Jehovah's Witnesses and the Trinity Part 1

[SiNcE_1985]

.

No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

[Capbook]

You're skimming the surface like a stone skipping across a lake—there’s no real depth in your handling of this subject.

Another opinion, real depth are evidences, Bible verses and not mere assumptions.

Hebrews 2 speaks plainly and powerfully about the true nature of Christ. Paul states not once, but multiple times, that the Lord fully shared our nature, 100%, and that he died in that nature, exactly as God intended from the beginning.

So, I understand now why you'd want to steer away from Hebrews 1 and 2—it makes perfect sense!

No, I did not, because it seems the Father's words had no value to you. I support my point with Col 2:9, and I think you want to stay away from the definition of the nature of Jesus being God with lexicon evidence, and I know this will be met by another unsupported denial.

What about Hebrews 5:7?

"In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence."

Do you actually believe this?

Yes, again, you have proven Jesus human nature. I noticed I keep on replying to your escaped strategy to my unanswered questions. Hope this one will not be ignored, I believe you are a JW, and I'm confused of what really is your church belief about Jesus, is He "man or a god?"

Because if you did, you’d have to reckon with the following:

Can God fear God?

Can God be subject to death?

Can God pray to Himself for deliverance from death—knowing He cannot die?

Can you provide a verse that Jesus fear the Father? Jesus in the likeness of man was always obedient to the Father. But I don't think the word "fear" is there. God Jesus in flesh had suffered death to give mankind a hope of eternal life in faith. And for us to emulate Jesus in sinful flesh but chose not to sin.

What you're defending isn't biblical reality; it's a façade—a staged performance, like a puppet show where God is both the puppet and the puppeteer.

That’s the Trinity.

Is Matt 28:19 not Biblical?

[face2face]

What about Hebrews 5:7?

"In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence."

Do you actually believe this Capbook?

Because if you did, you’d have to reckon with the following:

Can God fear God?

Can God be subject to death?

Can God pray to Himself for deliverance from death—knowing He cannot die?

You’ll notice I’ve remained in the book of Hebrews to show you the true nature of Christ—how he was exalted to a position above the angels, something that God Himself cannot experience.

[Capbook]

What about Hebrews 5:7?
"In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence."

Do you actually believe this Capbook?

Yes, Jesus as man and in the days of His flesh, the time of His incarnation during which He took all the infirmities of human nature upon Him, and was afflicted in His body and human soul just as other men are. The Redeemer of the world appears here as simply man, but He is the representative of the whole human race. He must make expiation for sin by suffering, and He can suffer only as man. Suffering, was as necessary as death, He took the penalty of our sins by His blood shed on Calvary. As man Jesus had even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me but your will be done." A fear of separation from the Father's protection and the consequences of bearing our sins.

Because if you did, you’d have to reckon with the following:

Can God fear God?

Can God be subject to death?

Can God pray to Himself for deliverance from death—knowing He cannot die?

Already answered above, Jesus even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me" a fear to the consequences of bearing our transgressions.
Jesus as man had to have blood to shed on the cross for our hope salvation.
God Jesus is not the God the Father, they are two persons, one in the nature of being God.

You’ll notice I’ve remained in the book of Hebrews to show you the true nature of Christ—how he was exalted to a position above the angels, something that God Himself cannot experience.

Yes, I'll quote also from Hebrews, Jesus the exact representation of the Father's nature? What is the nature of the Father?
Acts 7:29 and Romans 1:20 said "divine nature". Bible lexicon defined "representation", in Greek "χαρακτήρ charaktēr" as precise reproduction in every respect, exact expression of any person, marked likeness, etc.
While "precise" is defined as marked by exactness and accuracy of expression or detail.

Heb 1:3  N1 And He is the radiance G541  of His glory G1391  and the exact G5481 R1 representation G5481  of His nature G5287 , and  N2 R2 upholds G5342  all G3956  things G3956  by  N3 the word G4487  of His power G1411 . When He had made G4160 R3 purification G2512  of sins G266 , He  R4 sat G2523  down G2523  at the right G1188  hand G1188  of the  R5 Majesty G3172  on high G5308 ,

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Act 17:29 “Therefore, since we are the descendants of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by human skill and thought.

