Subforum assumption, Bible authority

[daedalus 2.0]

The purpose of this subforum is to have a place to freely engage in debates on Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority. Responses to topics with "but first you have to prove that the Bible is true" is not allowed here.

I agree. This subforum allows the believer to skip the sticky, uncomfortable mess of showing the Bible is true and dive right into their doctrine. This forum needs to be this way because Xians need protection from this basic logical process.

Now, when I reference Andrea Yates or Fred Phelps as an example of the dangers of Xianity, the Xian will say: But you can't judge Xianity by the people who don't represent Xianity.

My question is this: If we are assuming the Bible is an authority - whose authority do we use? All we get are a long list of people who DON'T speak for Xianity, but is there anyone who does? Jesus? But he didn't write anything and the Bible's authority is up to interpretation.

Personally, I like Bob Price's or Bishop Shelby Sprong's interpretation.

Whose authority do you accept as the authority on what authority the Bible holds as authority?

[daedalus 2.0]

It is one thing to get a Sunday school version of the 19th century bible believer's interpretaion but as a debating forum I think the threats of hell and blaming everything on Satan borders on childish.

But certainly the Bible supports these threats to infidels. I don't think you can separate them. In this subforum the Bible is the word of God. If God says it, it isn't childish, it's Divine.

In other subforums it is considered vastly inappropriate, but here, where the Bible has authority it is not up to our interpretation. We can only express what the Bible says - not if it is right, wrong, childish or divine.

This is the nature of religion. God says it, you do it - no "or else". If the Bible says infidels burn in Hell, then saying it is not childish. It's pious.

[faith]

That is your claim. However, your viewpoint seems to be very divergent from other Christians. You also quoted from one of the Gospels, which means you 'took instruction' from that Gospel.

The evidence I see is that you were not taught by God. My evidence was the extremely poor advice you gave that young man who wanted to be with his girl friend. Someone who was taught by God would not have given such unwise advice.

Considering the very unwise advice you gave, how can you show me you were 'taught by God', rather than just making it up as you go along, and fool yourself that it was from God?

Hello Goat,

You miss some elementary truths from what it means to be taught by God.

1. Scriptures all came to man from God through the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (King James Version)
20.Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2.Believers in the new covenant are meant to be taught by the same Spirit.

John 16:13 (King James Version)
13.Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

3. The truth be it in written form from men or spoken oral was done so through men by the power of Gods Spirit. The same Spirit brought all teachings to man in scripture and in this present day who follow the truth.

1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

As you see Goat you foolishly repeat things others say but you show clearly you had no knowledge to justify believing it or repeating it.
The scriptures about God teaching us is very clear as is the covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
All said without insult.

Love Faith.xx

Well, I am not sure I am 'foolishly' repeating things others say.. I have my own knowledge.

It was not meant as a slight or insult.
It is never about having to be right or wrong. It is about learning truth.
You think God just leaves us to fend for ourselves. Well he doesn't.

And, oh, your interpretation of Jeremiah is wrong. It is, after all, from what you call the "Old Testaament", which was just not good enough for you Christians. You called out scriptures "OLD" and said you had 'NEW' scriptures.. but, if you want ot know how to interpret the "old" testament, you really should ask a Jewish person. after all, it is OUR book, not yours.

My grandmother was a Jewess as was her parents Reuben and Ada.
So it is mine too. Since a child God has been in my life and I have seen the hurt caused by pride due to those who think they have an upper hand on scripture.
Do you think being Jewish somehow makes us the only people God can teach?
God is not a manmade commodity which we can bend and shape into whoever and whatever we want him to be. I know scripture Gods way. If that offends then is it because you only have mans version of that teaching. Jews have changed their mind about scripture to make it fit in with the world. When you know God, you see scripture fits in with his Glory and power being the true all powerful being who created all flesh. If you believe the bible to be myth then you make your God to be myth too.

And, you see, when you talk of prophecy from the Old Testament, you are using your private interpretation, not the 'Holy Spirits'. This can be shown since there are a variety of different interpretations of the various 'prophecies' , even by you Christians.

I am a child of God born of the tribes of Israel and a descendant of Abraham whom God has taught from being an infant. If you have a problem with what I believe, then take it up with him. Seeing as you claim to know him. Better still why not ask God for a sign or can you not trust him to give you one?
There is the gauntlet. Ask God for a sign that I am his....

Love Faith.xx

Ps your not putting him to the test. Your asking him to make you wise to the truth about me..I am sure he is there. Are you?

