Which genealogy is right?

[Undertow]

Which genealogy is right? (In the KJV)

In Matthew 1:2-16 the genealogy from Abraham right down to Jesus consists of 41 people. "x begat x begat x begat x..."

Abraham – Isaac – Jacob – Judas – Phares – Esrom – Aram – Aminadab – Naasson – Salmon – Booz – Obed – Jesse – David – Solomon – Roboam – Abia – Asa – Josaphat – Joram – Ozias – Joatham – Achaz – Ezekias – Manasses – Amon – Josias – Jechonias – Salathiel – Zorobabel – Abiud – Eliakim – Azor – Sadoc - Achim – Eliud – Eleazar – Matthan – Jacob – Joseph – Jesus.

In Luke 3:23-34 the same genealogy, Abraham to Jesus, consist of 56 people.

Abraham – Isaac – Jacob – Juda – Phares – Esrom – Aram – Aminadab – Naasson – Salmon – Booz – Obed – Jesse – David – Nathan – Mattatha – Menan – Melea – Eliakim – Jonan – Joseph – Juda – Simeon – Levi – Matthat – Jorim – Eliezer – Jose – Er – Elmodam – Cosam – Addi – Melchi – Neri – Salathiel – Zorobabel – Rhesa – Joanna – Juda – Joseph – Semei – Mattathias – Maath – Nagge – Esli – Naum – Amos – Mattathias – Joseph – Janna – Melchi – Levi – Matthat – Heli – Joseph – Jesus.

Which one is right? Obviously they both can't be and if one is wrong then the bible is not inerrant.

[Louis_Cypher]

I am only explaining the acceptance of two different Genealogies for Joseph, There is nothing written of Joseph’s Mother, or that He is such a Child. Just two different Genealogies does not need to be a contradiction.

None of this goes toward explaining the discrepancies between the two linages and thew radically different numbers and names between David and Jesus.

As far as the date using who was recorded in Office during that period of time. I do not know, and how well the material is that information is coming from? And you mention “Herod the Great”, There were more then one Herod, and he was not mentioned as Herod the Great. Matthew recorded Herod died when Jesus was still a Child, and was followed by his son Archelaus.

Herod, father of Archelaus was titled 'Herod the Great' and is credited (only in the NT) with the 'slaughter of the innocents'. All sources I have checked show his death being 4BCE.

You may see a dozen out of context verses to support your math, I see hundreds of Prophecies fulfilled to support God’s. All foretold long before Jesus was Born (Reborn) at Bethlehem.

I don't, how about posting a few of the hundreds and we'll have a look at them.

After all, Do you think the Jewish Nation wanted the New Testament writings to be confirmable? That there were no one trying to undermine the validity? Like so many try today.

How refreshing, the paranoid conspiracy theory lives...

LC >;-}>

[ken1burton]

Louis_Cypher.

Better check out people into Genealogy. Trace two cousin’s Genealogy, You will find many are very different. But the thing with Jewish, is the one who is next of kin, no matter how close, had to be of the Same Tribe. If Joseph’s mother had been married to one of the Tribe of Levi, No matter what tribe she was of, She would have to marry another of the Same tribe of the dead husband, to keep the land in that Tribe’s possession.

You want to use it for a Contradiction, Use it, Mankind can accept any answer they want, or refuse to accept an answer.

Matthew recorded the Slaughter, then Joseph fleeing to Egypt, Then linked a prophecy of calling His Son out of Egypt, All prophecies are for the day of the Cross, Matthew misplaced a lot of them. God uses many similitudes to fulfill all of the words the Prophets wrote.

I just posted a lot of them in the thread “The Genesis Hypothesis” under Interest and topics> Science and Religion> Origins of life> I will paste it here:

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

6 days to create the World? Is a Day 6 days long, with a extra day to rest.? YES it is. This day anyway. It is not the Creation story all by it’s self, But EVERY Word which proceedeth out of the Mouth of God.

So add these other words of God to the Creation sotry:

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

That would place the Beginning or Creation story, to the Day Jesus died on a Hill called Golgotha. So it would have to be the Beginning of the New World, And Jesus declares the end of the Old World.

