Jehovah's Witnesses and the Trinity Part 1

[SiNcE_1985]

.

No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

[Capbook]

Lets continue with Hebrews seeing that is what you began with in your adding to the Word of God.

I said we can read two word "God" in Heb 1:9, I didn't add, like an "a" to John 1:1.

Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, 2 who was faithful to him who appointed him, just as Moses also was faithful in all God’s house. 3 For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses—as much more glory as the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself. 4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.) 5 Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, 6 but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope. Hebrews 3:1-5

If the Gospel was truly established on Jesus being God would you find statements like "Jesus has been counted worthy of more Glory..."

The Gospel is the good news of Jesus' sacrifice in human form, while we have already seen that the author had proven that Jesus Christ is higher than the angels, higher than Moses, and higher than Aaron. That he is higher than the angels has been already proven in prior chapter.

I wonder if you truly understand the Glory of Yahweh the One True God and how this could never be said of Him!

In fact the Lord Jesus Christ "Glory" finishes at being the "as a Son"

After the 3rd verse of John 17, Jesus had prayed to the Father to glorify Him of the glory which Jesus had with the Father before the world existed. The more glory was referred to Moses and to angels in Hebrew chapter 1.

So lets review the list of facts:

Hebrews 1 – Presents Jesus as one who was created lower than the angels for a time, yet later crowned with glory and honor by His God.
Hebrews 2 – Reveals that Jesus shared fully in our human nature, being made like us in “every respect.”
Hebrews 3 – Describes Jesus as having greater glory than Moses, not as a servant, but as the Son of God.
Hebrews 5 – Shows us how Jesus, in reverent submission, feared God and prayed earnestly to be saved from death.

This is what I mean to you to cite the specific verses, as the word "created" I think I can check and also your other points.

So far in our discussion I am yet to see the slightest hint of duality of Natures or the Complex Dogma which is the Trinity.

Jesus duality can be proven by Jesus words being the Son of man and Son of God, which in the biggest hint you are afraid to answer. For the Trinity, first the three already in existence in the first book and first chapter of the Bible. The baptism of a believer is done in the (singular) "name" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Where definite article is placed before the three. And the benediction of apostle Paul in reference to the three. Father is God, Jesus is proven God in John 1:18, Heb 1:8-9, John 1:1, Psa 45:6-7 etc, and the Holy Spirit in Acts 5:3-4.

Now if you go over to Revelation 1:18 you are told very clearly the nature of Christ existence.

and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive—forever and ever—and I hold the keys of death and of Hades! Re 1:17–18

Again, it becomes a moot point to claim “I was dead” if Jesus is truly God—especially when, in your view, he wasn’t actually dead, and you believe you can reason that out for yourself.

Death is the complete cessation of life and existence—and to bring someone back from that state is, by definition, to raise them from the dead.

Simple Bible concepts such as this are manipulated and the power and meaning of them are removed.

So not only to you not understand who the Lord Jesus Christ is you fail to even understanding you own nature!

You now again proves Jesus human nature, He died for mankind to have hope of salvation in faith. You have confused statements because you don't know what it means of Jesus as "the Son of God".

In Psalm 78:39, the Spirit through David declares that “flesh is spirit that passes away and does not return.” The King James Version renders it as “flesh is as a wind,” but in Hebrew, the word used is ruach, which is the same word translated “spirit” in Genesis 1:2. So, if we take Scripture seriously, flesh—human nature—is spirit, but a spirit that fades away.

Peter’s reference to the "spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19). These were the people who lived before the flood flesh and blood, just like us yet Peter calls them “spirits,” because, according to Scripture, flesh is spirit.

The text was about inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by His just law to destruction. They are represented as being in prison-detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance.

Now, if all humans (and even animals) are referred to as spirit in one sense, what is the key difference between human nature and angelic nature? After all, both are called spirits in the Bible. The most striking difference is this: human nature is a kind of spirit that perishes, while angelic (or divine) nature is spirit that does not perish. One is mortal and corruptible, the other immortal and incorruptible.

God is spirit right? By your explanation can we also like the true God. You seems confused just to justify what happened to Jesus body in heaven.

There is a fundamental, though not always obvious, distinction between these two types of spirit. This difference is built into creation itself, designed by God, and it is this difference that allows one form to be transformed into the other.

