Which genealogy is right?

[Undertow]

Which genealogy is right? (In the KJV)

In Matthew 1:2-16 the genealogy from Abraham right down to Jesus consists of 41 people. "x begat x begat x begat x..."

Abraham – Isaac – Jacob – Judas – Phares – Esrom – Aram – Aminadab – Naasson – Salmon – Booz – Obed – Jesse – David – Solomon – Roboam – Abia – Asa – Josaphat – Joram – Ozias – Joatham – Achaz – Ezekias – Manasses – Amon – Josias – Jechonias – Salathiel – Zorobabel – Abiud – Eliakim – Azor – Sadoc - Achim – Eliud – Eleazar – Matthan – Jacob – Joseph – Jesus.

In Luke 3:23-34 the same genealogy, Abraham to Jesus, consist of 56 people.

Abraham – Isaac – Jacob – Juda – Phares – Esrom – Aram – Aminadab – Naasson – Salmon – Booz – Obed – Jesse – David – Nathan – Mattatha – Menan – Melea – Eliakim – Jonan – Joseph – Juda – Simeon – Levi – Matthat – Jorim – Eliezer – Jose – Er – Elmodam – Cosam – Addi – Melchi – Neri – Salathiel – Zorobabel – Rhesa – Joanna – Juda – Joseph – Semei – Mattathias – Maath – Nagge – Esli – Naum – Amos – Mattathias – Joseph – Janna – Melchi – Levi – Matthat – Heli – Joseph – Jesus.

Which one is right? Obviously they both can't be and if one is wrong then the bible is not inerrant.

[Easyrider]

The bloodline of Christ goes straight back to King David.

Now, tell me why King David has a gentile in his lineage?

The bloodlines are fictitious and irrelevant.

No foundation

The Messiah was supposed to be from an unbroken male line from David through Solomon.

The Scriptures say God himself will born to of the line of David (Jeremiah 23:5-6). Even a number of Jewish rabbis agreed.

http://www.studytoanswer.net/judaism/jahtsidqenu.html

Therefore, by the Christian insistence that Jesus is not Josephs biological son, that
eliminates Jesus by being the Messiah.

See above. The scriptures testify against you.

[Openmind]

See above. The scriptures testify against you.

Since when are the scriptures undoubtedly correct?

[Goat]

The bloodline of Christ goes straight back to King David.

Now, tell me why King David has a gentile in his lineage?

The bloodlines are fictitious and irrelevant.

No foundation

The Messiah was supposed to be from an unbroken male line from David through Solomon.

The Scriptures say God himself will born to of the line of David (Jeremiah 23:5-6). Even a number of Jewish rabbis agreed.

http://www.studytoanswer.net/judaism/jahtsidqenu.html

Therefore, by the Christian insistence that Jesus is not Josephs biological son, that
eliminates Jesus by being the Messiah.

See above. The scriptures testify against you.

No, your source lies. They mine quote, make forgerises, and lie.

You will not find a Jewish source that makes those claims

[Easyrider]

The bloodline of Christ goes straight back to King David.

Now, tell me why King David has a gentile in his lineage?

The bloodlines are fictitious and irrelevant.

No foundation

The Messiah was supposed to be from an unbroken male line from David through Solomon.

The Scriptures say God himself will born to of the line of David (Jeremiah 23:5-6). Even a number of Jewish rabbis agreed.

http://www.studytoanswer.net/judaism/jahtsidqenu.html

Therefore, by the Christian insistence that Jesus is not Josephs biological son, that
eliminates Jesus by being the Messiah.

See above. The scriptures testify against you.

No, your source lies. They mine quote, make forgerises, and lie.

Bull. Prove it.

[Goat]

The bloodline of Christ goes straight back to King David.

Now, tell me why King David has a gentile in his lineage?

The bloodlines are fictitious and irrelevant.

No foundation

The Messiah was supposed to be from an unbroken male line from David through Solomon.