So the things from ancient times had not yet been done when Isaiah wrote that verse about 712 B.C. The Creation story had not yet happened, The Flood had not happened, Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah’s Ark, Even Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did not happen, God was just speaking of similitudes, for events that would happen.

That means they are prophecies, And all prophecies are for one day. The day of the Cross, From Sunset when the Last Supper began, Till Sunset when Jesus had just been placed in the Sepulchre, The Day of the Lord, or the day of the Cross.

Isaiah 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

This also is a prophecy, And it makes a day into a week. And it is the Day of the Cross because that is the day God heals the people.

God also doubles twice to establish His words, So this week will be seen in Three pictures:

Genesis 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

First picture as 4 6-hour periods seen as 4 beasts with 6-wings in Revelation, as the Four corners of the Earth, As a river divided into four heads (Garden of Eden) as the first 4 days of Genesis, as all the first fours in Revelation.

Second picture as 2 12-hour periods seen as 2 witnesses in Revelation, God doubles the second picture which is a day into a week also, So they see their dead Bodies three days and a half, or half a week each, Life enters into them when the prophecies for these time periods are fulfilled, and all is established as Truth. Second picture is seeing Jesus in hell, or the HEART of the Earth, Together it is the WHOLE Heart, When the people are revived in hell, they are the UPRIGHT in Heart.

Third picture as 1 24-hour period seen as 24 Elders in Revelation, John is in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, Or looking at the day of the Cross.

Each time period has the prophecies foretold that fit in that time, But they are hidden, or as in Darkness (Night or Evening) Then God brings them to pass, or brings them to the Light (Daytime or Morning) So the Evening and Morning is the First day.

If you do not see that, Call it Evening. Now here is the time period seen in LIGHT.

Sunset to Midnight, “Let there be Light” Jesus is talking to the Disciples at the last Supper, later in the Garden. “I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, In My Father’s House are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you, If you have seen Me, You have seen the Father? Is the Light starting to show through?

The First seal is the White Horse, White horse coming in Clouds is Jesus takes sins during that time period:

Isaiah 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

First angel sounds in Revelation and there is “Fire” (God’s word like as a fire in Jeremiah 23:29, as Jesus pours out God’s word) “Hail” (As Judas greets Jesus “Hail Master”) “Mingled with Blood” as Peter cuts off the ear.)

Jesus said what He would do, Now He has to go and do it, so the Rider on the White Horse with is Jesus goes forth conquering and to Conquer.

God saw the Light, and it was Good. The Evening and Morning is the First day, it will be the second day, and the third and all seven.

The day is all the Sevens in the Book of Revelation, The Lamb has seven eyes, the first 4 is tears run down like a river, Divided into 4 heads, But the Second picture is seeing Jesus in hell, a pit wherein is no water, So God wipes away all tears from their eyes, Behold, I make all things new, Or now the Second picture will be seen as 2 12-hour periods, The people in the first picture was as waters, Now they are as sand.

The Fourth river in the Garden (noon to Sunset) was the River Euphrates (Euphrates seen as dried up in Revelation) to prepare for the second picture. God makes a lot of Hints in Scripture to help up put the pieces in the right order, the day as 7 days, seen as 7 trees, So place the trees in the right order, and the prophecies which show those type trees fit in those time periods.

The day of the Cross is as a House built, the name of the Day or House is the “Wilderness” where Jesus was taken by the Spirit to be shown what the day held in store, So He could go back 42 Months and tell the Disciples what must shortly come to pass.

Isaiah 41:19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:

So when God starts to shorten the days. Getting it back to one, Then the Trees are joined, or the trees clap their hands. Second picture as a Desert, Third picture Jesus comes as the Rain, and there are streams in the Desert.

As 4 6-hour periods, 1=Old Heaven, 2=Old Earth, 3=New earth, 4=New Heaven

When God shortens, Old Heaven and Old Earth flee from His Face, seen as the Face of a Man on the third beast with 6-wings which is the Judgment from Sunrise to noon, So the Judgment which was the Black Horse with Balances Now is seen as the great WHITE throne of Judgment.