To illustrate: imagine replacing steam power with divine creative power, and iron ore with the dust of the ground. Alone, neither element produces life or function. But when the creative Spirit organizes that dust into complex, living structures—what we call organisms—those structures become vehicles for a vast range of physical, mental, and spiritual expressions.

These organized forms are called “the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 16:22). When God presented these to Adam, each animal received its name—lion, elephant, horse, and so on. Each of these forms—these “spirits”—demonstrates a different kind of vitality and expression based on its design. The Creator gave each form its particular capabilities: the energy and swiftness of the horse, the strength and size of the elephant, and so on. The same divine power animates each creature, but the diversity of form leads to a diversity of outcomes. This is why Moses calls God “the Elohim of the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 27:16).

In short, the form determines the function. God formed man—spirit made from the dust of the ground—and called him flesh, meaning spirit that fades away. Without further intervention from God, this spirit is destined to perish. Yet, humanity stands out as the most advanced of all created forms—our minds are capable of a much higher level of spiritual and rational expression. The difference between instinct and reason lies in the superior design of the human brain.

One day, God’s transforming power will change perishable spirit into imperishable spirit. Those transformed will become equal to the angels, whose nature does not decay or die.

Jesus is the first to be transformed from mortal, sin flesh to divine nature. As such, he is the firstfruits of those who sleep in death, the first to rise from the dead to immortality.

Hebrews, Revelation and Psalm 78:39 all speak to the same lessons concerning the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Don't reply anymore with your nonsense but go away and learn what these things mean and repent of your error.

Mankind as spirit, I think that the true nonsense.

I think this is true: Not every discussion is worth our energy. Sometimes, no matter how clearly you express yourself, the other person isn’t listening to understand they’re just reading to react. They’re stuck in their own perspective, unwilling to consider another viewpoint, and engaging with them only drains us.
There’s a difference between a healthy discussion and a pointless debate.
This refers to the logic I've presented that was never addressed, Jesus as the "Son of God", as His Father is God, is He God or not? The honest answer of Jesus as man, being the "Son of a human Mary", why that honest, logical, and explicit answer to Jesus as being man cannot be applied to Jesus as "Son of God?"

The debate has become unproductive due to your inability to demonstrate any scriptural basis for a dual nature. If you had been able to provide clear evidence, we could have resolved this quite easily.

As it stands, man perishes—he returns to the dust and is no more, unless he has faith. Christ did not see corruption, but had he been left in the grave, he would have. How loving was His Father to raise Him before that could happen?

But you don't believe Jesus died so you must still be in your sins?

F2F

The inability is on your side, you cannot even answer the simple logic honestly, logically and explicitly why your honest and logical answer to Jesus as Son of man cannot be applied to Jesus as Son of God.
Note, even in simple logic you cannot answer, how much more the hard ones.
For a moment I'll focus on this issue, please don't reply outside of this topic.

[face2face]

Lets continue with Hebrews seeing that is what you began with in your adding to the Word of God.

I said we can read two word "God" in Heb 1:9, I didn't add, like an "a" to John 1:1.

Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, 2 who was faithful to him who appointed him, just as Moses also was faithful in all God’s house. 3 For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses—as much more glory as the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself. 4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.) 5 Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, 6 but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope. Hebrews 3:1-5

If the Gospel was truly established on Jesus being God would you find statements like "Jesus has been counted worthy of more Glory..."

The Gospel is the good news of Jesus' sacrifice in human form, while we have already seen that the author had proven that Jesus Christ is higher than the angels, higher than Moses, and higher than Aaron. That he is higher than the angels has been already proven in prior chapter.

I wonder if you truly understand the Glory of Yahweh the One True God and how this could never be said of Him!

In fact the Lord Jesus Christ "Glory" finishes at being the "as a Son"

After the 3rd verse of John 17, Jesus had prayed to the Father to glorify Him of the glory which Jesus had with the Father before the world existed. The more glory was referred to Moses and to angels in Hebrew chapter 1.

So lets review the list of facts:

Hebrews 1 – Presents Jesus as one who was created lower than the angels for a time, yet later crowned with glory and honor by His God.
Hebrews 2 – Reveals that Jesus shared fully in our human nature, being made like us in “every respect.”
Hebrews 3 – Describes Jesus as having greater glory than Moses, not as a servant, but as the Son of God.
Hebrews 5 – Shows us how Jesus, in reverent submission, feared God and prayed earnestly to be saved from death.