G5481 (Thayer)
χαρακτήρ charaktēr
Thayer Definition:
1) the instrument used for engraving or carving
2) the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
2a) a mark or figure burned in (Lev 13:28) or stamped on, an impression
2b) the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile

pre·cise
adjective
marked by exactness and accuracy of expression or detail

[face2face]

What about Hebrews 5:7?
"In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence."

Do you actually believe this Capbook?

Yes, Jesus as man and in the days of His flesh, the time of His incarnation during which He took all the infirmities of human nature upon Him, and was afflicted in His body and human soul just as other men are. The Redeemer of the world appears here as simply man, but He is the representative of the whole human race. He must make expiation for sin by suffering, and He can suffer only as man. Suffering, was as necessary as death, He took the penalty of our sins by His blood shed on Calvary. As man Jesus had even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me but your will be done." A fear of separation from the Father's protection and the consequences of bearing our sins.

Because if you did, you’d have to reckon with the following:

Can God fear God?

Can God be subject to death?

Can God pray to Himself for deliverance from death—knowing He cannot die?

Already answered above, Jesus even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me" a fear to the consequences of bearing our transgressions.
Jesus as man had to have blood to shed on the cross for our hope salvation.
God Jesus is not the God the Father, they are two persons, one in the nature of being God.

You’ll notice I’ve remained in the book of Hebrews to show you the true nature of Christ—how he was exalted to a position above the angels, something that God Himself cannot experience.

Yes, I'll quote also from Hebrews, Jesus the exact representation of the Father's nature? What is the nature of the Father?
Acts 7:29 and Romans 1:20 said "divine nature". Bible lexicon defined "representation", in Greek "χαρακτήρ charaktēr" as precise reproduction in every respect, exact expression of any person, marked likeness, etc.
While "precise" is defined as marked by exactness and accuracy of expression or detail.

Heb 1:3  N1 And He is the radiance G541  of His glory G1391  and the exact G5481 R1 representation G5481  of His nature G5287 , and  N2 R2 upholds G5342  all G3956  things G3956  by  N3 the word G4487  of His power G1411 . When He had made G4160 R3 purification G2512  of sins G266 , He  R4 sat G2523  down G2523  at the right G1188  hand G1188  of the  R5 Majesty G3172  on high G5308 ,

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Act 17:29 “Therefore, since we are the descendants of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by human skill and thought.

G5481 (Thayer)
χαρακτήρ charaktēr
Thayer Definition:
1) the instrument used for engraving or carving
2) the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
2a) a mark or figure burned in (Lev 13:28) or stamped on, an impression
2b) the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile

pre·cise
adjective
marked by exactness and accuracy of expression or detail

You said "Already answered above, Jesus even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me" a fear to the consequences of bearing our transgressions. Jesus as man had to have blood to shed on the cross for our hope salvation. God Jesus is not the God the Father, they are two persons, one in the nature of being God."

You might remember Capbook—it’s that colored text above, the part you still haven’t shown from Scripture.

Also interesting is the idea that your God seems to have two wills or minds, when Scripture clearly presents God as a single-minded Being.

Looks like you’ve got a bit of work ahead of you!

Do you ever think you will be honest and say "duality cannot be shown from the Bible?"

Recap:

Hebrews 1 - Compares created Jesus made lower than the angels but crowned with Glory by His God
Hebrews 2 - Revealed Jesus to have your nature only "every respect"
Hebrews 5 - We saw how Jesus feared God and prayer for the saving from death

Can you take me (and those reading) to a section in Hebrews that shows Duality of Natures?

F2F

[Capbook]

What about Hebrews 5:7?
"In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence."

Do you actually believe this Capbook?

Yes, Jesus as man and in the days of His flesh, the time of His incarnation during which He took all the infirmities of human nature upon Him, and was afflicted in His body and human soul just as other men are. The Redeemer of the world appears here as simply man, but He is the representative of the whole human race. He must make expiation for sin by suffering, and He can suffer only as man. Suffering, was as necessary as death, He took the penalty of our sins by His blood shed on Calvary. As man Jesus had even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me but your will be done." A fear of separation from the Father's protection and the consequences of bearing our sins.

