Jehovah's Witnesses and the Trinity Part 1

[SiNcE_1985]

.

No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

[servant1]

[Replying to face2face in post #120]

Psalm 96:8--Give Jehovah the glory due his name
1Kings 8:43--Name must be known by all
Psalm 105:1-Give thanks to Jah( Jehovah)call on his name
Ex 9:16- Have name declared in all the Earth.
Psalm 96:2--99:3--100:4--= Praise his name

Jesus = John 17:6, 17:26

Every true follower does exactly that--Every true follower keeps on making Jesus' Fathers name known--its being done worldwide daily.

[Capbook]

[Replying to face2face in post #120]

Psalm 96:8--Give Jehovah the glory due his name
1Kings 8:43--Name must be known by all
Psalm 105:1-Give thanks to Jah( Jehovah)call on his name
Ex 9:16- Have name declared in all the Earth.
Psalm 96:2--99:3--100:4--= Praise his name

Jesus = John 17:6, 17:26

Every true follower does exactly that--Every true follower keeps on making Jesus' Fathers name known--its being done worldwide daily.

As I have said to you, I have a resource that still mentioned the Tetragrammaton in the New Testament.
But John 17:6,26 are not one of them. See below, still from TS2009. Did Jesus utter the "Tetragrammaton"? No.
And besides, the Greek word of "name" is "onoma" not what you meant.

(TS2009) Jhn 17:6 “I have revealed Your Name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have guarded Your Word.
(TS2009) Jhn 17:26 “And I have made Your Name known to them,d and shall make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me might be in them, and I in them.

Another verses that mentioned the Tetragrammaton in the New Testament.

Rev 11:17 saying, “We give You thanks, O יהוה Ěl Shaddai, the One who is and who was and who is coming, because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
Rev 16:5 And I heard the messenger of the waters saying, “You are righteous, O יהוה, the One who is and who was and who shall be, because You have judged these.
Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the slaughter-place saying, “Yes, יהוה Ěl Shaddai, true and righteous are Your judgments.”

[Capbook]

Take a moment to look back over those replies—are they really gaining strength with evidence, or are they weakening under closer inspection?

What has more weight to you? Evidence or opinion? Opinion are self-serving, evidence speaks by itself.

Hebrews 1 is clearly about the comparison between Christ and the angels. It reveals the awe-inspiring truth: that Christ, who was made lower than the angels, has now been exalted to a position never held before. That is the real wonder of Hebrews 1.

Another opinion that deny the words of the Father. Evidence? Heb 1:8-9.)

To force a triune dogma into this chapter would only diminish its meaning and strip away the beauty of what it truly reveals.

There is no dual nature presented in this chapter—or anywhere in the book of Hebrews, for that matter.

Another opinion, you already have proven the human nature of Jesus, and the Father words proves the nature of Jesus as God. Evidence? Still Heb 1:8-9.

In fact, the very next chapter plainly sets out Christ’s nature and his qualifications to serve as High Priest: “the man Christ Jesus.” It couldn’t be clearer.

As Ive said, we held that belief that Jesus as man maybe long before the existence of the JW denomination. I think a verse that says, "Jesus is not God" is more compelling than any of your argument.

Remember the phrase "in every respect"?

Out of curiosity—are you aware of what the word every actually means?

Because if we were to apply your interpretation, we’d all end up with "hypostatic natures."

I've change the words to highlight your involvement in the text:

14 Since therefore Capbook shares in flesh and blood, he (Jesus) himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil (sin's power!) 15 and deliver Capbook who through fear of death is subject to lifelong slavery. 16 For surely it is not angels that he (Jesus) helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17 Therefore he (Jesus) had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted
Heb 2:14–18.

Jesus was fully flesh and blood—born of a woman, born into the fallen line of Adam—and he perfectly represented mankind. I know you're aware that there's no duality in this section concerning the nature of Christ. I don’t need responses clouded by your confusion, contradiction or tradition. I believe in the true Christ and understand how God, His Creator, gained victory through His Son.

You don’t see it—and worse, you seem content to stay in that place of ignorance, even as time runs short.

It astounds me how simple the true Gospel is and how confusing you wish to make it.