This is what I mean to you to cite the specific verses, as the word "created" I think I can check and also your other points.

So far in our discussion I am yet to see the slightest hint of duality of Natures or the Complex Dogma which is the Trinity.

Jesus duality can be proven by Jesus words being the Son of man and Son of God, which in the biggest hint you are afraid to answer. For the Trinity, first the three already in existence in the first book and first chapter of the Bible. The baptism of a believer is done in the (singular) "name" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Where definite article is placed before the three. And the benediction of apostle Paul in reference to the three. Father is God, Jesus is proven God in John 1:18, Heb 1:8-9, John 1:1, Psa 45:6-7 etc, and the Holy Spirit in Acts 5:3-4.

Now if you go over to Revelation 1:18 you are told very clearly the nature of Christ existence.

and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive—forever and ever—and I hold the keys of death and of Hades! Re 1:17–18

Again, it becomes a moot point to claim “I was dead” if Jesus is truly God—especially when, in your view, he wasn’t actually dead, and you believe you can reason that out for yourself.

Death is the complete cessation of life and existence—and to bring someone back from that state is, by definition, to raise them from the dead.

Simple Bible concepts such as this are manipulated and the power and meaning of them are removed.

So not only to you not understand who the Lord Jesus Christ is you fail to even understanding you own nature!

You now again proves Jesus human nature, He died for mankind to have hope of salvation in faith. You have confused statements because you don't know what it means of Jesus as "the Son of God".

In Psalm 78:39, the Spirit through David declares that “flesh is spirit that passes away and does not return.” The King James Version renders it as “flesh is as a wind,” but in Hebrew, the word used is ruach, which is the same word translated “spirit” in Genesis 1:2. So, if we take Scripture seriously, flesh—human nature—is spirit, but a spirit that fades away.

Peter’s reference to the "spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19). These were the people who lived before the flood flesh and blood, just like us yet Peter calls them “spirits,” because, according to Scripture, flesh is spirit.

The text was about inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by His just law to destruction. They are represented as being in prison-detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance.

Now, if all humans (and even animals) are referred to as spirit in one sense, what is the key difference between human nature and angelic nature? After all, both are called spirits in the Bible. The most striking difference is this: human nature is a kind of spirit that perishes, while angelic (or divine) nature is spirit that does not perish. One is mortal and corruptible, the other immortal and incorruptible.

God is spirit right? By your explanation can we also like the true God. You seems confused just to justify what happened to Jesus body in heaven.

There is a fundamental, though not always obvious, distinction between these two types of spirit. This difference is built into creation itself, designed by God, and it is this difference that allows one form to be transformed into the other.

To illustrate: imagine replacing steam power with divine creative power, and iron ore with the dust of the ground. Alone, neither element produces life or function. But when the creative Spirit organizes that dust into complex, living structures—what we call organisms—those structures become vehicles for a vast range of physical, mental, and spiritual expressions.

These organized forms are called “the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 16:22). When God presented these to Adam, each animal received its name—lion, elephant, horse, and so on. Each of these forms—these “spirits”—demonstrates a different kind of vitality and expression based on its design. The Creator gave each form its particular capabilities: the energy and swiftness of the horse, the strength and size of the elephant, and so on. The same divine power animates each creature, but the diversity of form leads to a diversity of outcomes. This is why Moses calls God “the Elohim of the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 27:16).

In short, the form determines the function. God formed man—spirit made from the dust of the ground—and called him flesh, meaning spirit that fades away. Without further intervention from God, this spirit is destined to perish. Yet, humanity stands out as the most advanced of all created forms—our minds are capable of a much higher level of spiritual and rational expression. The difference between instinct and reason lies in the superior design of the human brain.

One day, God’s transforming power will change perishable spirit into imperishable spirit. Those transformed will become equal to the angels, whose nature does not decay or die.

Jesus is the first to be transformed from mortal, sin flesh to divine nature. As such, he is the firstfruits of those who sleep in death, the first to rise from the dead to immortality.

Hebrews, Revelation and Psalm 78:39 all speak to the same lessons concerning the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Don't reply anymore with your nonsense but go away and learn what these things mean and repent of your error.

Mankind as spirit, I think that the true nonsense.