Because if you did, you’d have to reckon with the following:

Can God fear God?

Can God be subject to death?

Can God pray to Himself for deliverance from death—knowing He cannot die?

Already answered above, Jesus even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me" a fear to the consequences of bearing our transgressions.
Jesus as man had to have blood to shed on the cross for our hope salvation.
God Jesus is not the God the Father, they are two persons, one in the nature of being God.

You’ll notice I’ve remained in the book of Hebrews to show you the true nature of Christ—how he was exalted to a position above the angels, something that God Himself cannot experience.

Yes, I'll quote also from Hebrews, Jesus the exact representation of the Father's nature? What is the nature of the Father?
Acts 7:29 and Romans 1:20 said "divine nature". Bible lexicon defined "representation", in Greek "χαρακτήρ charaktēr" as precise reproduction in every respect, exact expression of any person, marked likeness, etc.
While "precise" is defined as marked by exactness and accuracy of expression or detail.

Heb 1:3  N1 And He is the radiance G541  of His glory G1391  and the exact G5481 R1 representation G5481  of His nature G5287 , and  N2 R2 upholds G5342  all G3956  things G3956  by  N3 the word G4487  of His power G1411 . When He had made G4160 R3 purification G2512  of sins G266 , He  R4 sat G2523  down G2523  at the right G1188  hand G1188  of the  R5 Majesty G3172  on high G5308 ,

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Act 17:29 “Therefore, since we are the descendants of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by human skill and thought.

G5481 (Thayer)
χαρακτήρ charaktēr
Thayer Definition:
1) the instrument used for engraving or carving
2) the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
2a) a mark or figure burned in (Lev 13:28) or stamped on, an impression
2b) the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile

pre·cise
adjective
marked by exactness and accuracy of expression or detail

You said "Already answered above, Jesus even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me" a fear to the consequences of bearing our transgressions. Jesus as man had to have blood to shed on the cross for our hope salvation. God Jesus is not the God the Father, they are two persons, one in the nature of being God."

You might remember Capbook—it’s that colored text above, the part you still haven’t shown from Scripture.

Also interesting is the idea that your God seems to have two wills or minds, when Scripture clearly presents God as a single-minded Being.

Looks like you’ve got a bit of work ahead of you!

Do you ever think you will be honest and say "duality cannot be shown from the Bible?"

Recap:

Hebrews 1 - Compares created Jesus made lower than the angels but crowned with Glory by His God
Hebrews 2 - Revealed Jesus to have your nature only "every respect"
Hebrews 5 - We saw how Jesus feared God and prayer for the saving from death

Can you take me (and those reading) to a section in Hebrews that shows Duality of Natures?

F2F

Regarding to the statement you colored red, Rev 1:9, we can read two "God" the first refer refer to Jesus, and the other refer to the Father. Are the Father's words true or not to you?

Can you cite specific verses so I could see it from literal word for word translations closed to the original languages and not from paraphrase translations? Sometimes we will be misled by paraphrase translations that changed the original Bible words.

[face2face]

What about Hebrews 5:7?
"In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence."

Do you actually believe this Capbook?

Yes, Jesus as man and in the days of His flesh, the time of His incarnation during which He took all the infirmities of human nature upon Him, and was afflicted in His body and human soul just as other men are. The Redeemer of the world appears here as simply man, but He is the representative of the whole human race. He must make expiation for sin by suffering, and He can suffer only as man. Suffering, was as necessary as death, He took the penalty of our sins by His blood shed on Calvary. As man Jesus had even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me but your will be done." A fear of separation from the Father's protection and the consequences of bearing our sins.

Because if you did, you’d have to reckon with the following:

Can God fear God?

Can God be subject to death?

Can God pray to Himself for deliverance from death—knowing He cannot die?

Already answered above, Jesus even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me" a fear to the consequences of bearing our transgressions.
Jesus as man had to have blood to shed on the cross for our hope salvation.
God Jesus is not the God the Father, they are two persons, one in the nature of being God.