The Scriptures say God himself will born to of the line of David (Jeremiah 23:5-6). Even a number of Jewish rabbis agreed.

http://www.studytoanswer.net/judaism/jahtsidqenu.html

Therefore, by the Christian insistence that Jesus is not Josephs biological son, that
eliminates Jesus by being the Messiah.

See above. The scriptures testify against you.

No, your source lies. They mine quote, make forgerises, and lie.

Bull. Prove it.

It's simple

No where in those quotations does it say that the Messiah was going to be God, but merely the 'branch of david'.

To be a branch of David , you have to have direct, unbroken male line from David through Solomon. Therefore it is you PERSONAL misinterpretation that the Jewish rabbis say that the Messiah was going to be God.

If you disagree, show the Rabbi, and the direct quote that you think a rabbi says the 'King Messiah' (boy , talk about redundant , Messiah is 'the annointed one' or King).. is going to be God.

[Easyrider]

The bloodline of Christ goes straight back to King David.

Now, tell me why King David has a gentile in his lineage?

The bloodlines are fictitious and irrelevant.

No foundation

The Messiah was supposed to be from an unbroken male line from David through Solomon.

The Scriptures say God himself will born to of the line of David (Jeremiah 23:5-6). Even a number of Jewish rabbis agreed.

http://www.studytoanswer.net/judaism/jahtsidqenu.html

Therefore, by the Christian insistence that Jesus is not Josephs biological son, that
eliminates Jesus by being the Messiah.

See above. The scriptures testify against you.

No, your source lies. They mine quote, make forgerises, and lie.

Bull. Prove it.

It's simple

No where in those quotations does it say that the Messiah was going to be God, but merely the 'branch of david'.

It says that this is the name he will be called by: THE LORD (JEHOVAH) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

And if that's not enough, Isaiah 9 says God will be born as a child.

Now, show me evidence the rabbinic quotes are lies, forgeries, etc.?

[Goat]

The bloodline of Christ goes straight back to King David.

Now, tell me why King David has a gentile in his lineage?

The bloodlines are fictitious and irrelevant.

No foundation

The Messiah was supposed to be from an unbroken male line from David through Solomon.

The Scriptures say God himself will born to of the line of David (Jeremiah 23:5-6). Even a number of Jewish rabbis agreed.

http://www.studytoanswer.net/judaism/jahtsidqenu.html

Therefore, by the Christian insistence that Jesus is not Josephs biological son, that
eliminates Jesus by being the Messiah.

See above. The scriptures testify against you.

No, your source lies. They mine quote, make forgerises, and lie.

Bull. Prove it.

It's simple

No where in those quotations does it say that the Messiah was going to be God, but merely the 'branch of david'.

It says that this is the name he will be called by: THE LORD (JEHOVAH) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

And if that's not enough, Isaiah 9 says God will be born as a child.

Now, show me evidence the rabbinic quotes are lies, forgeries, etc.?

Again, you are full of misinformation. It has been pointed out to you that Jewish biblical names are often traits attributed to god. Isaiah means 'God is our salvation'. does that man Isaiah is God too?

As was pointed out many multiple times to you (and ignored), Isaiah 9:6 is a listing of the royal names of Hezekiah, the son of King Ahaz. Some rabbis considered that Hezekiah was actually the promised King.

[Easyrider]

Again, you are full of misinformation. It has been pointed out to you that Jewish biblical names are often traits attributed to god. Isaiah means 'God is our salvation'. does that man Isaiah is God too?

No, because it speaks of God, not Isaiah.

As was pointed out many multiple times to you (and ignored), Isaiah 9:6 is a listing of the royal names of Hezekiah, the son of King Ahaz. Some rabbis considered that Hezekiah was actually the promised King.

That's foolish. Hezekiah was never a mighty God, etc. You have to get a very large and magical shoehorn to try to make those fit.

And it still doesn't explain why ancient Jewish rabbis say Jeremiah 23:5-6 speaks of the Messiah and Jehovah (Yahweh), as shown in the link I previously provided.

