Genesis 2:17 - Both 'Day' and 'Surely Die' are Literal. God Did Not Lie.

[Base12]

Those who interpret Genesis 2:17 generally fall into three basic categories:

1. The word 'day' is not literal (e.g. a day with the Lord is a thousand years, etc.).
2. The phrase 'surely die' is not literal (e.g. you will 'begin to die/age', 'spiritually die', 'be separated from God', etc.).
3. 'Day' and 'surely die' are literal, so God either lied or changed his mind.

Here is the verse...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

There is another option, however. It is the one I believe:

• Both 'day' and 'surely die' are literal, however God *did not* lie or change his mind.

As far as I know, I am the only person to ever exist who believes the verse as is, without changing it, as well as God telling the Truth.

Does anyone else interpret Genesis 2:17 this way? Why or why not?

[JehovahsWitness]

An incredible clue as to what is about to be taught is the word 'generations'. This is a word used to describe Genetics. Why would the Heavens and Earth have Genetics? This is something that folks should really study because it is a major Key to deciphering the entire Bible.

• Greater Light = Father Archetype
• Lesser Light = Mother Archetype
• Stars = Child Archetype

See...

Genesis 37:9
"And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me."

And...

Revelation 12:1
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"

The Heavens declare...

Psalms 19:5
"Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race."

Bodies Celestial. The Groom 'runs the race' to consummate the marriage and plant the Star Seed in the Tabernacle.

Jerusalem Above/Mother of us all.

Put it all together.

Are you being sarcastic above or are you suggesting that when we read about the sun and stars in GENESIS they are not to be taken literally ?

[The Tanager]

It is funny that you brought up that particular verse. Did you happen to notice the next one?

Lamentations 3:53
"They have cut off my life in the dungeon, and cast a stone upon me."

Strong's 6789: tsamath
Definition: To cut off, destroy, annihilate

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6789.htm

What if I told you that I believe it was literal? Would it make sense to you? The KJV has it correct.

It wouldn’t make sense to me that those verses are literal assertions, if that is what you are asking. Jeremiah wasn’t literally being hunted like one would hunt a bird, even if he was physically hunted down. And Jeremiah couldn’t have been killed in a dungeon if he’s writing this text.

See my post #5. I am referring to verses with the specific phrase 'surely die'. The verses do not work with the other interpretations like 'begin to die'.

If, among other things, Dan is correct about paronomastic infinitives.

Agreed, however the context *does* require physical death in order to maintain congruency, univocality, etc. I will prove this as time goes on. Hopefully in that new thread I just mentioned.

Okay, I'll try to keep an eye out, but feel free to link to it here or let me know when you post it.

I am surprised you did not reference these verses...

Ephesians 2:1-2
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

Folks think I am insane for believing the verses literally.

Dead means dead. Times past means a very long time ago.

Did you know that only something that is physically dead can be quickened?

1 Corinthians 15:36
"Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die"

How were you quickened if you did not physically die in times past?

How is 1 Cor 15:36 a statement that only physical things that have literally died can be “quickened”? If you think it’s a rule, then point to the verse(s) or other reasoning that shows it is a rule. If this isn’t a rule, then Eph 2:1-2, Psalm 71:20, Psalm 139:15, etc. is still open to either literal or figurative uses.

From which verse(s) are you getting that the three heavens are completed on the third day?

See post #7.

That post is what caused me to ask the question, so it isn’t clear to me. The “three heavens” isn’t a direct phrase in the verses you pointed to.

Does he really? Or does he die like God said and was resurrected on the Sixth Day with a new, mortal body? Have you ever considered that possibility?...

I’m willing to consider it now. Nothing in Genesis says day 6 was a resurrection of Adam that I can see. Or the other typology you are saying is foreshadowed, so give me the reasons this isn’t just possible, but the actual truth.

Note that God created a being called Ishshah, *not Eve* from the rib. Did you notice that? Have you ever questioned why there is another woman that is named Eve much later in the narrative?

Do you really believe that Adam gave the same Woman two different names? See how silly that is? That is a problem that you need to resolve because otherwise, you are teaching that God lied here...