The day seen as unclean till fulfilled, So as the days are shortened, they are as eyes plucked out, Till thy eye be Single. God them makes the day as Darkness, So it the light in thy eye be Darkness, How Great is that darkness?

Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

The day as 4 6-hour periods as a Sower, Four types of Ground, Wayside is Sunset to Midnight, Disciples are the seeds which fell. Good Ground is Noon to sunset as Jesus died, Day as 3 pictures 30 fold, 60 fold, 100 fold.

Day as 7 unclean spirits (till fulfilled) Day as Leaven hidden in three measures of meal. Day as 7 time periods and three pictures also as days, So ten days total, Lost one of the ten pieces, Search till you find it. Like Lepers, 10 were cleansed, But only one SEEN to give Glory to God, Where are the NINE?

Know one Parable, and you can know them all. Jesus not just reaching for the lost sheep of the House of Israel, But for all mankind, Parable of building bigger barns. Jesus takes them all out of hell (Zechariah 9:11) like a man who goes into a far country to receive a Kingdom and return.

Mark 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

All parables are for the day of the Cross.

The Old World had no beginning (forget that 6,000 year old earth problem) and the New World has no end. The beginning of the World was the New World the day of the Cross, Where the Creation story belongs.

Fourth seal is the Pale Horse, Noon to sunset, Death followed by hell as Jesus died and descended into hell. Fourth day in Genesis, God makes two great lights, Sun seen as the throne in Psalms 89:36, turned to darkness as Jesus died and they think that is the end, Moon seen as the establishment of the throne in Psalms 89:37 turned to blood as the Blood of Christ establishes the Throne.

Fourth angel sounds in Revelation and a third of the Sun, and a third of the Moon is smitten as one of the Three pictures is fulfilled.

Thousands of Prophecies, all for the day of the Cross, Jesus was spiritually dead when He took sin at Midnight, so the second 6-hour period or day He is as in Hell, Then the third 6-hours or third day, “With His stripes we are Healed,” or spiritually Risen from the Dead. Second and third physical days will be future similitudes for things already fulfilled the day of the Cross.

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.


Jesus just has to drink of the fruit of the Vine new with them in the Kingdom, And that Kingdom is here then. And VINEGAR is sufficient as Fruit of the Vine. And allow Himself to die.

29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Nahum 3:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

Lions? Bears? Almost sound like Oz?

Daniel 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Lion, Bear, Then THIRD a Leopard. A Leopard has SPOTS, And the SPOT in Daniel’s four beasts is THIRD.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Easy to have a Leopard change His SPOTS, Just Show the 4 6-hour periods BACKWARDS in Daniel 4-3-2-1 or make the First last, and the Last First, then show it in the right order in Hosea:

Hosea 13:7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them :
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps , and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

Leopard is not in SPOT two. The Black horse of Judgment became the Great White throne, Like a skin color change, But was that likened to Skin Color, The next or fourth was the Pale Horse:

Jeremiah 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

All Faces as Paleness, So the Third was Black and then the faces as white, So the Ethiopian can change His skin. Like the Leopard His Spots.

And there is Jacob, the day of the Cross, Fourth 6-hour period, Jacob wrestles with a man, or Jesus wrestles with Self Preservation, or has to allow Himself to die, He does, then Esau comes. Esau is Edom, Edom seen as a desolate wilderness, or the time Jesus had to be dead. God hated Esau or the time Jesus was dead, Over Edom He cast out His shoe, Jesus took away sins, we are on Holy Ground.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

All fulfilled the day of the Cross. Which is the Beginning.

The Genesis Hypothesis? Thousands of prophecies all for the day of the Cross, all fulfilled in Jesus in ONE DAY. And the Evening and Morning was all God needed. And He saw it was VERY, VERY, Good. And the Seventh day God RESTED with mankind as the Veil was ripped, Sin had been removed (Daniel 9:24) and the Body of Christ with mankind in that Body (Psalms 2:6/7) was Born, He is NOW this day, Immanuel or GOD WITH US.

End of paste on a few of the Hundred.


OH! I thought you knew, Jesus is Paranoid. He thinks people are FOLLOWING HIM.

