its own devices. As an initiatory act, baptism makes the child a full member of the Church. You must be bapized to partake of the Eucharist, so the child is immediately able to participate in the full life of the Church.

I see. So it is a rule of the church that babies must involuntarily go through the initiation of baptism in order to become members. And this allows the unknowing infant member to unknowingly partake of the Eucharist in order to unknowingly take full part in the church of which it is unaware.

kayky wrote:It is also important as a ritual to underscore the seriousness for both the parents and the congregation of their role in nurturing the faith of the child.

So it is also a physical act that symbolizes the parents' and congregation's seriousness of their role concerning the child. I can't help but notice that while the words "god", "Jesus", and "Christ" have not been mentioned, your replies are peppered with the words "congregation" and "parents." Is this not simply a ritual in order to fulfill the wants of the parents and the church congregation? Isn't it nothing more than a member initiation that makes the parents and congregation feel better?

Can you cite one single infant that was baptized in the bible's new testament?

kayky · Post by **kayky** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:57 pm

Seijun wrote: I see. So it is a rule of the church that babies must involuntarily go through the initiation of baptism in order to become members. And this allows the unknowing infant member to unknowingly partake of the Eucharist in order to unknowingly take full part in the church of which it is unaware.

We strongly recommend that you wait until the child can partake of the Eucharist without choking...Both "awareness" and understanding grow as the child grows.

Seijun wrote: So it is also a physical act that symbolizes the parents' and congregation's seriousness of their role concerning the child. I can't help but notice that while the words "god", "Jesus", and "Christ" have not been mentioned, your replies are peppered with the words "congregation" and "parents." Is this not simply a ritual in order to fulfill the wants of the parents and the church congregation? Isn't it nothing more than a member initiation that makes the parents and congregation feel better?

A sacrament is not meant to make anyone "feel better." It is a vehicle of the grace of God. The value of this to the child grows along with the child's understanding.

Seijun wrote:Can you cite one single infant that was baptized in the bible's new testament?

There is a case in the New Testament where an entire household is baptized, so I suppose it depends on whether or not there were any infants in that household. Infant baptism has been documented since the second century. Limiting baptism to older, consenting converts is a very recent development in Church history.

scottlittlefield17 · Post by **scottlittlefield17** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:54 am

They should not be taking part in communion. Read 1 Cor. 11 second half of the chapter.

kayky · Post by **kayky** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:46 am

I see nothing there that forbids children from partaking in the Eucharist.

scottlittlefield17 · Post by **scottlittlefield17** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:49 am

Babies and small children can not examine themselves. The penalty for not examining yourself well enough was sickness and death from what 1 Cor. 11 says.