You’ll notice I’ve remained in the book of Hebrews to show you the true nature of Christ—how he was exalted to a position above the angels, something that God Himself cannot experience.

Yes, I'll quote also from Hebrews, Jesus the exact representation of the Father's nature? What is the nature of the Father?
Acts 7:29 and Romans 1:20 said "divine nature". Bible lexicon defined "representation", in Greek "χαρακτήρ charaktēr" as precise reproduction in every respect, exact expression of any person, marked likeness, etc.
While "precise" is defined as marked by exactness and accuracy of expression or detail.

Heb 1:3  N1 And He is the radiance G541  of His glory G1391  and the exact G5481 R1 representation G5481  of His nature G5287 , and  N2 R2 upholds G5342  all G3956  things G3956  by  N3 the word G4487  of His power G1411 . When He had made G4160 R3 purification G2512  of sins G266 , He  R4 sat G2523  down G2523  at the right G1188  hand G1188  of the  R5 Majesty G3172  on high G5308 ,

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Act 17:29 “Therefore, since we are the descendants of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by human skill and thought.

G5481 (Thayer)
χαρακτήρ charaktēr
Thayer Definition:
1) the instrument used for engraving or carving
2) the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
2a) a mark or figure burned in (Lev 13:28) or stamped on, an impression
2b) the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile

pre·cise
adjective
marked by exactness and accuracy of expression or detail

You said "Already answered above, Jesus even prayed to the Father "let this cup pass from me" a fear to the consequences of bearing our transgressions. Jesus as man had to have blood to shed on the cross for our hope salvation. God Jesus is not the God the Father, they are two persons, one in the nature of being God."

You might remember Capbook—it’s that colored text above, the part you still haven’t shown from Scripture.

Also interesting is the idea that your God seems to have two wills or minds, when Scripture clearly presents God as a single-minded Being.

Looks like you’ve got a bit of work ahead of you!

Do you ever think you will be honest and say "duality cannot be shown from the Bible?"

Recap:

Hebrews 1 - Compares created Jesus made lower than the angels but crowned with Glory by His God
Hebrews 2 - Revealed Jesus to have your nature only "every respect"
Hebrews 5 - We saw how Jesus feared God and prayer for the saving from death

Can you take me (and those reading) to a section in Hebrews that shows Duality of Natures?

F2F

Regarding to the statement you colored red, Rev 1:9, we can read two "God" the first refer refer to Jesus, and the other refer to the Father. Are the Father's words true or not to you?

Can you cite specific verses so I could see it from literal word for word translations closed to the original languages and not from paraphrase translations? Sometimes we will be misled by paraphrase translations that changed the original Bible words.

Lets continue with Hebrews seeing that is what you began with in your adding to the Word of God.

Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, 2 who was faithful to him who appointed him, just as Moses also was faithful in all God’s house. 3 For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses—as much more glory as the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself. 4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.) 5 Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, 6 but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope. Hebrews 3:1-5

If the Gospel was truly established on Jesus being God would you find statements like "Jesus has been counted worthy of more Glory..."

I wonder if you truly understand the Glory of Yahweh the One True God and how this could never be said of Him!

In fact the Lord Jesus Christ "Glory" finishes at being the "as a Son"

So lets review the list of facts:

Hebrews 1 – Presents Jesus as one who was created lower than the angels for a time, yet later crowned with glory and honor by His God.
Hebrews 2 – Reveals that Jesus shared fully in our human nature, being made like us in “every respect.”
Hebrews 3 – Describes Jesus as having greater glory than Moses, not as a servant, but as the Son of God.
Hebrews 5 – Shows us how Jesus, in reverent submission, feared God and prayed earnestly to be saved from death.

So far in our discussion I am yet to see the slightest hint of duality of Natures or the Complex Dogma which is the Trinity.

Now if you go over to Revelation 1:18 you are told very clearly the nature of Christ existence.

and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive—forever and ever—and I hold the keys of death and of Hades! Re 1:17–18

Again, it becomes a moot point to claim “I was dead” if Jesus is truly God—especially when, in your view, he wasn’t actually dead, and you believe you can reason that out for yourself.