[Goat]

Again, you are full of misinformation. It has been pointed out to you that Jewish biblical names are often traits attributed to god. Isaiah means 'God is our salvation'. does that man Isaiah is God too?

No, because it speaks of God, not Isaiah.

As was pointed out many multiple times to you (and ignored), Isaiah 9:6 is a listing of the royal names of Hezekiah, the son of King Ahaz. Some rabbis considered that Hezekiah was actually the promised King.

That's foolish. Hezekiah was never a mighty God, etc. You have to get a very large and magical shoehorn to try to make those fit.

And it still doesn't explain why ancient Jewish rabbis say Jeremiah 23:5-6 speaks of the Messiah and Jehovah (Yahweh), as shown in the link I previously provided.

No, he was not a 'mighty god', but as was explained to you a dozen times at least (and the point I made perviously you are ignoring), Jewish names often are attributes of God, and 'Mighty God' is one of Hezekiah's royal names. (more accurately , god is our might). Isaiah means 'God is our salvation'.. does that mean that Isaiah is god and brings salvation?? NO, it doesn't.

[Easyrider]

Again, you are full of misinformation. It has been pointed out to you that Jewish biblical names are often traits attributed to god. Isaiah means 'God is our salvation'. does that man Isaiah is God too?

No, because it speaks of God, not Isaiah.

As was pointed out many multiple times to you (and ignored), Isaiah 9:6 is a listing of the royal names of Hezekiah, the son of King Ahaz. Some rabbis considered that Hezekiah was actually the promised King.

That's foolish. Hezekiah was never a mighty God, etc. You have to get a very large and magical shoehorn to try to make those fit.

And it still doesn't explain why ancient Jewish rabbis say Jeremiah 23:5-6 speaks of the Messiah and Jehovah (Yahweh), as shown in the link I previously provided.

No, he was not a 'mighty god', but as was explained to you a dozen times at least (and the point I made perviously you are ignoring), Jewish names often are attributes of God, and 'Mighty God' is one of Hezekiah's royal names. (more accurately , god is our might). Isaiah means 'God is our salvation'.. does that mean that Isaiah is god and brings salvation?? NO, it doesn't.

"...we should note that none of these Israelites or others in the Hebrew scriptures whose names contain the word Jehovah are specifically said to be given the shem of Jehovah. They are not invested with his repute and renown the way the Branch is in Jeremiah 23:6. Further, it should be noted that when a person in the Hebrew Scriptures has a name which contains the word Jehovah, the full tetragrammaton is never included in the name. Most often, the name takes the shorted form "Jah", such as appears in names like "Isaiah" or "Zechariah", or some other shortened form of the name, such as in "Joshua" or "Jehoshaphat". Nowhere, however, are all four letters of the tetragrammaton (YHWH) found together in that form in a name given to a human being or other created creature (like they are in Jeremiah 23:5-6)."

Let us look at the passage in question,

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jeremiah 23:5-6)
From what is said in this passage, we see that this portion is specifically Messianic in content. This is seen both from the term "Branch" (tsemach - jm^x#), and from the Davidic ancestry of the King who was to be raised up.

The name "Branch" is almost universally accepted as Messianic, both by Jews and Christians alike. This term is a metaphor, literally meaning "shoot" or "sprout", and signifies the new life that Messiah was to bring to the Davidic monarchy, which was presumed dead. Further, the implications of the name were that Messiah would bring new life to all mankind, not just to His people Israel. This description as "Branch" appears several times in the Hebrew scriptures. It appears in Isaiah 4:2, where the Messiah's presence in the coming Kingdom is described as "beautiful" and "glorious". In Isaiah 11:1, the Branch is said to come from the "stem of Jesse", and is filled with the Spirit of God. In Jeremiah 33:15, the Branch again is said to come from the royal line of David. Yet, this same Branch from the royal line is termed God's servant in Zechariah 3:8, and is described as a man who will carry out God's work in Zechariah 6:12.