If these accounts are metaphorical, there is no problem here. But even assuming they are literal events, I don’t think your conclusions here necessarily follow. The ‘ishshah’ is the ‘adam’s’ wife (2:25), the one that eats the fruit (3:6), that will have problems with child and husband (3:16), that is then named Eve (3:20). There is no mention of a second woman that becomes his second wife. It doesn’t say God formed Eve (and what happened to Ishshah?) and then brought her to him to be named (like with the animals). And Gen 2:19 doesn’t say anything about Adam can only name things once.

Also, I see nothing silly about giving the same woman a second name/title/description; I have given my wife various names/titles in poems and in real life.

God says that he will eat of the cursed ground all of his days (3:17), not just the rest of this one day of your life.

That is referring to the Second Adam created on the Sixth Day, not the First Adam created on the Third Day. Remember, Jesus is the *last* Adam who rose on the Third Day. Get it? There is a series of Adams.

Last can refer to the second of two just as well. But I thought you said the first adam was the one that ate the fruit. That is the one who receives the judgment in 3:17. Where is the narrative switch to the second Adam?

And how does that work? What exactly does the Tree of Life do? What was its purpose?

I think it is metaphorical, but we are working off of a literal reading for this analysis. The Adam that died later in the day (according to you), God says still has the chance to eat of the tree of life and so he’s got to get kicked out of the garden and then he goes on living for quite some time. He doesn’t physically die.

Also, what do you make of the seventh day of creation (Gen 2:2) not having evening and morning? If taken literally, wouldn’t that mean that day never ended?

What Science calls the Big Bang is what happened when the First Adam and the Woman partook of the Forbidden Zygote.

Participatory Anthropic Principle. Eyes were opened. Wave functions collapsed. Birth of a physical universe. Who knows how much time passed after that.

If folks wish to throw millions of years of Evolution in there, go for it. See if I care.

The death of the First Adam, Ishshah and the Serpent is so much more profound than most can handle.

See Cosmic Egg.

I will leave it there for now.

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that the seventh day isn't a literal 24 hour period?

[Base12]

Are you being sarcastic above...

No.

...or are you suggesting that when we read about the sun and stars in GENESIS they are not to be taken literally ?

Does it say Sun and Moon in this verse?

Genesis 1:16
"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

[Base12]

I think it is metaphorical, but we are working off of a literal reading for this analysis.

The literal reading pertains to Genesis 2:17. I have no issue with symbolic meanings as long as they are clearly defined by verses.

Understanding what the Tree of Life and the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil are symbolic of is imperative to understanding the OP.

What do you believe the metaphors are?

[onewithhim]

An incredible clue as to what is about to be taught is the word 'generations'. This is a word used to describe Genetics. Why would the Heavens and Earth have Genetics? This is something that folks should really study because it is a major Key to deciphering the entire Bible.

• Greater Light = Father Archetype
• Lesser Light = Mother Archetype
• Stars = Child Archetype

See...

Genesis 37:9
"And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me."

And...

Revelation 12:1
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"

The Heavens declare...

Psalms 19:5
"Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race."

Bodies Celestial. The Groom 'runs the race' to consummate the marriage and plant the Star Seed in the Tabernacle.

Jerusalem Above/Mother of us all.

Put it all together.

After all is said and done, a "day" in the account is an undetermined amount of time. Otherwise the first chapter of Genesis and Genesis 2:4 contradict each other and it doesn't make any sense. Gen. chapter 1 says God made the earth and everything on it in "6 days." Gen. 2:4 says it was "a day." A "day" has to be, logically, an undisclosed period of time, undoubtedly thousands of years in length.

[JehovahsWitness]

An incredible clue as to what is about to be taught is the word 'generations'. This is a word used to describe Genetics. Why would the Heavens and Earth have Genetics? This is something that folks should really study because it is a major Key to deciphering the entire Bible.

• Greater Light = Father Archetype
• Lesser Light = Mother Archetype
• Stars = Child Archetype

See...

Genesis 37:9
"And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me."

And...

Revelation 12:1
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"

The Heavens declare...

Psalms 19:5
"Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race."

Bodies Celestial. The Groom 'runs the race' to consummate the marriage and plant the Star Seed in the Tabernacle.

Jerusalem Above/Mother of us all.