Thanks once again that you have proven Jesus human nature, whom bear our sins, offering His blood, because without blood there will be no remission of sins. Jesus as God (John 1:1) and as spirit, cannot render that ultimate sacrifice, He had to have human's blood for that sacrifice, and offers us the salvation through faith.

Notice how it was through death God destroyed the devil - what has the power of death? How did God destroy sin in his Son (hint hint!)?

If there's still death, there is sin also. So the destruction of death in the lake of fire, also destroys sin. As the wages of sin is death. Reconstruct your statement if you mean Jesus' sacrifice.

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

[face2face]

Take a moment to look back over those replies—are they really gaining strength with evidence, or are they weakening under closer inspection?

What has more weight to you? Evidence or opinion? Opinion are self-serving, evidence speaks by itself.

Hebrews 1 is clearly about the comparison between Christ and the angels. It reveals the awe-inspiring truth: that Christ, who was made lower than the angels, has now been exalted to a position never held before. That is the real wonder of Hebrews 1.

Another opinion that deny the words of the Father. Evidence? Heb 1:8-9.)

To force a triune dogma into this chapter would only diminish its meaning and strip away the beauty of what it truly reveals.

There is no dual nature presented in this chapter—or anywhere in the book of Hebrews, for that matter.

Another opinion, you already have proven the human nature of Jesus, and the Father words proves the nature of Jesus as God. Evidence? Still Heb 1:8-9.

In fact, the very next chapter plainly sets out Christ’s nature and his qualifications to serve as High Priest: “the man Christ Jesus.” It couldn’t be clearer.

As Ive said, we held that belief that Jesus as man maybe long before the existence of the JW denomination. I think a verse that says, "Jesus is not God" is more compelling than any of your argument.

Remember the phrase "in every respect"?

Out of curiosity—are you aware of what the word every actually means?

Because if we were to apply your interpretation, we’d all end up with "hypostatic natures."

I've change the words to highlight your involvement in the text:

14 Since therefore Capbook shares in flesh and blood, he (Jesus) himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil (sin's power!) 15 and deliver Capbook who through fear of death is subject to lifelong slavery. 16 For surely it is not angels that he (Jesus) helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17 Therefore he (Jesus) had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted
Heb 2:14–18.

Jesus was fully flesh and blood—born of a woman, born into the fallen line of Adam—and he perfectly represented mankind. I know you're aware that there's no duality in this section concerning the nature of Christ. I don’t need responses clouded by your confusion, contradiction or tradition. I believe in the true Christ and understand how God, His Creator, gained victory through His Son.

You don’t see it—and worse, you seem content to stay in that place of ignorance, even as time runs short.

It astounds me how simple the true Gospel is and how confusing you wish to make it.

Thanks once again that you have proven Jesus human nature, whom bear our sins, offering His blood, because without blood there will be no remission of sins. Jesus as God (John 1:1) and as spirit, cannot render that ultimate sacrifice, He had to have human's blood for that sacrifice, and offers us the salvation through faith.

Notice how it was through death God destroyed the devil - what has the power of death? How did God destroy sin in his Son (hint hint!)?

If there's still death, there is sin also. So the destruction of death in the lake of fire, also destroys sin. As the wages of sin is death. Reconstruct your statement if you mean Jesus' sacrifice.

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

It's noted nowhere in your reply did you show duality of nature.

As you said only Christ's human nature is revealed!

F2F

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #122]


YHVH(Jehovah)--not wise to stand against that name.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #122]


YHVH(Jehovah)--not wise to stand against that name.

God's people in the Old Testament refrain from pronouncing the Tetragrammaton as they regarded the name too sacred to be uttered. Even Jesus the Son of God never uttered the personal name of the Father, but some believers today casually vocalized the sacred name. Although it is an artificial Latinized name but it did refer to the Father's personal name.

Yahweh, name for the God of the Israelites, representing the biblical pronunciation of “YHWH,” the Hebrew name revealed to Moses in the book of Exodus. The name YHWH, consisting of the sequence of consonants Yod, Heh, Waw, and Heh, is known as the tetragrammaton.