I think this is true: Not every discussion is worth our energy. Sometimes, no matter how clearly you express yourself, the other person isn’t listening to understand they’re just reading to react. They’re stuck in their own perspective, unwilling to consider another viewpoint, and engaging with them only drains us.
There’s a difference between a healthy discussion and a pointless debate.
This refers to the logic I've presented that was never addressed, Jesus as the "Son of God", as His Father is God, is He God or not? The honest answer of Jesus as man, being the "Son of a human Mary", why that honest, logical, and explicit answer to Jesus as being man cannot be applied to Jesus as "Son of God?"

The debate has become unproductive due to your inability to demonstrate any scriptural basis for a dual nature. If you had been able to provide clear evidence, we could have resolved this quite easily.

As it stands, man perishes—he returns to the dust and is no more, unless he has faith. Christ did not see corruption, but had he been left in the grave, he would have. How loving was His Father to raise Him before that could happen?

But you don't believe Jesus died so you must still be in your sins?

F2F

The inability is on your side, you cannot even answer the simple logic honestly, logically and explicitly why your honest and logical answer to Jesus as Son of man cannot be applied to Jesus as Son of God.
Note, even in simple logic you cannot answer, how much more the hard ones.
For a moment I'll focus on this issue, please don't reply outside of this topic.

Why do you assume Jesus the Son of God was born with God's nature? You have no Scripture to support!

Look at how the Apostles understood this:

concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord Ro 1:3–4.

Fact 1. Jesus descended from David according to his nature
Fact 2. Jesus became the Son of God when he was raised from the dead and given immortality

"But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual." 1 Corinthians 15:46

What you believe is they came at the same time - impossible

Immortality and mortality cannot coexist in the one body!

So lets see how teachable you are Capbook.

When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?

Answer here:____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

F2F

[Capbook]

Lets continue with Hebrews seeing that is what you began with in your adding to the Word of God.

I said we can read two word "God" in Heb 1:9, I didn't add, like an "a" to John 1:1.

Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, 2 who was faithful to him who appointed him, just as Moses also was faithful in all God’s house. 3 For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses—as much more glory as the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself. 4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.) 5 Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, 6 but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope. Hebrews 3:1-5

If the Gospel was truly established on Jesus being God would you find statements like "Jesus has been counted worthy of more Glory..."

The Gospel is the good news of Jesus' sacrifice in human form, while we have already seen that the author had proven that Jesus Christ is higher than the angels, higher than Moses, and higher than Aaron. That he is higher than the angels has been already proven in prior chapter.

I wonder if you truly understand the Glory of Yahweh the One True God and how this could never be said of Him!

In fact the Lord Jesus Christ "Glory" finishes at being the "as a Son"

After the 3rd verse of John 17, Jesus had prayed to the Father to glorify Him of the glory which Jesus had with the Father before the world existed. The more glory was referred to Moses and to angels in Hebrew chapter 1.

So lets review the list of facts:

Hebrews 1 – Presents Jesus as one who was created lower than the angels for a time, yet later crowned with glory and honor by His God.
Hebrews 2 – Reveals that Jesus shared fully in our human nature, being made like us in “every respect.”
Hebrews 3 – Describes Jesus as having greater glory than Moses, not as a servant, but as the Son of God.
Hebrews 5 – Shows us how Jesus, in reverent submission, feared God and prayed earnestly to be saved from death.

This is what I mean to you to cite the specific verses, as the word "created" I think I can check and also your other points.

So far in our discussion I am yet to see the slightest hint of duality of Natures or the Complex Dogma which is the Trinity.

Jesus duality can be proven by Jesus words being the Son of man and Son of God, which in the biggest hint you are afraid to answer. For the Trinity, first the three already in existence in the first book and first chapter of the Bible. The baptism of a believer is done in the (singular) "name" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Where definite article is placed before the three. And the benediction of apostle Paul in reference to the three. Father is God, Jesus is proven God in John 1:18, Heb 1:8-9, John 1:1, Psa 45:6-7 etc, and the Holy Spirit in Acts 5:3-4.

Now if you go over to Revelation 1:18 you are told very clearly the nature of Christ existence.

and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive—forever and ever—and I hold the keys of death and of Hades! Re 1:17–18

Again, it becomes a moot point to claim “I was dead” if Jesus is truly God—especially when, in your view, he wasn’t actually dead, and you believe you can reason that out for yourself.

