Subforum assumption, Bible authority

[daedalus 2.0]

The purpose of this subforum is to have a place to freely engage in debates on Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority. Responses to topics with "but first you have to prove that the Bible is true" is not allowed here.

I agree. This subforum allows the believer to skip the sticky, uncomfortable mess of showing the Bible is true and dive right into their doctrine. This forum needs to be this way because Xians need protection from this basic logical process.

Now, when I reference Andrea Yates or Fred Phelps as an example of the dangers of Xianity, the Xian will say: But you can't judge Xianity by the people who don't represent Xianity.

My question is this: If we are assuming the Bible is an authority - whose authority do we use? All we get are a long list of people who DON'T speak for Xianity, but is there anyone who does? Jesus? But he didn't write anything and the Bible's authority is up to interpretation.

Personally, I like Bob Price's or Bishop Shelby Sprong's interpretation.

Whose authority do you accept as the authority on what authority the Bible holds as authority?

[daedalus 2.0]

You have selected a collection of books not regarded as the Holy Bible held in these sub-forums as the authorized text. Therefore you are found declaring your own standard and rule. I am not surprised.

My court of law analogy perfectly explained my point which obviously you missed, as well as the whole discussion itself. I am not surprised.

Your point was not missed. Your point was wrong.

You are declaring YOUR book the Holy Bible just because some people 300 years after Jesus decided it.

It is your own standard and rule that you pick that book as your bible. You have entered an American courtroom brandishing, essentially, Sharia law.

Your "bible" is an incomplete collection of books contained in the Holy Bible. It is incomplete due to the heretical views of a man the great majority of Bible scholars of his day rejected. Marcion was a fool, making bold statements against even the teachings of Jesus. Therefore Marcion was not a Christian, nor a child of God.

Jesus was heretical to the Pharisees and yet you don't consider him a heretic!

Marcion was the only one who recognized the truth of Jesus from the writings of Luke and Paul. You are trying to use the propaganda of the church to say his canon was incomplete.

Not true. It was complete - your bible adds books that weren't even written when Marcion collected the True Bible. John, for example, was written later and its obvious that John was a total lunatic.

It doesn't suprise me that you accept your collection as gospel. You are like Joseph Smith.

You follow the cherry picked selections of a heretic who attempted to make a liar out of Jesus in his writings. There is only one true Bible, containing all 66 books with no commentary about Jesus denying the God He obeyed was not the God of the Tanach.

So? So what if people add all kinds of crap later. Is the Book of Mormon correct?

Your personal testimony about that is flawed, partly because your testimony now says I might endorse those other religious texts as equal to the Holy Bible. Furthermore, you disparage yur own book of books contained in my Bible. You now say I represent Satan whenever I cite from the books in common?

The end of reason......goodness.

I don't disparage the Holy Bible. Marcion got it right the first time. You are mocking it and God because other people have filled in heretical views. Your New Collection is infected by Satan, as are all your views of Jesus.

Case re-opened for a final judgment. That testimony sounds more like the guy on the corner saying he is Napoleon. Jesus didn't steer you wrong...Satan did.

That's right. It does sound crazy to you because the Words of God are crazy to Satan and his followers. You reject the Light because you are so filled with darkness.

[JoeyKnothead]

The Bible gives anyone the authority to call you any name they wish, as long as it is in the Bible, when you reply in kind you will be censored, and shouted down.

[Word_Swordsman]

You have selected a collection of books not regarded as the Holy Bible held in these sub-forums as the authorized text. Therefore you are found declaring your own standard and rule. I am not surprised.

My court of law analogy perfectly explained my point which obviously you missed, as well as the whole discussion itself. I am not surprised.

Your point was not missed. Your point was wrong.

You are declaring YOUR book the Holy Bible just because some people 300 years after Jesus decided it.

You are wrong about history and the canon process. The books of the Bible were decided by the CHURCH, not the councils. The councils merely listed those letters regarded by the churches as authentic.

It is your own standard and rule that you pick that book as your bible. You have entered an American courtroom brandishing, essentially, Sharia law.

