Jehovah's Witnesses and the Trinity Part 1

[SiNcE_1985]

.

No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

[Capbook]

For those following along, you'll have noticed we've already covered Hebrews chapters 1, 2, 3, and 5, and now we're only a few verses into Romans 1—and Capbook has already bowed out!

All over a simple question: "When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?"

The reality is, the moment someone acknowledges the apostles’ clear understanding of the Lord’s true nature, the concept of the Trinity collapse's.

Plain and simple.

F2F

I believe your question is irrelevant to the point that my argument is to prove by Bible text that Jesus is God.(John 1:18) To the Trinity, the Father as God, the Son as God, there's no reason that the Holy Spirit cannot be God by inclusion in Mat 28:19. If God is spirit and accepted as person, why the the Holy Spirit cannot be? We know the acceptable definition of person which we all have are, thought, emotion and will. And the Spirit have it also.

Crackup - "my question is irrelevant", more like the answer is too hard for you to accept!

The truth of Hebrews 1,2,3 & 5 also Romans 1:1-3 states Christ had your nature, and it was only when God raised him and made him immortal that he "became" the Son of God with Power.

The discussion ceases until you are able to acknowledge the Apostles teaching.

F2F

Of course, nothing in our responses that I deny Jesus as man.
As I've told you before;
1. Jesus as man - even before the existence of the JWs church many & us hold that belief that Jesus is man.
2. One God - even before the existence of JWs church many & us hold that belief of monotheism.
3. What you have to prove here is where is the Bible verse that says "Jesus is not God". Focus here and I'll wait.
Don't reply if you don't have please.

[face2face]

For those following along, you'll have noticed we've already covered Hebrews chapters 1, 2, 3, and 5, and now we're only a few verses into Romans 1—and Capbook has already bowed out!

All over a simple question: "When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?"

The reality is, the moment someone acknowledges the apostles’ clear understanding of the Lord’s true nature, the concept of the Trinity collapse's.

Plain and simple.

F2F

I believe your question is irrelevant to the point that my argument is to prove by Bible text that Jesus is God.(John 1:18) To the Trinity, the Father as God, the Son as God, there's no reason that the Holy Spirit cannot be God by inclusion in Mat 28:19. If God is spirit and accepted as person, why the the Holy Spirit cannot be? We know the acceptable definition of person which we all have are, thought, emotion and will. And the Spirit have it also.

Crackup - "my question is irrelevant", more like the answer is too hard for you to accept!

The truth of Hebrews 1,2,3 & 5 also Romans 1:1-3 states Christ had your nature, and it was only when God raised him and made him immortal that he "became" the Son of God with Power.

The discussion ceases until you are able to acknowledge the Apostles teaching.

F2F

Of course, nothing in our responses that I deny Jesus as man.
As I've told you before;
1. Jesus as man - even before the existence of the JWs church many & us hold that belief that Jesus is man.
2. One God - even before the existence of JWs church many & us hold that belief of monotheism.
3. What you have to prove here is where is the Bible verse that says "Jesus is not God". Focus here and I'll wait.
Don't reply if you don't have please.

Let me make it clear once more.

This is the Gospel as preached by the Apostles, and you’ll quickly notice how different it is from the creeds you hold today:

“Set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by His resurrection from the dead—Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 1:1–4)

Now, here are some key distinctions:

Paul was set apart for the Gospel of God—Yahweh, the one all-powerful, sovereign God.

This Gospel centers on God’s Son, a physical descendant of David, born into the fallen line of Adam, fully sharing our nature. (Paul refers to him as the second Adam in 1 Corinthians 15:45.)

Jesus, through a life of tested obedience, endured death. God then raised him from the dead and, by the power of the Holy Spirit, declared him to be the Son of God in power.

This is where true understanding begins....by recognizing this Gospel and letting go of the inherited errors of tradition.

If you can't speak according to this Word there is no light in you!

F2F

[Capbook]

For those following along, you'll have noticed we've already covered Hebrews chapters 1, 2, 3, and 5, and now we're only a few verses into Romans 1—and Capbook has already bowed out!

All over a simple question: "When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?"

The reality is, the moment someone acknowledges the apostles’ clear understanding of the Lord’s true nature, the concept of the Trinity collapse's.

Plain and simple.

