King James scholars

[placebofactor]

After reading many of the posts, I am sure there are many well-educated people on this forum, some schooled in the languages of Greek and Hebrew. But being a student compared to being the teacher or those who write the books on languages is vastly different. There are those on this forum who have criticized the K.J.B. and dare to compare it with the Bible their organization has published, or what Westcott and Hort have produced. To me, it’s about credentials.

Of the fifty-four translators who began the work, four were college presidents, six were bishops, five were deans, thirty held PhDs, thirty-nine held master's degrees, there were forty-one university professors, thirteen were masters of the Hebrew language, and ten had mastered Greek. Because of sickness and death, seven men dropped out.

Every man involved in the King James Bible translation believed in the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures, all believed in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and all were men of prayer. The translators of the King James Bible believed that what they had spent nearly seven years of their lives producing was an “exact translation of the holy Scriptures into the English tongue.”

Each man used the resources of Cambridge, Oxford, and Westminster Universities. Historians concur that during this era, the English language had “ripened to its full perfection.” It was also said, the study of Greek, and the oriental languages, and of rabbinical lore, had been carried to a greater extent in England than ever before or since. The character and credentials of the translators were impeccable.
I have listed only five of the 47 men who worked on the King James Bible.

Lancelot Andrewes, while a young student at Cambridge, learned a new language each year during Easter break. After several years, he had mastered most of the languages of Europe. He spoke Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Chaldee, Syriac, Arabic and at least fifteen other languages. It was said of him that he could have been “interpreter general” at the Tower of Babel! He was also reputed to have spent an average of five hours each day in prayer. He was known as “the star of preachers.”

William Bedwell produced translations of the Scriptures into Hebrew, Syriac, Chaldee and Arabic. He produced a Persian dictionary and a three-volume Arabic lexicon. He was a master of the Semitic languages, which shed much light on Hebrew words and phrases, most importantly those Hebrew words and phrases that found their way into the Greek language of the New Testament.

John Bois read through the Hebrew Bible by age five, and by age six was writing Hebrew legibly. He was often found studying Greek at the Cambridge library from four a.m. until 8 p.m. (sixteen hours a day!). Bois tutored many of his fellow students at the University in Greek, and his class was also attended by many of his Greek professors! He had the entire Greek New Testament committed to memory. He practiced fasting twice a week and often gave to help the poor until he had no more to give himself.

Dr. Miles Smith was known as “a walking library.” He was called by his contemporaries “an incomparable theologist.” He had studied all of the writings of the Latin and Greek church fathers, and was as well versed in Arabic, Chaldee and Syriac as he was in English. It was said of Smith that he “had Hebrew at his fingers’ ends.” He was chosen by the other translators to write the Preface to the King James Bible, Miles Smith served as the final editor on the King James translation, perusing the entire text of the Bible before it went to press in 1611.

John Reynolds at the age of 23 was made a Greek lecturer at Corpus Christi College. He gave himself to the study of the Scriptures in the original languages and was an “able and successful preacher.” He had read all the Greek and Latin fathers, and all the records of the ancient church. He was known as “a living library” and “a third university” (Oxford, Cambridge, and John Reynolds!). It is said of him, “The memory and reading of that man were near to a miracle. He was so well skilled in all arts and sciences, as if he had spent his whole life in each of them.”

Of the fifty-four translators, four were college presidents, six were bishops, five were deans, thirty held PhDs, thirty-nine held master's degrees, there were forty-one university professors, thirteen were masters of the Hebrew language, and ten had mastered Greek. Every man involved in the King James Bible translation believed in the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures, all believed in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and all were men of prayer. Yet they were all humble men.

A look at some of the statements of the translators themselves reveals the depth of their convictions concerning the eternal Word of God. They spoke of the Scriptures as “that inestimable treasure which excelleth all the riches of the earth.” They acknowledged the Bible as being “so full and so perfect,” “a fountain of most pure water, springing up into everlasting life.” They believed “the original (Scriptures were) from heaven, not earth; the author being God, not men; the penmen, such as were sanctified from the womb and endued with a principal portion of God’s Spirit.” They referred to the Bible as “God’s Word,” “God's Truth,” “God’s testimony,” “the Word of salvation.

A few closing comments from The Translators to the Reader: Gentle Reader, we commend thee to God, and the Spirit of His grace. He removed the scales from our eyes, the veil from our hearts, opening our wits that we may understand His Word, enlarging our hearts, yea correcting our affections, that we may love it above gold and silver, yea that we may love it to the end.