You come in brandishing false testimony. I acknowledge the Holy Bible as accepted by the CHURCH, not my own picking of letters already accepted by the first Church.

Your "bible" is an incomplete collection of books contained in the Holy Bible. It is incomplete due to the heretical views of a man the great majority of Bible scholars of his day rejected. Marcion was a fool, making bold statements against even the teachings of Jesus. Therefore Marcion was not a Christian, nor a child of God.

Jesus was heretical to the Pharisees and yet you don't consider him a heretic!

Of course Jesus was considered heretical by them. Jesus was inaugurating the new covenant the prophets foretold would come. Whatever generation that came to would have been considered a major threat to the status quo. All opponents of Jesus in every generation will continue to denounce Jesus until Jesus reigns from Jerusalem!

Marcion was the only one who recognized the truth of Jesus from the writings of Luke and Paul. You are trying to use the propaganda of the church to say his canon was incomplete.

Marcion ignored the recorded testimony of Jesus according to later theologians who apparently read his works. You promote Marconism propaganda, which was soundly rejected in Marcion's time and after. You can't even really show his writings, which were lost, partially assumed as to content from the writings of Tertullian and others. God saw fit not to protect Marcion's works.

Not true. It was complete - your bible adds books that weren't even written when Marcion collected the True Bible. John, for example, was written later and its obvious that John was a total lunatic.

Marcion apparently assumed God was not finished inspiring of the writing of His word. At best he collected whatever copies of manuscripts available to him. No serious theologian can show John was not inspired. We do know of Marcion that he erroneously misidentified Jehovah of the Hebrew bible as not being the same god of Jesus. Jesus' testimony refuted that very solidly. Therefore, whatever documents attributed to Marcion are based on error and are not worthy of serious consideration.

It doesn't suprise me that you accept your collection as gospel. You are like Joseph Smith.

You seem very desperate. What I have written has no resemblance to Smith and his discovery of a totally unsupported, unverified source. He said he found something that nobody else witnessed.

You follow the cherry picked selections of a heretic who attempted to make a liar out of Jesus in his writings. There is only one true Bible, containing all 66 books with no commentary about Jesus denying the God He obeyed was not the God of the Tanach.

So? So what if people add all kinds of crap later. Is the Book of Mormon correct?

The Book of Mormon is based on an unsupported story with no witnesses. The ancient Christian councils saw to the business of excluding similar unverified claims of inspiration.

Your personal testimony about that is flawed, partly because your testimony now says I might endorse those other religious texts as equal to the Holy Bible. Furthermore, you disparage yur own book of books contained in my Bible. You now say I represent Satan whenever I cite from the books in common?

The end of reason......goodness.

I don't disparage the Holy Bible. Marcion got it right the first time. You are mocking it and God because other people have filled in heretical views. Your New Collection is infected by Satan, as are all your views of Jesus.

Marcion didn't collect the whole of inspired scriptures in time to include the whole. His conclusions about Jehovah were deeply flawed, and his doctrines at best incomplete, therefore error-filled. You have no evidence for your claims the books not collected by Marcion are of Satan. That is your mere opinion, unfounded and ludicrous.

Case re-opened for a final judgment. That testimony sounds more like the guy on the corner saying he is Napoleon. Jesus didn't steer you wrong...Satan did.

That's right. It does sound crazy to you because the Words of God are crazy to Satan and his followers. You reject the Light because you are so filled with darkness.

I see you resort to personal attack rather than facts.

[daedalus 2.0]

That testimony sounds more like the guy on the corner saying he is Napoleon. Jesus didn't steer you wrong...Satan did.

I see you resort to personal attack rather than facts.

WS, can't you see how Satan has befuddled your mind?

You can't accept God's Word, you can't see the Light because of the Darkness that Binds you. You keep promoting the heretical church's propaganda who developed their canon through political wrangling and Satan's council.

Then you call me crazy - and then accuse me of attacking you personally!

Repent, my friend. I love you and Jesus loves you and you must walk towards the light. Accept Jesus as Lord - not the false god you worship now.

[HHB2/3FA]

How do you debate with anyone who thinks anything not said in the bible is satan? The bible says god can heal all things, but he just doesn't seem to care for amputees at all.