F2F

I believe your question is irrelevant to the point that my argument is to prove by Bible text that Jesus is God.(John 1:18) To the Trinity, the Father as God, the Son as God, there's no reason that the Holy Spirit cannot be God by inclusion in Mat 28:19. If God is spirit and accepted as person, why the the Holy Spirit cannot be? We know the acceptable definition of person which we all have are, thought, emotion and will. And the Spirit have it also.

Crackup - "my question is irrelevant", more like the answer is too hard for you to accept!

The truth of Hebrews 1,2,3 & 5 also Romans 1:1-3 states Christ had your nature, and it was only when God raised him and made him immortal that he "became" the Son of God with Power.

The discussion ceases until you are able to acknowledge the Apostles teaching.

F2F

Of course, nothing in our responses that I deny Jesus as man.
As I've told you before;
1. Jesus as man - even before the existence of the JWs church many & us hold that belief that Jesus is man.
2. One God - even before the existence of JWs church many & us hold that belief of monotheism.
3. What you have to prove here is where is the Bible verse that says "Jesus is not God". Focus here and I'll wait.
Don't reply if you don't have please.

Let me make it clear once more.

This is the Gospel as preached by the Apostles, and you’ll quickly notice how different it is from the creeds you hold today:

“Set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by His resurrection from the dead—Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 1:1–4)

Now, here are some key distinctions:

Paul was set apart for the Gospel of God—Yahweh, the one all-powerful, sovereign God.

This Gospel centers on God’s Son, a physical descendant of David, born into the fallen line of Adam, fully sharing our nature. (Paul refers to him as the second Adam in 1 Corinthians 15:45.)

Jesus, through a life of tested obedience, endured death. God then raised him from the dead and, by the power of the Holy Spirit, declared him to be the Son of God in power.

This is where true understanding begins....by recognizing this Gospel and letting go of the inherited errors of tradition.

If you can't speak according to this Word there is no light in you!

F2F

You didn't provide what I requested. But anyway, yes, that is with regards to Jesus human nature. Both the natures of our Savior is mentioned, but the human is mentioned first. And when powerfully declared to be the the Son of God according to the Spirit of holiness, that is according to Jesus divine nature. And by His resurrection from the dead, that is of Jesus life, death and resurrection are the fountain and object of our faith, and preached by the apostles the good news (Gospel) and the hope to those who believed.

[face2face]

I believe your question is irrelevant to the point that my argument is to prove by Bible text that Jesus is God.(John 1:18) To the Trinity, the Father as God, the Son as God, there's no reason that the Holy Spirit cannot be God by inclusion in Mat 28:19. If God is spirit and accepted as person, why the the Holy Spirit cannot be? We know the acceptable definition of person which we all have are, thought, emotion and will. And the Spirit have it also.

Crackup - "my question is irrelevant", more like the answer is too hard for you to accept!

The truth of Hebrews 1,2,3 & 5 also Romans 1:1-3 states Christ had your nature, and it was only when God raised him and made him immortal that he "became" the Son of God with Power.

The discussion ceases until you are able to acknowledge the Apostles teaching.

F2F

Of course, nothing in our responses that I deny Jesus as man.
As I've told you before;
1. Jesus as man - even before the existence of the JWs church many & us hold that belief that Jesus is man.
2. One God - even before the existence of JWs church many & us hold that belief of monotheism.
3. What you have to prove here is where is the Bible verse that says "Jesus is not God". Focus here and I'll wait.
Don't reply if you don't have please.

Let me make it clear once more.

This is the Gospel as preached by the Apostles, and you’ll quickly notice how different it is from the creeds you hold today:

“Set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by His resurrection from the dead—Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 1:1–4)

Now, here are some key distinctions:

Paul was set apart for the Gospel of God—Yahweh, the one all-powerful, sovereign God.

This Gospel centers on God’s Son, a physical descendant of David, born into the fallen line of Adam, fully sharing our nature. (Paul refers to him as the second Adam in 1 Corinthians 15:45.)

Jesus, through a life of tested obedience, endured death. God then raised him from the dead and, by the power of the Holy Spirit, declared him to be the Son of God in power.

This is where true understanding begins....by recognizing this Gospel and letting go of the inherited errors of tradition.

If you can't speak according to this Word there is no light in you!