Ken

[Louis_Cypher]

Louis_Cypher.

Better check out people into Genealogy. Trace two cousin’s Genealogy, You will find many are very different. But the thing with Jewish, is the one who is next of kin, no matter how close, had to be of the Same Tribe. If Joseph’s mother had been married to one of the Tribe of Levi, No matter what tribe she was of, She would have to marry another of the Same tribe of the dead husband, to keep the land in that Tribe’s possession.

You want to use it for a Contradiction, Use it, Mankind can accept any answer they want, or refuse to accept an answer.

This however, goes nowhere in explaining the missing generations between David and Jesus, (or the superfluous ones, depending on which linage you hold to be 'true')

I hesitate to point out, (as it is so often overused and abused), but all you have done is posited an unsupported assumption.

There are three posibilities.
1. Both geniologies are true (probably because of your argument, or a similar one)
2. One geniology is true, the other is a fanciful attempt to fill in the gaps.
3. Both are spurious.

Matthew recorded the Slaughter, then Joseph fleeing to Egypt, Then linked a prophecy of calling His Son out of Egypt, All prophecies are for the day of the Cross, Matthew misplaced a lot of them. God uses many similitudes to fulfill all of the words the Prophets wrote.

However, not a single source can be found that substatiates this event. Even among Herods harshest critics (Josephus comes to mind) not one recorded or commented on this dispicable act.

"Out of Egypt I have called my son,"
Matthew claims that the flight of Jesus' family to Egypt is a fulfillment of Hosea 11:1. But Hosea 11:1 is not a prophecy at all, as is clear when the entire verse is quoted ("When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt."). It is a reference to the Hebrew exodus from Egypt and has nothing to do with Jesus. Matthew tries to hide this fact by quoting only the last part of the verse. 2:15

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

6 days to create the World? Is a Day 6 days long, with a extra day to rest.? YES it is. This day anyway. It is not the Creation story all by it’s self, But EVERY Word which proceedeth out of the Mouth of God.

Or... poetic license on the part of the bronze aged barbarians trying to reconcile various creations stories into one.

...Sunset to Midnight, “Let there be Light” Jesus is talking to the Disciples at the last Supper, later in the Garden. “I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, In My Father’s House are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you, If you have seen Me, You have seen the Father? Is the Light starting to show through?

Yes it is... you are willing to cull disparate verses, toss them together willy nilly, and call the whole nebulous mish-mash 'prophecy'....

I'm sorry Ken. Your ecstatic, breathless hodge podge, filled with dubious and in some cases wildly speculative, non-sensical interpretations failed to convince me.

LC >;-}>

[ken1burton]

Louis_Cypher.

Are the Prophecies for the Messiah which God said is the Son of David? And there are hundreds of Prophecies? And were the prophecies fulfilled in Jesus Christ, That is the Link.

There is no recorded Genealogy, Because Jesus did not come through those people, He is David’s physical Son, Died 7 days after Birth, went to God, was there for 1,000 years, Sent back to be reborn through Mary. There is no person between Jesus and David. So there is no missing generations, Jesus is the Physical Son of David. Not Grandson, not Great Grandson, But David’s SON.

That is why there are two different Genealogies for Jesus, to get people searching for how God could have done it.

Two vessels out of the same lump of clay, Jesus is both persons.

Jeremiah 18:3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it .

The slaughter: Matthew recorded this:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew knows the prophecy for God calling His Son out of Egypt, and I think Matthew assumed it had to have happened, So He wrote that it did:

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Matthew thinks it is talking about Jesus as a Child.

Matthew also knows this verse:

Jeremiah 31:15 Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.

Rahel (Rachel) was buried by Bethlehem.

Jacob got the name Israel as a full grown man, Time of Jacob is noon to sunset, Fourth time period as Jesus dies, The people are converted as Children (Jesus also) in Jeremiah 4:22. (Heart ruptured on cross in 4:19)

The first picture is 1=Babylon, 2=Moab, 3-Damascus. 4-Egypt. Seen as the First 4 Burdens in Isaiah. Jesus dies during the fourth or as in Egypt, Jesus commends His spirit to God, God calls His Son out of Egypt as a CHILD.