[daedalus 2.0]

How do you debate with anyone who thinks anything not said in the bible is satan? The bible says god can heal all things, but he just doesn't seem to care for amputees at all.

Obviously, God let them get amputated in the first place as a sign. Why would God undo work that he has done? God makes things right in the end, not in the begining. Yahweh create the world in sin and malice and Jesus (PBUH) is just trying to make things right.

The is One Word to rule over all and bind all the darkness into Light. There is nothing that God does that is a mistake. Killing children is one of those things that disbelievers can't understand. But how hard is it to understand? God makes children suffer and die to teach you a lesson. See how they are starving? Do you want that? Do you want to catch a disease? AIDS? Hodgkins?

Want to debate? Debate against God when you meet Him in His Glorious Heavenly Throne in His Heavenly Heaven without the Word of Jesus! See how far you get! Only Jesus can get you through. And you can only know Jesus through Marcion's Canon (PHUH).

[Word_Swordsman]

How do you debate with anyone who thinks anything not said in the bible is satan? The bible says god can heal all things, but he just doesn't seem to care for amputees at all.

The rules for these sub forums discourage debate, this being a place to make comments on a subject, partly to get to know one another. I have not seen true debate here anyway. Some folks make comments about the Bible that have no foundation in the Bible, so apparently it is OK to point that out with what the
Bible does say.

Anyway, I would like to see you expand on that idea of yours. Who said that about "anything not said in the bible is satan"? I would take issue with that statement.

I attend as many evangelical crusades as possible in my area, and try hard to take someone along needing healing. So far not one amputee has been willing to go. I haven't seen anyone attending any meeting featuring a healing service where the power of God is expected based on previous events. I must assume none have enough faith to bother going, not expecting anything. In that case no healing would happen anyway. So many are resolved to believe false teachings "God wanted to humble" a person through loss of limb. I almost got a marine with a lost hand to go but he backed out, saying later the loss of the hand has brought him closer to God. Before losing it he knew he didn't know God. If a healing attempt failed it might damage his new faith. I think I understand that, and must accept his decision.

[daedalus 2.0]

That's right, WS. We agree. Amputees should either find Jesus or shut up. Better two arms and a leg go to Hell than their soul.

Im sure they were struck down because of their actions and Satanic worship. Especially those people born with one arm, or no limbs. Damn sinners. Why do they do that, WS? Why do they start sinning so early? Even in the womb?

Have we Christians abandoned our call; our Minisrty to the least among us? Those still in the womb?

I am going to increase my efforts and start preaching to womens ovaries. Maybe then we can finally get some Xians born without a dogged determination to follow Satan. I will blast Marcion's Canon at 90 decibels to women's wombs. Praise Jesus! (PBUH)

I will charge you with the task of orating to men's scrotums so we can lick Satan before he germinates in the womb.

[HHB2/3FA]

My reference to Satan being the bogeyman for all that ails Christian fundies is well founded, historically, and in what I have seen in some of these forums.

So you're saying a Christian don't want his hand back, but like daedalus said, what about those born with malformed limbs? I know a kid about 16 years old now who has a malformed arm, real shorter than the other, and he would love to have it healed. He used to pray for it to get healed before church every Sunday, and then some. He's a good kid, never caused no one any harm, why can't he get healed?

See here's the thing. I wager you will say the kid either don't believe strong enough, God don't want to heal him, Or Satan is preventing it. So which is it and lets go from there.

[Jester]

You seem very desperate.

That is your mere opinion, unfounded and ludicrous.

Jesus didn't steer you wrong...Satan did.

Moderator Note:

Personal judgments of character will convince neither the people with whom you are debating, nor anyone who happens across the post. It only serves to derail debates and make people angry. As per the rules, refrain from using them.

That's right. It does sound crazy to you because the Words of God are crazy to Satan and his followers. You reject the Light because you are so filled with darkness.

The same can be said here as well. If you actually are interested in changing the opinions of others, logic and courtesy go much farther than statements of condemnation. These comments are only productive if you are looking to be banned from the site.