Death is the complete cessation of life and existence—and to bring someone back from that state is, by definition, to raise them from the dead.

Simple Bible concepts such as this are manipulated and the power and meaning of them are removed.

So not only to you not understand who the Lord Jesus Christ is you fail to even understanding you own nature!

In Psalm 78:39, the Spirit through David declares that “flesh is spirit that passes away and does not return.” The King James Version renders it as “flesh is as a wind,” but in Hebrew, the word used is ruach, which is the same word translated “spirit” in Genesis 1:2. So, if we take Scripture seriously, flesh—human nature—is spirit, but a spirit that fades away.

Peter’s reference to the "spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19). These were the people who lived before the flood—flesh and blood, just like us—yet Peter calls them “spirits,” because, according to Scripture, flesh is spirit.

Now, if all humans (and even animals) are referred to as spirit in one sense, what is the key difference between human nature and angelic nature? After all, both are called spirits in the Bible. The most striking difference is this: human nature is a kind of spirit that perishes, while angelic (or divine) nature is spirit that does not perish. One is mortal and corruptible, the other immortal and incorruptible.

There is a fundamental, though not always obvious, distinction between these two types of spirit. This difference is built into creation itself, designed by God, and it is this difference that allows one form to be transformed into the other.

To illustrate: imagine replacing steam power with divine creative power, and iron ore with the dust of the ground. Alone, neither element produces life or function. But when the creative Spirit organizes that dust into complex, living structures—what we call organisms—those structures become vehicles for a vast range of physical, mental, and spiritual expressions.

These organized forms are called “the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 16:22). When God presented these to Adam, each animal received its name—lion, elephant, horse, and so on. Each of these forms—these “spirits”—demonstrates a different kind of vitality and expression based on its design. The Creator gave each form its particular capabilities: the energy and swiftness of the horse, the strength and size of the elephant, and so on. The same divine power animates each creature, but the diversity of form leads to a diversity of outcomes. This is why Moses calls God “the Elohim of the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 27:16).

In short, the form determines the function. God formed man—spirit made from the dust of the ground—and called him flesh, meaning spirit that fades away. Without further intervention from God, this spirit is destined to perish. Yet, humanity stands out as the most advanced of all created forms—our minds are capable of a much higher level of spiritual and rational expression. The difference between instinct and reason lies in the superior design of the human brain.

One day, God’s transforming power will change perishable spirit into imperishable spirit. Those transformed will become equal to the angels, whose nature does not decay or die.

Jesus is the first to be transformed from mortal, sin flesh to divine nature. As such, he is the firstfruits of those who sleep in death, the first to rise from the dead to immortality.

Hebrews, Revelation and Psalm 78:39 all speak to the same lessons concerning the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Don't reply anymore with your nonsense but go away and learn what these things mean and repent of your error.

F2F

[Capbook]

Lets continue with Hebrews seeing that is what you began with in your adding to the Word of God.

I said we can read two word "God" in Heb 1:9, I didn't add, like an "a" to John 1:1.

Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, 2 who was faithful to him who appointed him, just as Moses also was faithful in all God’s house. 3 For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses—as much more glory as the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself. 4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.) 5 Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, 6 but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope. Hebrews 3:1-5

If the Gospel was truly established on Jesus being God would you find statements like "Jesus has been counted worthy of more Glory..."

The Gospel is the good news of Jesus' sacrifice in human form, while we have already seen that the author had proven that Jesus Christ is higher than the angels, higher than Moses, and higher than Aaron. That he is higher than the angels has been already proven in prior chapter.

I wonder if you truly understand the Glory of Yahweh the One True God and how this could never be said of Him!

In fact the Lord Jesus Christ "Glory" finishes at being the "as a Son"

After the 3rd verse of John 17, Jesus had prayed to the Father to glorify Him of the glory which Jesus had with the Father before the world existed. The more glory was referred to Moses and to angels in Hebrew chapter 1.

So lets review the list of facts:

Hebrews 1 – Presents Jesus as one who was created lower than the angels for a time, yet later crowned with glory and honor by His God.
Hebrews 2 – Reveals that Jesus shared fully in our human nature, being made like us in “every respect.”
Hebrews 3 – Describes Jesus as having greater glory than Moses, not as a servant, but as the Son of God.
Hebrews 5 – Shows us how Jesus, in reverent submission, feared God and prayed earnestly to be saved from death.