Death is the complete cessation of life and existence—and to bring someone back from that state is, by definition, to raise them from the dead.

Simple Bible concepts such as this are manipulated and the power and meaning of them are removed.

So not only to you not understand who the Lord Jesus Christ is you fail to even understanding you own nature!

You now again proves Jesus human nature, He died for mankind to have hope of salvation in faith. You have confused statements because you don't know what it means of Jesus as "the Son of God".

In Psalm 78:39, the Spirit through David declares that “flesh is spirit that passes away and does not return.” The King James Version renders it as “flesh is as a wind,” but in Hebrew, the word used is ruach, which is the same word translated “spirit” in Genesis 1:2. So, if we take Scripture seriously, flesh—human nature—is spirit, but a spirit that fades away.

Peter’s reference to the "spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19). These were the people who lived before the flood flesh and blood, just like us yet Peter calls them “spirits,” because, according to Scripture, flesh is spirit.

The text was about inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by His just law to destruction. They are represented as being in prison-detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance.

Now, if all humans (and even animals) are referred to as spirit in one sense, what is the key difference between human nature and angelic nature? After all, both are called spirits in the Bible. The most striking difference is this: human nature is a kind of spirit that perishes, while angelic (or divine) nature is spirit that does not perish. One is mortal and corruptible, the other immortal and incorruptible.

God is spirit right? By your explanation can we also like the true God. You seems confused just to justify what happened to Jesus body in heaven.

There is a fundamental, though not always obvious, distinction between these two types of spirit. This difference is built into creation itself, designed by God, and it is this difference that allows one form to be transformed into the other.

To illustrate: imagine replacing steam power with divine creative power, and iron ore with the dust of the ground. Alone, neither element produces life or function. But when the creative Spirit organizes that dust into complex, living structures—what we call organisms—those structures become vehicles for a vast range of physical, mental, and spiritual expressions.

These organized forms are called “the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 16:22). When God presented these to Adam, each animal received its name—lion, elephant, horse, and so on. Each of these forms—these “spirits”—demonstrates a different kind of vitality and expression based on its design. The Creator gave each form its particular capabilities: the energy and swiftness of the horse, the strength and size of the elephant, and so on. The same divine power animates each creature, but the diversity of form leads to a diversity of outcomes. This is why Moses calls God “the Elohim of the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 27:16).

In short, the form determines the function. God formed man—spirit made from the dust of the ground—and called him flesh, meaning spirit that fades away. Without further intervention from God, this spirit is destined to perish. Yet, humanity stands out as the most advanced of all created forms—our minds are capable of a much higher level of spiritual and rational expression. The difference between instinct and reason lies in the superior design of the human brain.

One day, God’s transforming power will change perishable spirit into imperishable spirit. Those transformed will become equal to the angels, whose nature does not decay or die.

Jesus is the first to be transformed from mortal, sin flesh to divine nature. As such, he is the firstfruits of those who sleep in death, the first to rise from the dead to immortality.

Hebrews, Revelation and Psalm 78:39 all speak to the same lessons concerning the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Don't reply anymore with your nonsense but go away and learn what these things mean and repent of your error.

Mankind as spirit, I think that the true nonsense.

I think this is true: Not every discussion is worth our energy. Sometimes, no matter how clearly you express yourself, the other person isn’t listening to understand they’re just reading to react. They’re stuck in their own perspective, unwilling to consider another viewpoint, and engaging with them only drains us.
There’s a difference between a healthy discussion and a pointless debate.
This refers to the logic I've presented that was never addressed, Jesus as the "Son of God", as His Father is God, is He God or not? The honest answer of Jesus as man, being the "Son of a human Mary", why that honest, logical, and explicit answer to Jesus as being man cannot be applied to Jesus as "Son of God?"

The debate has become unproductive due to your inability to demonstrate any scriptural basis for a dual nature. If you had been able to provide clear evidence, we could have resolved this quite easily.

As it stands, man perishes—he returns to the dust and is no more, unless he has faith. Christ did not see corruption, but had he been left in the grave, he would have. How loving was His Father to raise Him before that could happen?

But you don't believe Jesus died so you must still be in your sins?

F2F

The inability is on your side, you cannot even answer the simple logic honestly, logically and explicitly why your honest and logical answer to Jesus as Son of man cannot be applied to Jesus as Son of God.
Note, even in simple logic you cannot answer, how much more the hard ones.
For a moment I'll focus on this issue, please don't reply outside of this topic.