F2F

You didn't provide what I requested. But anyway, yes, that is with regards to Jesus human nature. Both the natures of our Savior is mentioned, but the human is mentioned first. And when powerfully declared to be the the Son of God according to the Spirit of holiness, that is according to Jesus divine nature. And by His resurrection from the dead, that is of Jesus life, death and resurrection are the fountain and object of our faith, and preached by the apostles the good news (Gospel) and the hope to those who believed.

To begin with you don't believe Jesus is a man.
You don't worship the same God Abraham worshipped and he was the friend of God!
You can't come to an understanding of God while you believe in Hypostasis and the Triune Creed.

he (Jesus) entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Hebrews 9:12

Why did Jesus require redemption?

Provide a verse in your answer....

F2F

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #148]


They do not know if its YHWH or YHVH.-)-Jehovah is the true living God.

[face2face]

[Replying to Capbook in post #148]


They do not know if its YHWH or YHVH.-)-Jehovah is the true living God.

Most JW's I know and regularly communicate with using Yahweh as the preferred Name.

F2F

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #148]


They do not know if its YHWH or YHVH.-)-Jehovah is the true living God.

The two represent the same four-letter Hebrew personal name of God.
See the earliest verse that mentioned the personal name of the Father, is it the one your church used?
Sorry servant1, it seems you've been corrected by your brother in faith.

Gen 2:4 These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that יהוה Elohim made earth and heavens.

[Capbook]

To begin with you don't believe Jesus is a man.

Strawman argument.

You don't worship the same God Abraham worshipped and he was the friend of God!

I believe you know what it means by "Abrahamic Faith". That's what we are. We worship the true God, that the Father said who had that eternal life. (1John 5:11,20)

You can't come to an understanding of God while you believe in Hypostasis and the Triune Creed.

You cannot even prove that "Jesus is not God".

he (Jesus) entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Hebrews 9:12

Why did Jesus require redemption?

Provide a verse in your answer.... F2F

Our redemption, that we will be reconciled to the Father, and hope for eternal life in faith.
(John 3:16, 1Pet 3:18, Romans 5:18)

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Rom 5:18 So then, as through one offense the result was condemnation to all mankind, so also through one act of righteousness the result was justification of life to all mankind.

[face2face]

To begin with you don't believe Jesus is a man.

Strawman argument.

You don't worship the same God Abraham worshipped and he was the friend of God!

I believe you know what it means by "Abrahamic Faith". That's what we are. We worship the true God, that the Father said who had that eternal life. (1John 5:11,20)

You can't come to an understanding of God while you believe in Hypostasis and the Triune Creed.

You cannot even prove that "Jesus is not God".

he (Jesus) entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Hebrews 9:12

Why did Jesus require redemption?

Provide a verse in your answer.... F2F

Our redemption, that we will be reconciled to the Father, and hope for eternal life in faith.
(John 3:16, 1Pet 3:18, Romans 5:18)

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Rom 5:18 So then, as through one offense the result was condemnation to all mankind, so also through one act of righteousness the result was justification of life to all mankind.

You didn’t actually answer the question.

What, exactly, did Jesus need to be redeemed from?

F2F

[Capbook]

To begin with you don't believe Jesus is a man.

Strawman argument.

You don't worship the same God Abraham worshipped and he was the friend of God!

I believe you know what it means by "Abrahamic Faith". That's what we are. We worship the true God, that the Father said who had that eternal life. (1John 5:11,20)

You can't come to an understanding of God while you believe in Hypostasis and the Triune Creed.

You cannot even prove that "Jesus is not God".

he (Jesus) entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Hebrews 9:12

Why did Jesus require redemption?

Provide a verse in your answer.... F2F

Our redemption, that we will be reconciled to the Father, and hope for eternal life in faith.
(John 3:16, 1Pet 3:18, Romans 5:18)

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Rom 5:18 So then, as through one offense the result was condemnation to all mankind, so also through one act of righteousness the result was justification of life to all mankind.

You didn’t actually answer the question.

What, exactly, did Jesus need to be redeemed from?

F2F

Do you think a God need to be redeemed? Show me a Bible verse that says that.
It is us that need to be redeemed through Jesus blood shed on Calvary, to forgive our trespasses and hope of eternal life in faith.

Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our wrongdoings, according to the riches of His grace.