When Jesus said “No man cometh unto the Father, But by Me.” the Jewish nation which has been blinded by God in Isaiah 29:10/12 could not come if they wanted, So Spiritually they are dead or “The Children ARE NOT” And Rachel is weeping. But the next verse of the prophecy shows it was not a butcher at Bethlehem.

Jeremiah 31:16 Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.

The Second picture of the day of the Cross is seen as 2 12-hour periods, seeing Jesus in hell, the Jewish People seen as in the HANDS of the Enemy, or as DEAD.

Personally, I think Matthew was a little too eager to link all those prophecies, He knew God had to have had them fulfilled, He just guesses on how that was.

I have a good imagination, But it never got to the point of thinking you would be convinced. But Jesus said to speak in the Light, what He shows in Darkness, and that was done, Also with God’s word not coming back void, Maybe the message was not for you, This is an open Forum and God draws people places. When we seek hard enough, God leads us to where it can be found.

I sure seem to have a lot of Attributes? Thank you,

Ken

[servant]

This is one view (gotquestions.org):

"Jesus' genealogy is given in two places in Scripture, Matthew chapter 1 and Luke chapter 3, verses 23-38. Matthew traces the genealogy from Jesus to Abraham. Luke traces the genealogy from Jesus to Adam. However, there is good reason to believe that Matthew and Luke are in fact tracing entirely different genealogies. For example, Matthew gives Joseph's father as Jacob (Matthew 1:16), while Luke gives Joseph's father as Heli (Luke 3:23). Matthew traces the line through David's son Solomon (Matthew 1:6), while Luke traces the line through David's son Nathan (Luke 3:31). In fact, between David and Jesus, the only names the genealogies have in common are Shealtiel and Zerubbabel (Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27). What is the explanation for these differences?

Some point to these differences as evidence of errors in the Bible. However, the Jews were meticulous record keepers, especially in regards to genealogies. It is inconceivable that Matthew and Luke could build two entirely contradictory genealogies of the same lineage. Again, from David through Jesus, the genealogies are completely different. Even the reference to Shealtiel and Zerubbabel likely refer to different individuals of the same names. Matthew gives Shealtiel's father as Jeconiah while Luke gives Shealtiel's father as Neri. It would be normal for a man named Shealtiel to name his son Zerubbabel in light of the famous individuals of those names (see the books of Ezra and Nehemiah).

Another explanation is that Matthew is tracing the primary lineage while Luke is taking into account the occurrences of "levirite marriage." If a man died without having any sons, it was tradition for the man's brother to marry his wife and have a son who would carry on the man's name. While possible, this view is unlikely as every generation from David to Jesus would have had a "levirite marriage" in order to account for the differences in every generation. This is highly unlikely.

With these concepts in view, most conservative Bible scholars assume Luke is recording Mary’s genealogy and Matthew is recording Joseph’s. Matthew is following the line of Joseph (Jesus’ legal father), through David’s son Solomon, while Luke is following the line of Mary (Jesus’ blood relative), though David’s son Nathan. There was no Greek word for "son-in-law," and Joseph would have been considered a son of Heli through marrying Heli's daughter Mary. Through either line, Jesus is a descendant of David and therefore eligible to be the Messiah. Tracing a genealogy through the mother’s side is unusual, but so was the virgin birth. Luke’s explanation is that Jesus was the son of Joseph “so it was thought” (Luke 3:23)."

Just a note that it would not make since for Luke and Matthew to be so far off regarding this issue. People were being killed for believing in Jesus. If this was a serious problem it would have caused the following of Jesus and the Christian movement to collapse. Just because we don't have a specific answer does not mean the authors were incorrect in their writings.