This is what I mean to you to cite the specific verses, as the word "created" I think I can check and also your other points.

So far in our discussion I am yet to see the slightest hint of duality of Natures or the Complex Dogma which is the Trinity.

Jesus duality can be proven by Jesus words being the Son of man and Son of God, which in the biggest hint you are afraid to answer. For the Trinity, first the three already in existence in the first book and first chapter of the Bible. The baptism of a believer is done in the (singular) "name" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Where definite article is placed before the three. And the benediction of apostle Paul in reference to the three. Father is God, Jesus is proven God in John 1:18, Heb 1:8-9, John 1:1, Psa 45:6-7 etc, and the Holy Spirit in Acts 5:3-4.

Now if you go over to Revelation 1:18 you are told very clearly the nature of Christ existence.

and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive—forever and ever—and I hold the keys of death and of Hades! Re 1:17–18

Again, it becomes a moot point to claim “I was dead” if Jesus is truly God—especially when, in your view, he wasn’t actually dead, and you believe you can reason that out for yourself.

Death is the complete cessation of life and existence—and to bring someone back from that state is, by definition, to raise them from the dead.

Simple Bible concepts such as this are manipulated and the power and meaning of them are removed.

So not only to you not understand who the Lord Jesus Christ is you fail to even understanding you own nature!

You now again proves Jesus human nature, He died for mankind to have hope of salvation in faith. You have confused statements because you don't know what it means of Jesus as "the Son of God".

In Psalm 78:39, the Spirit through David declares that “flesh is spirit that passes away and does not return.” The King James Version renders it as “flesh is as a wind,” but in Hebrew, the word used is ruach, which is the same word translated “spirit” in Genesis 1:2. So, if we take Scripture seriously, flesh—human nature—is spirit, but a spirit that fades away.

Peter’s reference to the "spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19). These were the people who lived before the flood flesh and blood, just like us yet Peter calls them “spirits,” because, according to Scripture, flesh is spirit.

The text was about inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by His just law to destruction. They are represented as being in prison-detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance.

Now, if all humans (and even animals) are referred to as spirit in one sense, what is the key difference between human nature and angelic nature? After all, both are called spirits in the Bible. The most striking difference is this: human nature is a kind of spirit that perishes, while angelic (or divine) nature is spirit that does not perish. One is mortal and corruptible, the other immortal and incorruptible.

God is spirit right? By your explanation can we also like the true God. You seems confused just to justify what happened to Jesus body in heaven.

There is a fundamental, though not always obvious, distinction between these two types of spirit. This difference is built into creation itself, designed by God, and it is this difference that allows one form to be transformed into the other.

To illustrate: imagine replacing steam power with divine creative power, and iron ore with the dust of the ground. Alone, neither element produces life or function. But when the creative Spirit organizes that dust into complex, living structures—what we call organisms—those structures become vehicles for a vast range of physical, mental, and spiritual expressions.

These organized forms are called “the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 16:22). When God presented these to Adam, each animal received its name—lion, elephant, horse, and so on. Each of these forms—these “spirits”—demonstrates a different kind of vitality and expression based on its design. The Creator gave each form its particular capabilities: the energy and swiftness of the horse, the strength and size of the elephant, and so on. The same divine power animates each creature, but the diversity of form leads to a diversity of outcomes. This is why Moses calls God “the Elohim of the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 27:16).

In short, the form determines the function. God formed man—spirit made from the dust of the ground—and called him flesh, meaning spirit that fades away. Without further intervention from God, this spirit is destined to perish. Yet, humanity stands out as the most advanced of all created forms—our minds are capable of a much higher level of spiritual and rational expression. The difference between instinct and reason lies in the superior design of the human brain.

One day, God’s transforming power will change perishable spirit into imperishable spirit. Those transformed will become equal to the angels, whose nature does not decay or die.

Jesus is the first to be transformed from mortal, sin flesh to divine nature. As such, he is the firstfruits of those who sleep in death, the first to rise from the dead to immortality.