The rabbis recognised that Branch was a name for the Messiah. R. Y'hoshu'a notes this as a name for Messiah from Zechariah 6:121. Rav Huna also refers to this as a Messianic name2, with Buber concurring in his commentary notes on that statement3.

Likewise, the instances in Jewish rabbinical literature in which the Messiah is explicitly understood to be descended from David are too numerous to list more than a sampling here. Moses Maimonides pointed to the statements of Numbers 24:17 when he wrote,


"And there he says: 'I see him but not now', this refers to David; 'I behold him but not nigh', this refers to King Messiah; 'A star shall step forth out of Jacob', this refers to David; 'and a sceptre shall rise out of Israel', this refers to King Messiah."4
Rav Y'huda taught that the Messiah would be "another David", and that the Messiah and the first David would rule as King and viceroy, respectively5. The Aramaic Targum of Jonathan b. Uzziel likewise interprets Jeremiah 23:5 specifically in the sense of the Messiah's descent from David, even translating "branch" as "Messiah"6. Levey notes that in his Targum, Jonathan expands the name "LORD our righteousness" to read "may vindication be accomplished for us by the Lord in His day", a paraphrasical explanation of "YHWH Tsidkenu" which the commentator felt impelled to explain because of the Messianic idea contained in the verse7. Thus, the interpretation of Jeremiah 23:5-6 as Messianic would seem to rest on a solid Biblical foundation, and is also supported by the understanding of Jewish traditional theology.

Most interesting to our point here is that many of the rabbis recognised that the Messiah would be God. R. Abba bar Kahana explicitly stated that the Messiah's name would be "LORD (Adonai)", and quotes Jeremiah 23:6 as evidence8. Smith remarks that the Jewish teachers frequently interpreted this name in Jeremiah 23:6 as a personal name of the Messiah (rather than as a title for Israel or Jerusalem) in the Targumim, Midrashim, and Talmud9. In the Peshikta Rabbah, we find the statement,


"You find that at the beginning of the creation of the world King Messiah was born [and] that he emerged in the thought [of God] even before the world was created..."10
The sentiment that the Messiah, or His name, was pre-existent as a thought or word of God is found widely across the rabbinical literature. In many cases, the statements imply a pre-existence of the Messiah, which, if one understands the Hebrew scriptures correctly, therefore implies the deity of the Messiah, as the Tanakh is quite explicit in stating that before God created the world, nothing else existed with Him. The Genesis Rabbah explains the Messiah as being one of six things preceding the creation of the world, with the Messiah being cast as one of these which arose in the thought of God11. In this same work, R. Shim'on ben Laqish explicitly states that the "spirit of God" mentioned in Genesis 1:2 as hovering over the face of the waters is the spirit of King Messiah, and appeals to Isaiah 11:2 ("And the spirit of the Lord will rest upon him") for support12. The Babylonian Talmud likewise records that it was taught that the name of the Messiah was one of seven things created before the world, and that his name would endure forever, relying upon Psalm 72:17 for support13. The First Book of Enoch reiterates that the Messiah (there called the "Son of Man") was hidden in God from the beginning, before the creation, and even that the kings and rulers of the earth worship the Son of Man, setting their hopes in him and petitioning for mercy at his hands14, something directed appropriately only to God. Perhaps most explicitly of all is the statement found in R. Simeon b. Yochai's comments on the Zohar,

"There is a perfect Man, who is an Angel. This Angel is Metatron, the Keeper of Israel; He is a man in the image of the Holy One, blessed be He, who is an Emanation from Him; yea, He is Jehovah; of Him cannot be said, He is created, formed or made; but He is the Emanation from God. This agrees exactly with what is written, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Of jmx dwd, David's Branch, that though He shall be a perfect man, yet He is ‘The Lord our Righteousness.’"15

http://www.studytoanswer.net/judaism/jahtsidqenu.html