[faith]

I was not taught by another man. I was taught by God as the covenant said we would be. There are others also who are like myself. The words of the gospel has to be heard and recieved to become part of that covenant. So the gospel message must be told in order for this to take place.

Did God speak to you from a burning bush? Did he call to you from the next room?
If you are like most, the teachings and wisdom you attribute to God, you have received from other humans, pastors, parents, apostles, prophets and the like.

No! My memory goes back to being in my pram. I have known God is real since childhood. It was a shock to find out that other people didn't. Why does everyone look for something dramatic like a burning bush or a road to damascus enlightenment?

Perhaps god should be required to audition for the part?

Perhaps you might like to ask him and let me know what he says?

Love Faith.xx

[Word_Swordsman]

The Bible can only mean ONE thing: God's Bible. The Word. This can ONLY mean Marcion's Bible. He was inspired by God and rightly rejected all other texts in favor of the truth.

Marcion's foolish contentions were soundly rejected and remains rejected by the Church. Do you see it offered on book store shelves? I don't. It is a relic of the past, the result of a man who rejected God of the Tanach and of Christ. You keep to a publication the Spirit of God refused to promote among men.

[daedalus 2.0]

The Bible can only mean ONE thing: God's Bible. The Word. This can ONLY mean Marcion's Bible. He was inspired by God and rightly rejected all other texts in favor of the truth.

Marcion's foolish contentions were soundly rejected and remains rejected by the Church.

The Heretical Church of Satan, maybe.

[faith]

The Bible can only mean ONE thing: God's Bible. The Word. This can ONLY mean Marcion's Bible. He was inspired by God and rightly rejected all other texts in favor of the truth.

Marcion's foolish contentions were soundly rejected and remains rejected by the Church.

The Heretical Church of Satan, maybe.

Hi Daedalus,

I cannot believe you still saying the 'heretical Church of satan.

[daedalus 2.0]

The Bible can only mean ONE thing: God's Bible. The Word. This can ONLY mean Marcion's Bible. He was inspired by God and rightly rejected all other texts in favor of the truth.

Marcion's foolish contentions were soundly rejected and remains rejected by the Church.

The Heretical Church of Satan, maybe.

Hi Daedalus,

I cannot believe you still saying the 'heretical Church of satan.

I can't either! You'd think I wouldn't have to. You'd think people would stop following the wrong Bible.

[faith]

The Bible can only mean ONE thing: God's Bible. The Word. This can ONLY mean Marcion's Bible. He was inspired by God and rightly rejected all other texts in favor of the truth.

Marcion's foolish contentions were soundly rejected and remains rejected by the Church.

The Heretical Church of Satan, maybe.

Hi Daedalus,

I cannot believe you still saying the 'heretical Church of satan.

I can't either! You'd think I wouldn't have to. You'd think people would stop following the wrong Bible.

They say practice makes perfect so you have a lifetime to get it right.

Love Faith.xx

[daedalus 2.0]

The Bible can only mean ONE thing: God's Bible. The Word. This can ONLY mean Marcion's Bible. He was inspired by God and rightly rejected all other texts in favor of the truth.

Marcion's foolish contentions were soundly rejected and remains rejected by the Church.

The Heretical Church of Satan, maybe.

Hi Daedalus,

I cannot believe you still saying the 'heretical Church of satan.

I can't either! You'd think I wouldn't have to. You'd think people would stop following the wrong Bible.

They say practice makes perfect so you have a lifetime to get it right.

Love Faith.xx

Not to bring it into the real world, but, while you are true that all people have a lifetie to get it right, some people only live a few years and die before they can read.

What then?

[faith]

The Bible can only mean ONE thing: God's Bible. The Word. This can ONLY mean Marcion's Bible. He was inspired by God and rightly rejected all other texts in favor of the truth.

Marcion's foolish contentions were soundly rejected and remains rejected by the Church.

The Heretical Church of Satan, maybe.

Hi Daedalus,

I cannot believe you still saying the 'heretical Church of satan.

I can't either! You'd think I wouldn't have to. You'd think people would stop following the wrong Bible.

They say practice makes perfect so you have a lifetime to get it right.

Love Faith.xx

Not to bring it into the real world, but, while you are true that all people have a lifetie to get it right, some people only live a few years and die before they can read.

What then?

Do you think God had not thought about that one?
The Children already have a place with the Lord, but you already knew that.
So there is a follow up to this. Come on DD don't keep waiting what have you to tell me further on the matter.

Love Faith.xx