Put it all together.

Are you being sarcastic above or are you suggesting that when we read about the sun and stars in GENESIS they are not to be taken literally ?

Does it say Sun and Moon in this verse?

The verse you refer to above, yes. Yes it does say Sun and Moon in the verse you quoted?

My question is ... are you suggesting that when we read about the sun and stars in GENESIS they are not to be taken literally ?

[1213]

...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

...

As far as I know, I am the only person to ever exist who believes the verse as is, without changing it, as well as God telling the Truth.
...

I think the literal version says:

and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.'
Gen. 2:17

And by what is said in the Bible, it could be said that this "life" is the first death, and by this death we shall die.

[Base12]

My question is ... are you suggesting that when we read about the sun and stars in GENESIS they are not to be taken literally ?

The Sun, Moon and Stars can be interpreted as both literally and figuratively, depending on the context. This is true for the entire Bible.

Obviously, they are figurative in Genesis 37:9 of parents and siblings.

• Sun = Father
• Moon = Mother
• Stars = Siblings

The Sun and Moon in Revelation 12:1 are symbolic of sperm (Abraham's Seed) and ovum (Seed of the Woman). The Stars are symbolic of the Twelve Tribes that come forth from their offspring. The entire scene depicts conception.

The Serpent in this context is symbolic of the phallus and Seed of the Serpent that casts a flood of seminal fluid after the Woman's Ovum to corrupt the Seed and Bloodline of Jesus. It is a continuation of the enmity that began in Genesis 3:15.

Scripture tells you what the symbolism of the Moon is right here...

Revelation 12:17
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Again, it represents 'Her Seed' which is nourished. That is what a Womb does. It nourishes Seed. Get it?

What is this word?

https://biblehub.com/greek/4690.htm

Look at the word 'nourished'...

In the New Testament, it often refers to the act of feeding or nurturing, whether it be children, animals, or even spiritual nourishment.

https://biblehub.com/greek/5142.htm

A Morning Star conveys the symbolism of becoming Born Again.

[Base12]

and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.'
Gen. 2:17

And by what is said in the Bible, it could be said that this "life" is the first death, and by this death we shall die.

Your interpretation is close to mine...

"Dying the first death, you shall die the Second Death."

This life is the first death, but for the wicked, there is the Second Death. It is a foreshadowing and typology of the Lake of Fire.

The phrase 'surely die' is always used against someone who disobeyed God and is determined to be wicked. In other words, they are going to Hell and the Lake of Fire. No exceptions.

Thus, in the case of the First Adam and the Woman, the knowledge of good and evil that they acquired was the knowledge of what happens *after* death.

Before the partaking of the Forbidden Zygote, the couple were not ashamed, meaning they had no reproductive organs. After they died, God recreated them *with* reproductive organs. Now they are ashamed.

Shame is our private parts...

Revelation 16:15
"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

They were naked because they were not clothed with skin and flesh yet...

Job 10:11
"Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews."

The point of the two trees were to choose which Parents they would like to be born from. The fruit and leaves of each tree are also symbolic of covering (i.e., DNA/Genetics).

What folks seem to miss is how drastic their physiology changed after partaking. Basically, their DNA was altered to say the least.

Look at the Serpent. God changed Serpent form one form to another. This is a complete alteration of physiology. It is a recreation/reincarnation.

If we really wish to get technical here, God transformed Satan into sperm (his Seed). That is the so called 'snake crawling on its belly'. It is Euphemism.

His Seed became Cain to complete the cycle of rebirth. That is the point of the story. It is about death and rebirth.

[The Tanager]

The literal reading pertains to Genesis 2:17. I have no issue with symbolic meanings as long as they are clearly defined by verses.

Understanding what the Tree of Life and the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil are symbolic of is imperative to understanding the OP.

What do you believe the metaphors are?

Oh, okay, I understand you clearer now. Can you make Dan's case for the paronomastic infinitive? Otherwise it seems like simply an appeal to a single authority for Gen 2:17 being literal, and that isn't a good reason to believe something.

As to your question, I think the tree of life is symbolic of a relationship of trust with God while the second tree is symbolic of humans trying to work it out and decide for themselves what is good for them.