Ye are brought unto fountains of living water which ye dig not. Others have labored, and you may enter into their labors; O receive not so great things in vain, O despise not so great salvation! It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God; but a blessed thing it is, and will bring us to everlasting blsessedness in the end, when God speaks unto us, to hearken; when He sets His Word before us, to read it; when He stretches out His hand and calleth, to answer, Here am I, here we are to do thy will O God.”

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]


1822 Abner Kneeland a Greek scholar-non trinitarian, non JW, compared Greek to English side by side in his NT translation to prove to the world- a god is correct at John 1:1. 19 other Greek scholars have a god at John 1:1. Its correct.

Servant 1, shame on you comparing Abner Keeland to any of the K.J.B. translators. You must have gotten your information from the Watchtower.

Abner Kneeland studied for one year at an academy in Chesterfield, N.H., but then his formal education stopped. Abner and his older brother went into carpentry. He also taught school and wrote a spelling book. By the age of 27 he joined the Baptist church in nearby Putney, Vt., and began to preach. Within three years he converted to Universalism.

Universalism is the doctrine that all people will one day be saved. Hmmm! Sounds like the Catholic church and their teaching on Purgatory.

Abner Kneeland’s blasphemy indictment claimed that he had written frequent, “attacks on Christian doctrine, that god was a figment of the people’s imagination, and that the story of Jesus was a fable.” He also wrote that miracles did not happen and that the idea of eternal life was unreal.

Abner Kneeland is typical of the Watchtowers' weak support concerning their corrupt Bible, the New World Translation.

Why was it necessary for you to slam the Watchtower in this post? You have to get a dig in at that organization whenever you can, and it really, actually didn't jive with the rest of your post, which was about Abner Kneeland.

I have one goal in life, to get one Jehovah's Witness away from that corrupt organization, or to prevent one person from getting drawn into it. That's my goal. If any witness is seeking the truth, or has any doubt, go elsewhere to find it. It will never be found in the N.W.T.

You say that you have relatives that are Jehovah's Witnesses and you are very cordial to them and have dinner with them, and you've even gone to a meeting with them. So now you're saying that your intimacy with them is a sham and that you are looking to get them away from their "corrupt organization"?

I love my family and every Witness that comes knocking on my door. If you were with them, you would also understand how they feel about me. We respect each other, and believe it or not, I do respect how the Witnesses act in public, raise their families, etc. They are polite and never, ever use foul language. But what you do not understand, there are a lot of nice Muslims, Mormons, and atheists in the world that I also respect, but none of these things have anything to do with salvation. Salvation is a faith surrounded by truth, not niceties. Of course, Christians have to be good, live clean lives, live within the bounds that the Lord has established for us; not within lies and corruption.

To deny the Holy Spirit as an individual part of the Godhead is the Witnesses' first great mistake. How am I ever going to agree with a Witness when, against all common sense, and every rule of English, tell us the Holy Spirit is an "It?" Even your Bible states the Holy Spirit is a He.

Quoted from the N.W.T. John 16:13, "He will guide you into all the truth, for "he" will not speak of his own impulse," Yet you continue to deny he does not mean he. Do you have any Idea how foolish that sounds, not only to me, but to any normal English-speaking person, educated or not.

Secondly, if as you claim "he" is the Father's breath, which it is not, why wouldn't he speak of his own impulse, whatever that means?

Jehovah IS speaking of His own impulse---through His "breath," His Holy Spirit.

If the Holy Spirit is not a person, just a force, breath etc.
Would you yourself make known or introduce your breath, force etc to your friends?
Just like what Jesus did in John 15:26?

John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
KJV

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #15]

New testament an improved version-1808
literal translation of NT-1863
Concise commentary-1885 by R.Young
i understand at least 20 translations has a god.

When one looks at the Greek-The Word is given the same word that satan is given at 2 Cor 4:4, while the true God mentioned at both spots gets a totally different word. One cannot translate that word different at both spots as trinity bibles has done in error-a god is correct.
The whole reason behind the difference is that God gets-God and the other 2 gets god. It was the only way to show the difference.
god= has godlike qualities.

[servant1]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #16]

We used the kjv early 1960,s--Where as its not a real bad translation but still contains errors like a capitol g God to the Word at John 1:1 amongst other errors.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #15]

New testament an improved version-1808
literal translation of NT-1863
Concise commentary-1885 by R.Young
i understand at least 20 translations has a god.

When one looks at the Greek-The Word is given the same word that satan is given at 2 Cor 4:4, while the true God mentioned at both spots gets a totally different word. One cannot translate that word different at both spots as trinity bibles has done in error-a god is correct.
The whole reason behind the difference is that God gets-God and the other 2 gets god. It was the only way to show the difference.
god= has godlike qualities.