Why do you assume Jesus the Son of God was born with God's nature? You have no Scripture to support!

Look at how the Apostles understood this:

concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord Ro 1:3–4.

Fact 1. Jesus descended from David according to his nature
Fact 2. Jesus became the Son of God when he was raised from the dead and given immortality

"But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual." 1 Corinthians 15:46

What you believe is they came at the same time - impossible

Immortality and mortality cannot coexist in the one body!

So lets see how teachable you are Capbook.

When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?

Answer here:____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

F2F

You again prove Jesus in human nature, your explanation lack sufficiency and substance, I believe cannot stand to the explicit Bible text that speaks of Jesus Divine nature, supported by papyrus P66 and papyrus P75, recently found older manuscripts.

(NAS95+) Jhn 1:18  R1 No G3762  one G3762  has seen G3708  God G2316  at any G4455  time G4455 ;  R2 the only G3439  begotten G3439  God G2316  who is  R3 in the bosom G2859  of the Father G3962 ,  R4 He has explained G1834  Him.

[face2face]

I said we can read two word "God" in Heb 1:9, I didn't add, like an "a" to John 1:1.

The Gospel is the good news of Jesus' sacrifice in human form, while we have already seen that the author had proven that Jesus Christ is higher than the angels, higher than Moses, and higher than Aaron. That he is higher than the angels has been already proven in prior chapter.

After the 3rd verse of John 17, Jesus had prayed to the Father to glorify Him of the glory which Jesus had with the Father before the world existed. The more glory was referred to Moses and to angels in Hebrew chapter 1.

This is what I mean to you to cite the specific verses, as the word "created" I think I can check and also your other points.

Jesus duality can be proven by Jesus words being the Son of man and Son of God, which in the biggest hint you are afraid to answer. For the Trinity, first the three already in existence in the first book and first chapter of the Bible. The baptism of a believer is done in the (singular) "name" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Where definite article is placed before the three. And the benediction of apostle Paul in reference to the three. Father is God, Jesus is proven God in John 1:18, Heb 1:8-9, John 1:1, Psa 45:6-7 etc, and the Holy Spirit in Acts 5:3-4.

You now again proves Jesus human nature, He died for mankind to have hope of salvation in faith. You have confused statements because you don't know what it means of Jesus as "the Son of God".


The text was about inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by His just law to destruction. They are represented as being in prison-detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance.

God is spirit right? By your explanation can we also like the true God. You seems confused just to justify what happened to Jesus body in heaven.

Mankind as spirit, I think that the true nonsense.

I think this is true: Not every discussion is worth our energy. Sometimes, no matter how clearly you express yourself, the other person isn’t listening to understand they’re just reading to react. They’re stuck in their own perspective, unwilling to consider another viewpoint, and engaging with them only drains us.
There’s a difference between a healthy discussion and a pointless debate.
This refers to the logic I've presented that was never addressed, Jesus as the "Son of God", as His Father is God, is He God or not? The honest answer of Jesus as man, being the "Son of a human Mary", why that honest, logical, and explicit answer to Jesus as being man cannot be applied to Jesus as "Son of God?"

The debate has become unproductive due to your inability to demonstrate any scriptural basis for a dual nature. If you had been able to provide clear evidence, we could have resolved this quite easily.

As it stands, man perishes—he returns to the dust and is no more, unless he has faith. Christ did not see corruption, but had he been left in the grave, he would have. How loving was His Father to raise Him before that could happen?

But you don't believe Jesus died so you must still be in your sins?

F2F

The inability is on your side, you cannot even answer the simple logic honestly, logically and explicitly why your honest and logical answer to Jesus as Son of man cannot be applied to Jesus as Son of God.
Note, even in simple logic you cannot answer, how much more the hard ones.
For a moment I'll focus on this issue, please don't reply outside of this topic.

Why do you assume Jesus the Son of God was born with God's nature? You have no Scripture to support!

Look at how the Apostles understood this:

concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord Ro 1:3–4.

Fact 1. Jesus descended from David according to his nature
Fact 2. Jesus became the Son of God when he was raised from the dead and given immortality

"But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual." 1 Corinthians 15:46

What you believe is they came at the same time - impossible

Immortality and mortality cannot coexist in the one body!