After the Babylonian Exile (6th century BCE), and especially from the 3rd century BCE on, Jews ceased to use the name Yahweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal rather than merely a local religion, the more common Hebrew noun Elohim (plural in form but understood in the singular), meaning “God,” tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel’s God over all others. At the same time, the divine name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered.

Thus, the tetragrammaton became the artificial Latinized name Jehovah (JeHoWaH). As the use of the name spread throughout medieval Europe, the initial letter J was pronounced according to the local vernacular language rather than Latin.https://www.britannica.com/topic/Yahweh

[Capbook]

Take a moment to look back over those replies—are they really gaining strength with evidence, or are they weakening under closer inspection?

What has more weight to you? Evidence or opinion? Opinion are self-serving, evidence speaks by itself.

Hebrews 1 is clearly about the comparison between Christ and the angels. It reveals the awe-inspiring truth: that Christ, who was made lower than the angels, has now been exalted to a position never held before. That is the real wonder of Hebrews 1.

Another opinion that deny the words of the Father. Evidence? Heb 1:8-9.)

To force a triune dogma into this chapter would only diminish its meaning and strip away the beauty of what it truly reveals.

There is no dual nature presented in this chapter—or anywhere in the book of Hebrews, for that matter.

Another opinion, you already have proven the human nature of Jesus, and the Father words proves the nature of Jesus as God. Evidence? Still Heb 1:8-9.

In fact, the very next chapter plainly sets out Christ’s nature and his qualifications to serve as High Priest: “the man Christ Jesus.” It couldn’t be clearer.

As Ive said, we held that belief that Jesus as man maybe long before the existence of the JW denomination. I think a verse that says, "Jesus is not God" is more compelling than any of your argument.

Remember the phrase "in every respect"?

Out of curiosity—are you aware of what the word every actually means?

Because if we were to apply your interpretation, we’d all end up with "hypostatic natures."

I've change the words to highlight your involvement in the text:

14 Since therefore Capbook shares in flesh and blood, he (Jesus) himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil (sin's power!) 15 and deliver Capbook who through fear of death is subject to lifelong slavery. 16 For surely it is not angels that he (Jesus) helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17 Therefore he (Jesus) had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted
Heb 2:14–18.

Jesus was fully flesh and blood—born of a woman, born into the fallen line of Adam—and he perfectly represented mankind. I know you're aware that there's no duality in this section concerning the nature of Christ. I don’t need responses clouded by your confusion, contradiction or tradition. I believe in the true Christ and understand how God, His Creator, gained victory through His Son.

You don’t see it—and worse, you seem content to stay in that place of ignorance, even as time runs short.

It astounds me how simple the true Gospel is and how confusing you wish to make it.

Thanks once again that you have proven Jesus human nature, whom bear our sins, offering His blood, because without blood there will be no remission of sins. Jesus as God (John 1:1) and as spirit, cannot render that ultimate sacrifice, He had to have human's blood for that sacrifice, and offers us the salvation through faith.

Notice how it was through death God destroyed the devil - what has the power of death? How did God destroy sin in his Son (hint hint!)?

If there's still death, there is sin also. So the destruction of death in the lake of fire, also destroys sin. As the wages of sin is death. Reconstruct your statement if you mean Jesus' sacrifice.

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

It's noted nowhere in your reply did you show duality of nature.

As you said only Christ's human nature is revealed!

F2F

It does, it's just that you refrain to respond to the simple logic before, and is now considered very tough question for you to tackle. Ok, I'll left it unanswered but it will linger in your mind the truth about it.

Another proof for Jesus dual nature, Col 2:9 speaks about Jesus, and in Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament defined the word "Godhead" in Greek "theotes" as the nature or state of being God, deity, divine nature, divine being.
That again proves Jesus' nature of being God, as the Son of God.

Col 2:9
9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

NT:2320
the nature or state of being God - 'deity, divine nature, divine being.'
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

[face2face]

Take a moment to look back over those replies—are they really gaining strength with evidence, or are they weakening under closer inspection?

What has more weight to you? Evidence or opinion? Opinion are self-serving, evidence speaks by itself.

Hebrews 1 is clearly about the comparison between Christ and the angels. It reveals the awe-inspiring truth: that Christ, who was made lower than the angels, has now been exalted to a position never held before. That is the real wonder of Hebrews 1.