Hebrews, Revelation and Psalm 78:39 all speak to the same lessons concerning the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Don't reply anymore with your nonsense but go away and learn what these things mean and repent of your error.

Mankind as spirit, I think that the true nonsense.

I think this is true: Not every discussion is worth our energy. Sometimes, no matter how clearly you express yourself, the other person isn’t listening to understand they’re just reading to react. They’re stuck in their own perspective, unwilling to consider another viewpoint, and engaging with them only drains us.
There’s a difference between a healthy discussion and a pointless debate.
This refers to the logic I've presented that was never addressed, Jesus as the "Son of God", as His Father is God, is He God or not? The honest answer of Jesus as man, being the "Son of a human Mary", why that honest, logical, and explicit answer to Jesus as being man cannot be applied to Jesus as "Son of God?"

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #130]


God put his name in his bible over 7000 places-WHY? Because he wants his name known and used by all--just not in vain.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #130]


God put his name in his bible over 7000 places-WHY? Because he wants his name known and used by all--just not in vain.

Ok, then, what was originally the over 7000 written personal name of the Father? Is it the Tetragrammaton or the Latinized? Used by your church?

[face2face]

Lets continue with Hebrews seeing that is what you began with in your adding to the Word of God.

I said we can read two word "God" in Heb 1:9, I didn't add, like an "a" to John 1:1.

Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, 2 who was faithful to him who appointed him, just as Moses also was faithful in all God’s house. 3 For Jesus has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses—as much more glory as the builder of a house has more honor than the house itself. 4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.) 5 Now Moses was faithful in all God’s house as a servant, to testify to the things that were to be spoken later, 6 but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope. Hebrews 3:1-5

If the Gospel was truly established on Jesus being God would you find statements like "Jesus has been counted worthy of more Glory..."

The Gospel is the good news of Jesus' sacrifice in human form, while we have already seen that the author had proven that Jesus Christ is higher than the angels, higher than Moses, and higher than Aaron. That he is higher than the angels has been already proven in prior chapter.

I wonder if you truly understand the Glory of Yahweh the One True God and how this could never be said of Him!

In fact the Lord Jesus Christ "Glory" finishes at being the "as a Son"

After the 3rd verse of John 17, Jesus had prayed to the Father to glorify Him of the glory which Jesus had with the Father before the world existed. The more glory was referred to Moses and to angels in Hebrew chapter 1.

So lets review the list of facts:

Hebrews 1 – Presents Jesus as one who was created lower than the angels for a time, yet later crowned with glory and honor by His God.
Hebrews 2 – Reveals that Jesus shared fully in our human nature, being made like us in “every respect.”
Hebrews 3 – Describes Jesus as having greater glory than Moses, not as a servant, but as the Son of God.
Hebrews 5 – Shows us how Jesus, in reverent submission, feared God and prayed earnestly to be saved from death.

This is what I mean to you to cite the specific verses, as the word "created" I think I can check and also your other points.

So far in our discussion I am yet to see the slightest hint of duality of Natures or the Complex Dogma which is the Trinity.

Jesus duality can be proven by Jesus words being the Son of man and Son of God, which in the biggest hint you are afraid to answer. For the Trinity, first the three already in existence in the first book and first chapter of the Bible. The baptism of a believer is done in the (singular) "name" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Where definite article is placed before the three. And the benediction of apostle Paul in reference to the three. Father is God, Jesus is proven God in John 1:18, Heb 1:8-9, John 1:1, Psa 45:6-7 etc, and the Holy Spirit in Acts 5:3-4.

Now if you go over to Revelation 1:18 you are told very clearly the nature of Christ existence.

and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive—forever and ever—and I hold the keys of death and of Hades! Re 1:17–18

Again, it becomes a moot point to claim “I was dead” if Jesus is truly God—especially when, in your view, he wasn’t actually dead, and you believe you can reason that out for yourself.

Death is the complete cessation of life and existence—and to bring someone back from that state is, by definition, to raise them from the dead.

Simple Bible concepts such as this are manipulated and the power and meaning of them are removed.