I was referring to Abner Kneeland's NT, if you have a link that we could compare his works to others.
Anyway, there are many translations that aims to maintain the highest accuracy to the original languages that rendered John 1:1 "and the word was God" and in Greek it says, "and God was the word." See below;

(ABP+) In G1722  the beginning G746  was G1510.7.3  the G3588  word, G3056  and G2532  the G3588  word G3056  was G1510.7.3  with G4314 G3588  God, G2316  and G2532  [4God G2316  3was G1510.7.3  1the G3588  2word]. G3056 
(Greek NT WH+) εν G1722 PREP  αρχη G746 N-DSF  ην G1510 V-IAI-3S  ο G3588 T-NSM  λογος G3056 N-NSM  και G2532 CONJ  ο G3588 T-NSM  λογος G3056 N-NSM  ην G1510 V-IAI-3S  προς G4314 PREP  τον G3588 T-ASM  θεον G2316 N-ASM  και G2532 CONJ  θεος G2316 N-NSM  ην G1510 V-IAI-3S  ο G3588 T-NSM  λογος G3056 N-NSM 
(NAS95+)  R1 In the beginning G746  was  R2 the Word G3056 , and the Word G3056  was  R3 with God G2316 , and  R4 the Word G3056  was God G2316 .
(NASB+)  R1 In the beginning G746  was  R2 the Word G3056 , and the Word G3056  was  R3 with God G2316 , and  R4 the Word G3056  was God G2316 .
(ASV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ESV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
(TS2009) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim.
(NRSVAue) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #24]

Every translation with capitol G God for the word was done out of error filled Catholicism translating. Thus all using the altered( Gods name removed in over 7000 places) and error filled translations are being mislead and will lose out on being allowed to enter Gods kingdom.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]


1822 Abner Kneeland a Greek scholar-non trinitarian, non JW, compared Greek to English side by side in his NT translation to prove to the world- a god is correct at John 1:1. 19 other Greek scholars have a god at John 1:1. Its correct.

Servant 1, shame on you comparing Abner Keeland to any of the K.J.B. translators. You must have gotten your information from the Watchtower.

Abner Kneeland studied for one year at an academy in Chesterfield, N.H., but then his formal education stopped. Abner and his older brother went into carpentry. He also taught school and wrote a spelling book. By the age of 27 he joined the Baptist church in nearby Putney, Vt., and began to preach. Within three years he converted to Universalism.

Universalism is the doctrine that all people will one day be saved. Hmmm! Sounds like the Catholic church and their teaching on Purgatory.

Abner Kneeland’s blasphemy indictment claimed that he had written frequent, “attacks on Christian doctrine, that god was a figment of the people’s imagination, and that the story of Jesus was a fable.” He also wrote that miracles did not happen and that the idea of eternal life was unreal.

Abner Kneeland is typical of the Watchtowers' weak support concerning their corrupt Bible, the New World Translation.

Why was it necessary for you to slam the Watchtower in this post? You have to get a dig in at that organization whenever you can, and it really, actually didn't jive with the rest of your post, which was about Abner Kneeland.

I have one goal in life, to get one Jehovah's Witness away from that corrupt organization, or to prevent one person from getting drawn into it. That's my goal. If any witness is seeking the truth, or has any doubt, go elsewhere to find it. It will never be found in the N.W.T.

You say that you have relatives that are Jehovah's Witnesses and you are very cordial to them and have dinner with them, and you've even gone to a meeting with them. So now you're saying that your intimacy with them is a sham and that you are looking to get them away from their "corrupt organization"?

I love my family and every Witness that comes knocking on my door. If you were with them, you would also understand how they feel about me. We respect each other, and believe it or not, I do respect how the Witnesses act in public, raise their families, etc. They are polite and never, ever use foul language. But what you do not understand, there are a lot of nice Muslims, Mormons, and atheists in the world that I also respect, but none of these things have anything to do with salvation. Salvation is a faith surrounded by truth, not niceties. Of course, Christians have to be good, live clean lives, live within the bounds that the Lord has established for us; not within lies and corruption.

To deny the Holy Spirit as an individual part of the Godhead is the Witnesses' first great mistake. How am I ever going to agree with a Witness when, against all common sense, and every rule of English, tell us the Holy Spirit is an "It?" Even your Bible states the Holy Spirit is a He.

Quoted from the N.W.T. John 16:13, "He will guide you into all the truth, for "he" will not speak of his own impulse," Yet you continue to deny he does not mean he. Do you have any Idea how foolish that sounds, not only to me, but to any normal English-speaking person, educated or not.

Secondly, if as you claim "he" is the Father's breath, which it is not, why wouldn't he speak of his own impulse, whatever that means?

Jehovah IS speaking of His own impulse---through His "breath," His Holy Spirit.