Another opinion that deny the words of the Father. Evidence? Heb 1:8-9.)

To force a triune dogma into this chapter would only diminish its meaning and strip away the beauty of what it truly reveals.

There is no dual nature presented in this chapter—or anywhere in the book of Hebrews, for that matter.

Another opinion, you already have proven the human nature of Jesus, and the Father words proves the nature of Jesus as God. Evidence? Still Heb 1:8-9.

In fact, the very next chapter plainly sets out Christ’s nature and his qualifications to serve as High Priest: “the man Christ Jesus.” It couldn’t be clearer.

As Ive said, we held that belief that Jesus as man maybe long before the existence of the JW denomination. I think a verse that says, "Jesus is not God" is more compelling than any of your argument.

Remember the phrase "in every respect"?

Out of curiosity—are you aware of what the word every actually means?

Because if we were to apply your interpretation, we’d all end up with "hypostatic natures."

I've change the words to highlight your involvement in the text:

14 Since therefore Capbook shares in flesh and blood, he (Jesus) himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil (sin's power!) 15 and deliver Capbook who through fear of death is subject to lifelong slavery. 16 For surely it is not angels that he (Jesus) helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17 Therefore he (Jesus) had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted
Heb 2:14–18.

Jesus was fully flesh and blood—born of a woman, born into the fallen line of Adam—and he perfectly represented mankind. I know you're aware that there's no duality in this section concerning the nature of Christ. I don’t need responses clouded by your confusion, contradiction or tradition. I believe in the true Christ and understand how God, His Creator, gained victory through His Son.

You don’t see it—and worse, you seem content to stay in that place of ignorance, even as time runs short.

It astounds me how simple the true Gospel is and how confusing you wish to make it.

Thanks once again that you have proven Jesus human nature, whom bear our sins, offering His blood, because without blood there will be no remission of sins. Jesus as God (John 1:1) and as spirit, cannot render that ultimate sacrifice, He had to have human's blood for that sacrifice, and offers us the salvation through faith.

Notice how it was through death God destroyed the devil - what has the power of death? How did God destroy sin in his Son (hint hint!)?

If there's still death, there is sin also. So the destruction of death in the lake of fire, also destroys sin. As the wages of sin is death. Reconstruct your statement if you mean Jesus' sacrifice.

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

It's noted nowhere in your reply did you show duality of nature.

As you said only Christ's human nature is revealed!

F2F

It does, it's just that you refrain to respond to the simple logic before, and is now considered very tough question for you to tackle. Ok, I'll left it unanswered but it will linger in your mind the truth about it.

Another proof for Jesus dual nature, Col 2:9 speaks about Jesus, and in Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament defined the word "Godhead" in Greek "theotes" as the nature or state of being God, deity, divine nature, divine being.
That again proves Jesus' nature of being God, as the Son of God.

Col 2:9
9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

NT:2320
the nature or state of being God - 'deity, divine nature, divine being.'
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

You're skimming the surface like a stone skipping across a lake—there’s no real depth in your handling of this subject.

Hebrews 2 speaks plainly and powerfully about the true nature of Christ. Paul states not once, but multiple times, that the Lord fully shared our nature, 100%, and that he died in that nature, exactly as God intended from the beginning.

So, I understand now why you'd want to steer away from Hebrews 1 and 2—it makes perfect sense!

What about Hebrews 5:7?

"In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence."

Do you actually believe this?

Because if you did, you’d have to reckon with the following:

Can God fear God?

Can God be subject to death?

Can God pray to Himself for deliverance from death—knowing He cannot die?

What you're defending isn't biblical reality; it's a façade—a staged performance, like a puppet show where God is both the puppet and the puppeteer.

That’s the Trinity.

F2F

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #126]


Only the wicked fear using Gods name in vain. The righteous love Gods name and run to it, praise it, share it. call on it as Gods word shows they do.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #126]


Only the wicked fear using Gods name in vain. The righteous love Gods name and run to it, praise it, share it. call on it as Gods word shows they do.

Do you consider Jesus as one of those I color blue of your statement as He did not taught you to used the Father personal name?
God's people in the OT considered it as most sacred, do you think they are wrong?