[Goat]

This is one view (gotquestions.org):

"Jesus' genealogy is given in two places in Scripture, Matthew chapter 1 and Luke chapter 3, verses 23-38. Matthew traces the genealogy from Jesus to Abraham. Luke traces the genealogy from Jesus to Adam. However, there is good reason to believe that Matthew and Luke are in fact tracing entirely different genealogies. For example, Matthew gives Joseph's father as Jacob (Matthew 1:16), while Luke gives Joseph's father as Heli (Luke 3:23). Matthew traces the line through David's son Solomon (Matthew 1:6), while Luke traces the line through David's son Nathan (Luke 3:31). In fact, between David and Jesus, the only names the genealogies have in common are Shealtiel and Zerubbabel (Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27). What is the explanation for these differences?

Some point to these differences as evidence of errors in the Bible. However, the Jews were meticulous record keepers, especially in regards to genealogies. It is inconceivable that Matthew and Luke could build two entirely contradictory genealogies of the same lineage. Again, from David through Jesus, the genealogies are completely different. Even the reference to Shealtiel and Zerubbabel likely refer to different individuals of the same names. Matthew gives Shealtiel's father as Jeconiah while Luke gives Shealtiel's father as Neri. It would be normal for a man named Shealtiel to name his son Zerubbabel in light of the famous individuals of those names (see the books of Ezra and Nehemiah).

Another explanation is that Matthew is tracing the primary lineage while Luke is taking into account the occurrences of "levirite marriage." If a man died without having any sons, it was tradition for the man's brother to marry his wife and have a son who would carry on the man's name. While possible, this view is unlikely as every generation from David to Jesus would have had a "levirite marriage" in order to account for the differences in every generation. This is highly unlikely.

With these concepts in view, most conservative Bible scholars assume Luke is recording Mary’s genealogy and Matthew is recording Joseph’s. Matthew is following the line of Joseph (Jesus’ legal father), through David’s son Solomon, while Luke is following the line of Mary (Jesus’ blood relative), though David’s son Nathan. There was no Greek word for "son-in-law," and Joseph would have been considered a son of Heli through marrying Heli's daughter Mary. Through either line, Jesus is a descendant of David and therefore eligible to be the Messiah. Tracing a genealogy through the mother’s side is unusual, but so was the virgin birth. Luke’s explanation is that Jesus was the son of Joseph “so it was thought” (Luke 3:23)."

Just a note that it would not make since for Luke and Matthew to be so far off regarding this issue. People were being killed for believing in Jesus. If this was a serious problem it would have caused the following of Jesus and the Christian movement to collapse. Just because we don't have a specific answer does not mean the authors were incorrect in their writings.

From the scripture, show which line was Mary's, and which one was Jospehs.

Show that a liverite marriage is legit when discussing the seed off david (see
the Jewish laws on adoption and bloodlines for the relevent information on this).


Sorry, but the mental gymnastics and the ignoring of Jewish law and tradition about bloodlines makes the excuse given incorrect.

[Easyrider]

Show that a liverite marriage is legit when discussing the seed off david (see
the Jewish laws on adoption and bloodlines for the relevent information on this).

Sorry, but the mental gymnastics and the ignoring of Jewish law and tradition about bloodlines makes the excuse given incorrect.

You need to study up more on ancient Jewish customs, Goat.

Tu B'Av

Tu B'Av, the 15th Day of Av, is both an ancient and modern holiday. Originally a post-biblical day of joy, it served as a matchmaking day for unmarried women in the second Temple period (before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.).

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel is quoted saying, "There were no better (i.e. happier) days for the people of Israel than the Fifteenth of Av and Yom Kippur, since on these days the daughters of Israel/Jerusalem go out dressed in white and dance in the vineyards. What were they saying: Young man, consider whom you choose (to be your wife)…"( Taanit, Chapter 4).

The Gemara (the later, interpretive layer of the Talmud) attempts to find the origin of this date as a special joyous day, and offers several explanations. One of them is that on this day the Biblical "tribes of Israel were permitted to mingle with each other," namely: to marry women from other tribes (Talmud, Taanit 30b). This explanation is somewhat surprising, since nowhere in the Bible is there a prohibition on "intermarriage" among the 12 tribes of Israel. This Talmudic source probably is alluding to a story in the book of Judges (chapter 21): After a civil war between the tribe of Benjamin and other Israelite tribes, the tribes vowed not to intermarry with men of the tribe of Benjamin.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/holiday ... Tu_BAv.htm

[Goat]

Show that a liverite marriage is legit when discussing the seed off david (see
the Jewish laws on adoption and bloodlines for the relevent information on this).