If the Holy Spirit is not a person, just a force, breath etc.
Would you yourself make known or introduce your breath, force etc to your friends?
Just like what Jesus did in John 15:26?

John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
KJV

Yes I would. Jesus was letting his friends know that Jehovah's active Force would be helping them. You'll notice that Jesus specified that this Force was coming from the Father. It was not coming of its own volition.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to Capbook in post #15]

New testament an improved version-1808
literal translation of NT-1863
Concise commentary-1885 by R.Young
i understand at least 20 translations has a god.

When one looks at the Greek-The Word is given the same word that satan is given at 2 Cor 4:4, while the true God mentioned at both spots gets a totally different word. One cannot translate that word different at both spots as trinity bibles has done in error-a god is correct.
The whole reason behind the difference is that God gets-God and the other 2 gets god. It was the only way to show the difference.
god= has godlike qualities.

I was referring to Abner Kneeland's NT, if you have a link that we could compare his works to others.
Anyway, there are many translations that aims to maintain the highest accuracy to the original languages that rendered John 1:1 "and the word was God" and in Greek it says, "and God was the word." See below;

(ABP+) In G1722  the beginning G746  was G1510.7.3  the G3588  word, G3056  and G2532  the G3588  word G3056  was G1510.7.3  with G4314 G3588  God, G2316  and G2532  [4God G2316  3was G1510.7.3  1the G3588  2word]. G3056 
(Greek NT WH+) εν G1722 PREP  αρχη G746 N-DSF  ην G1510 V-IAI-3S  ο G3588 T-NSM  λογος G3056 N-NSM  και G2532 CONJ  ο G3588 T-NSM  λογος G3056 N-NSM  ην G1510 V-IAI-3S  προς G4314 PREP  τον G3588 T-ASM  θεον G2316 N-ASM  και G2532 CONJ  θεος G2316 N-NSM  ην G1510 V-IAI-3S  ο G3588 T-NSM  λογος G3056 N-NSM 
(NAS95+)  R1 In the beginning G746  was  R2 the Word G3056 , and the Word G3056  was  R3 with God G2316 , and  R4 the Word G3056  was God G2316 .
(NASB+)  R1 In the beginning G746  was  R2 the Word G3056 , and the Word G3056  was  R3 with God G2316 , and  R4 the Word G3056  was God G2316 .
(ASV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ESV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
(TS2009) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim.
(NRSVAue) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I checked out the sources you claim John 1;1 have written, "the word is a god."

New testament an improved version-1808
This “Improved” version of the New Testament was a revision of Newcome’s version (1796), and was published anonymously, by what the title page called “A Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge and the Practice of Virtue by the Distribution of Books.” The publisher’s use of the phrase “Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge” was apparently designed to give people the impression that the version was published by the well-known Anglican organization of that name founded by Thomas Bray in 1698, whose mission was to make inexpensive editions of uncontroversial, orthodox Christian books available to poor churches abroad. The Introduction neglects to mention the fact that the “Society” referred to on the title page was actually the Unitarian Society, and that the sole purpose of the version was to promote Unitarian ideas.
So the works are based on lies.


literal translation of NT-1863
1863. Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], A Literal Translation of the New Testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, on definite rules of translation, from the text of the Vatican Manuscript.

So they used the corrupt B. Vatican manuscripts, the ones with thousands of changes made when they were discovered.

Concise commentary-1885 by R.Young Mr.

All I could find is the following: Young was self-taught, wrote, printed and published his own work. Not very popular. This was not a Bible, but a commentary on the Bible.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #24]

Every translation with capitol G God for the word was done out of error filled Catholicism translating. Thus all using the altered( Gods name removed in over 7000 places) and error filled translations are being mislead and will lose out on being allowed to enter Gods kingdom.

They are literal and word for word translations aiming to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages, meaning to the Hebrew or Greek Bible words.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to Capbook in post #24]

Every translation with capitol G God for the word was done out of error filled Catholicism translating. Thus all using the altered( Gods name removed in over 7000 places) and error filled translations are being mislead and will lose out on being allowed to enter Gods kingdom.

They are literal and word for word translations aiming to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages, meaning to the Hebrew or Greek Bible words.

Ha, ha, ha, "Don't you mean the highest degree of errors?" My guess, 15,000 + errors in that corrupt N.W.T. And please explain to us Christians what "Active force means." Is it like a cat 5 tornado, the ocean waves crashing against a cliff, an earthquake, hitting a nail with a hammer, or just nonsense?

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #28]


Trinity scholars know my words are fact about the removal of Gods name. Anyone can google the tetragramoton and find out truth. Its simple nowadays. There will be no excuse.