So lets see how teachable you are Capbook.

When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?

Answer here:____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

F2F

You again prove Jesus in human nature, your explanation lack sufficiency and substance, I believe cannot stand to the explicit Bible text that speaks of Jesus Divine nature, supported by papyrus P66 and papyrus P75, recently found older manuscripts.

(NAS95+) Jhn 1:18  R1 No G3762  one G3762  has seen G3708  God G2316  at any G4455  time G4455 ;  R2 the only G3439  begotten G3439  God G2316  who is  R3 in the bosom G2859  of the Father G3962 ,  R4 He has explained G1834  Him.

When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?
What had to happen for him to be declared the Son of God?

The verse stands against you this is why you are struggling.

F2F

[face2face]

For those following along, you'll have noticed we've already covered Hebrews chapters 1, 2, 3, and 5, and now we're only a few verses into Romans 1—and Capbook has already bowed out!

All over a simple question: "When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?"

The reality is, the moment someone acknowledges the apostles’ clear understanding of the Lord’s true nature, the concept of the Trinity collapse's.

Plain and simple.

F2F

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #139]


Names differ in languages. Yeshua=Jesus--you accept that name.

[Capbook]

For those following along, you'll have noticed we've already covered Hebrews chapters 1, 2, 3, and 5, and now we're only a few verses into Romans 1—and Capbook has already bowed out!

All over a simple question: "When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?"

The reality is, the moment someone acknowledges the apostles’ clear understanding of the Lord’s true nature, the concept of the Trinity collapse's.

Plain and simple.

F2F

I believe your question is irrelevant to the point that my argument is to prove by Bible text that Jesus is God.(John 1:18) To the Trinity, the Father as God, the Son as God, there's no reason that the Holy Spirit cannot be God by inclusion in Mat 28:19. If God is spirit and accepted as person, why the the Holy Spirit cannot be? We know the acceptable definition of person which we all have are, thought, emotion and will. And the Spirit have it also.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #139]


Names differ in languages. Yeshua=Jesus--you accept that name.

Do that means that the more that 7,000 mentioned in the Bible is not the one you referred to?
Yeshua=Iesous=Jesus, that is transliteration.
While the Latinized used by your church is not a transliteration, it is alteration.

"Jehovah" is generally considered an alteration rather than a pure transliteration of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (YHWH). https://www.google.com/search?q=is+jeho ... s-wiz-serp

Yes, Yeshua, Iesous, and Jesus are all related through transliteration, not translation.https://www.google.com/search?q=is+yesh ... e&ie=UTF-8

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #139]


Names differ in languages. Yeshua=Jesus--you accept that name.

Do that means that the more that 7,000 mentioned in the Bible is not the one you referred to?
Yeshua=Iesous=Jesus, that is transliteration. Yes, I accept the name.
While the Latinized used by your church is not a transliteration, it is alteration.

"Jehovah" is generally considered an alteration rather than a pure transliteration of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (YHWH). https://www.google.com/search?q=is+jeho ... s-wiz-serp

Yes, Yeshua, Iesous, and Jesus are all related through transliteration, not translation.https://www.google.com/search?q=is+yesh ... e&ie=UTF-8

[face2face]

For those following along, you'll have noticed we've already covered Hebrews chapters 1, 2, 3, and 5, and now we're only a few verses into Romans 1—and Capbook has already bowed out!

All over a simple question: "When was Jesus declared to be the Son of God?"

The reality is, the moment someone acknowledges the apostles’ clear understanding of the Lord’s true nature, the concept of the Trinity collapse's.

Plain and simple.

F2F

I believe your question is irrelevant to the point that my argument is to prove by Bible text that Jesus is God.(John 1:18) To the Trinity, the Father as God, the Son as God, there's no reason that the Holy Spirit cannot be God by inclusion in Mat 28:19. If God is spirit and accepted as person, why the the Holy Spirit cannot be? We know the acceptable definition of person which we all have are, thought, emotion and will. And the Spirit have it also.

Crackup - "my question is irrelevant", more like the answer is too hard for you to accept!

The truth of Hebrews 1,2,3 & 5 also Romans 1:1-3 states Christ had your nature, and it was only when God raised him and made him immortal that he "became" the Son of God with Power.

The discussion ceases until you are able to acknowledge the Apostles teaching.

F2F