Sorry, but the mental gymnastics and the ignoring of Jewish law and tradition about bloodlines makes the excuse given incorrect.

You need to study up more on ancient Jewish customs, Goat.

Tu B'Av

Tu B'Av, the 15th Day of Av, is both an ancient and modern holiday. Originally a post-biblical day of joy, it served as a matchmaking day for unmarried women in the second Temple period (before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.).

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel is quoted saying, "There were no better (i.e. happier) days for the people of Israel than the Fifteenth of Av and Yom Kippur, since on these days the daughters of Israel/Jerusalem go out dressed in white and dance in the vineyards. What were they saying: Young man, consider whom you choose (to be your wife)…"( Taanit, Chapter 4).

The Gemara (the later, interpretive layer of the Talmud) attempts to find the origin of this date as a special joyous day, and offers several explanations. One of them is that on this day the Biblical "tribes of Israel were permitted to mingle with each other," namely: to marry women from other tribes (Talmud, Taanit 30b). This explanation is somewhat surprising, since nowhere in the Bible is there a prohibition on "intermarriage" among the 12 tribes of Israel. This Talmudic source probably is alluding to a story in the book of Judges (chapter 21): After a civil war between the tribe of Benjamin and other Israelite tribes, the tribes vowed not to intermarry with men of the tribe of Benjamin.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/holiday ... Tu_BAv.htm

And, how does that change the bloodline? It makes sure that you don't have inbred, but the bloodlines follow the male line...unbroken.. father to father. Adopted children follow their real fathers bloodline, not their adoptive father's bloodline.

Your quote has nothing to do with what I pointed out. Do TRY to read sometime.

[Easyrider]

Show that a liverite marriage is legit when discussing the seed off david (see
the Jewish laws on adoption and bloodlines for the relevent information on this).

Sorry, but the mental gymnastics and the ignoring of Jewish law and tradition about bloodlines makes the excuse given incorrect.

You need to study up more on ancient Jewish customs, Goat.

Tu B'Av

Tu B'Av, the 15th Day of Av, is both an ancient and modern holiday. Originally a post-biblical day of joy, it served as a matchmaking day for unmarried women in the second Temple period (before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.).

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel is quoted saying, "There were no better (i.e. happier) days for the people of Israel than the Fifteenth of Av and Yom Kippur, since on these days the daughters of Israel/Jerusalem go out dressed in white and dance in the vineyards. What were they saying: Young man, consider whom you choose (to be your wife)…"( Taanit, Chapter 4).

The Gemara (the later, interpretive layer of the Talmud) attempts to find the origin of this date as a special joyous day, and offers several explanations. One of them is that on this day the Biblical "tribes of Israel were permitted to mingle with each other," namely: to marry women from other tribes (Talmud, Taanit 30b). This explanation is somewhat surprising, since nowhere in the Bible is there a prohibition on "intermarriage" among the 12 tribes of Israel. This Talmudic source probably is alluding to a story in the book of Judges (chapter 21): After a civil war between the tribe of Benjamin and other Israelite tribes, the tribes vowed not to intermarry with men of the tribe of Benjamin.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/holiday ... Tu_BAv.htm

And, how does that change the bloodline? It makes sure that you don't have inbred, but the bloodlines follow the male line...unbroken.. father to father. Adopted children follow their real fathers bloodline, not their adoptive father's bloodline.

Your quote has nothing to do with what I pointed out. Do TRY to read sometime.

The bloodline of Christ goes straight back to King David.

Now, tell me why King David has a gentile in his lineage?

[Goat]

The bloodline of Christ goes straight back to King David.

Now, tell me why King David has a gentile in his lineage?

The bloodlines are fictitious and irrelevant. The Messiah was supposed to be from an unbroken male line from David through Solomon. Jesus is not supposed to be the son of Joesph.. and Mary's lineage would be unimportant for the bloodline.

Therefore, by the Christian insistence that Jesus is not Josephs biological son, that
eliminates Jesus by being the Messiah.