So not only to you not understand who the Lord Jesus Christ is you fail to even understanding you own nature!

You now again proves Jesus human nature, He died for mankind to have hope of salvation in faith. You have confused statements because you don't know what it means of Jesus as "the Son of God".

In Psalm 78:39, the Spirit through David declares that “flesh is spirit that passes away and does not return.” The King James Version renders it as “flesh is as a wind,” but in Hebrew, the word used is ruach, which is the same word translated “spirit” in Genesis 1:2. So, if we take Scripture seriously, flesh—human nature—is spirit, but a spirit that fades away.

Peter’s reference to the "spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19). These were the people who lived before the flood flesh and blood, just like us yet Peter calls them “spirits,” because, according to Scripture, flesh is spirit.

The text was about inhabitants of the antediluvian world, who, having been disobedient, and convicted of the most flagrant transgressions against God, were sentenced by His just law to destruction. They are represented as being in prison-detained under the arrest of Divine justice, which waited either for their repentance.

Now, if all humans (and even animals) are referred to as spirit in one sense, what is the key difference between human nature and angelic nature? After all, both are called spirits in the Bible. The most striking difference is this: human nature is a kind of spirit that perishes, while angelic (or divine) nature is spirit that does not perish. One is mortal and corruptible, the other immortal and incorruptible.

God is spirit right? By your explanation can we also like the true God. You seems confused just to justify what happened to Jesus body in heaven.

There is a fundamental, though not always obvious, distinction between these two types of spirit. This difference is built into creation itself, designed by God, and it is this difference that allows one form to be transformed into the other.

To illustrate: imagine replacing steam power with divine creative power, and iron ore with the dust of the ground. Alone, neither element produces life or function. But when the creative Spirit organizes that dust into complex, living structures—what we call organisms—those structures become vehicles for a vast range of physical, mental, and spiritual expressions.

These organized forms are called “the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 16:22). When God presented these to Adam, each animal received its name—lion, elephant, horse, and so on. Each of these forms—these “spirits”—demonstrates a different kind of vitality and expression based on its design. The Creator gave each form its particular capabilities: the energy and swiftness of the horse, the strength and size of the elephant, and so on. The same divine power animates each creature, but the diversity of form leads to a diversity of outcomes. This is why Moses calls God “the Elohim of the spirits of all flesh” (Numbers 27:16).

In short, the form determines the function. God formed man—spirit made from the dust of the ground—and called him flesh, meaning spirit that fades away. Without further intervention from God, this spirit is destined to perish. Yet, humanity stands out as the most advanced of all created forms—our minds are capable of a much higher level of spiritual and rational expression. The difference between instinct and reason lies in the superior design of the human brain.

One day, God’s transforming power will change perishable spirit into imperishable spirit. Those transformed will become equal to the angels, whose nature does not decay or die.

Jesus is the first to be transformed from mortal, sin flesh to divine nature. As such, he is the firstfruits of those who sleep in death, the first to rise from the dead to immortality.

Hebrews, Revelation and Psalm 78:39 all speak to the same lessons concerning the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Don't reply anymore with your nonsense but go away and learn what these things mean and repent of your error.

Mankind as spirit, I think that the true nonsense.

I think this is true: Not every discussion is worth our energy. Sometimes, no matter how clearly you express yourself, the other person isn’t listening to understand they’re just reading to react. They’re stuck in their own perspective, unwilling to consider another viewpoint, and engaging with them only drains us.
There’s a difference between a healthy discussion and a pointless debate.
This refers to the logic I've presented that was never addressed, Jesus as the "Son of God", as His Father is God, is He God or not? The honest answer of Jesus as man, being the "Son of a human Mary", why that honest, logical, and explicit answer to Jesus as being man cannot be applied to Jesus as "Son of God?"

The debate has become unproductive due to your inability to demonstrate any scriptural basis for a dual nature. If you had been able to provide clear evidence, we could have resolved this quite easily.

As it stands, man perishes—he returns to the dust and is no more, unless he has faith. Christ did not see corruption, but had he been left in the grave, he would have. How loving was His Father to raise Him before that could happen?

But you don't believe Jesus died so you must still be in your sins?

F2F