Cults, and mind control

[placebofactor]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe (the) lie:

What is the definition of a cult? A cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization. They are manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from their followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are examples. They deviate from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith derived from the Bible and confirmed through ancient comprehensive, unifying doctrines.

Techniques of the cults are:
1. Repetitive instructions through streaming, books, magazines, and meetings. They hammer home the same basic information repeatedly. Example: Jesus is not God, and there is no Holy Spirit, no hell, no soul or spirit, etc.
2. All new members are told to break their relations with outside friends and to limit fellowship with non-members'.
3. They’re told not to read critical work outside of their publications, especially material from former members.
4. They threaten to shun if rules are broken
5. All ex-members are to be shunned.
6. They verbally attack and undermine the authority of outside institutions, such as religious, educational, medical, and governmental.
7. Their mindset is a coordinated superiority/ inferiority-guilt complex.

They will not stand for their authority to be challenged by any member. They set guidelines to prevent followers from circulating or possessing unauthorized literature. The following examples are from the Watchtower because of my familiarity with their literature.

In the May 1, 1984, Watchtower, under the heading “Questions from Readers” on page 31, the question was asked, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?” Their answer,

“It would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.” I call that, religious totalitarianism.

In their March 15, 1986, issue of the Watchtower featured a photo of a woman tossing mail into the trash before the postman left. The caption, page 12, “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?”

In a November 1, 1987, Watchtower, page 19 they “claim that some Witnesses have exposed themselves to possible spiritual contamination by tuning in to religious radio and television broadcasts.”

Your thoughts:

[Bible_Student]

We're talking about the Holy Spirit, not me. ...

I only know you through your posts, and it seems you are the one speaking negatively about JWs.

I am referring to the holy spirit. In Scripture, it is also referred to as the spirit of Jehovah. If you grasp these terms that denote the same concept, you'll comprehend their significance.

Did you check the gender of the spirit of Jehovah in the rest of the Bible?

Did you know that the Old Testament also speaks of the spirit of God and that the Jews never believed that it was a person?

[servant1]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #46]


Many things in the bible seem like living beings but are not. 1John 5:6-8--spirit, water and blood bear witness= Luke 7:35- Wisdoms children--Romans 5:14,21-sin and death are kings
-FACT=ALL living beings have a personal name-Holy spirit=0

[placebofactor]

We're talking about the Holy Spirit, not me. ...

I only know you through your posts, and it seems you are the one speaking negatively about JWs.

I am referring to the holy spirit. In Scripture, it is also referred to as the spirit of Jehovah. If you grasp these terms that denote the same concept, you'll comprehend their significance.

Did you check the gender of the spirit of Jehovah in the rest of the Bible?

Did you know that the Old Testament also speaks of the spirit of God and that the Jews never believed that it was a person?

No, I am not speaking negatively about the Jehovah's Witnesses, it's their teaching I am speaking against. My family, sisters, brother in-laws, nephews and their children are all Witnesses, and I love them all to death. But we are spiritual enemies.

Psalms 51:11, "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me."

Isaiah 45:16, "Come ye near unto me, hear you this; I (the LORD) have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God (the Father), and his Spirit hath sent me." Here you have the Trinity, the Son is sent, the Father, and the Holy Spirit did the sending.

Why don't we see more of the Holy Spirit in the O.T.?
Genesis 6:3, "The LORD said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he (man) is flesh: yet his days be a hundred and twenty years."

Because the people before the flood resisted the Holy Spirit, He would not remain on the earth. When the flood came, the Holy Spirit returned to his place in heaven. He did have brief encounters with men, but until he was sent by Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit remained before the throne of the Father. Revelation 4:5.

Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John take place while the Jews were still under the law and the Old Testament economy, and Christianity did not exist.
The Holy Spirit made his appearance when Jesus was baptized, but he returned to heaven.
Simon had an encounter with the Holy Ghost, Luke 3:26-27.
Jesus returned to Galilee under the power of the Holy Spirit. Luke 4:14.

[Bible_Student]

No, I am not speaking negatively about the Jehovah's Witnesses, it's their teaching I am speaking against....

I have little interest in unfounded personal viewpoints. From the few comments I've seen from you, it's clear that you lack a true grasp of the teachings of the Bible. Additionally, you seem to overestimate your own knowledge.

I appreciate your time, but I’m not inclined to continue this discussion with you.
Have an excellent day.

[onewithhim]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe (the) lie:

What is the definition of a cult? A cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization. They are manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from their followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are examples. They deviate from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith derived from the Bible and confirmed through ancient comprehensive, unifying doctrines.

Techniques of the cults are:
1. Repetitive instructions through streaming, books, magazines, and meetings. They hammer home the same basic information repeatedly. Example: Jesus is not God, and there is no Holy Spirit, no hell, no soul or spirit, etc.
2. All new members are told to break their relations with outside friends and to limit fellowship with non-members'.
3. They’re told not to read critical work outside of their publications, especially material from former members.
4. They threaten to shun if rules are broken
5. All ex-members are to be shunned.
6. They verbally attack and undermine the authority of outside institutions, such as religious, educational, medical, and governmental.
7. Their mindset is a coordinated superiority/ inferiority-guilt complex.

They will not stand for their authority to be challenged by any member. They set guidelines to prevent followers from circulating or possessing unauthorized literature. The following examples are from the Watchtower because of my familiarity with their literature.

In the May 1, 1984, Watchtower, under the heading “Questions from Readers” on page 31, the question was asked, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?” Their answer,

“It would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.” I call that, religious totalitarianism.

In their March 15, 1986, issue of the Watchtower featured a photo of a woman tossing mail into the trash before the postman left. The caption, page 12, “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?”

In a November 1, 1987, Watchtower, page 19 they “claim that some Witnesses have exposed themselves to possible spiritual contamination by tuning in to religious radio and television broadcasts.”

Your thoughts:

That is mostly true, yet your list of what JWs might do is warped. It is mean and misleading. I agree that reading other religions' literature is like viewing pornography, and I say, "I just don't care to read that stuff, knowing what it's going to say. I know the truth already, so why waste time pretending to go over what the tracts and booklets say?" So I politely demure to take the material being offered to me. And why would we want to look at the televangelists in all their money-grubbing spurious glory? They make me ill. Your words "religious totalitarianism" do not set forth the truth. We get the warning, yet it is on each one of us to make up our minds as to what other religions' literature has to offer us. It turns out to be nothing. Most of us have examined what other religions teach before we became Witnesses. We can honestly say that we know what their literature is going to say. Obviously, you can't say the same about our literature. You don't really know what we believe and why, as your rhetoric and long lists of what we supposedly do show that you do not really know, even though you say you've had long discussions with your relatives.

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

No I'm not denying them. I indicated in my last post that I agreed with what they were saying.

It appears to me that you consider, all T.V. preachers to be corrupt, they're not! Zola Levitt, Less Feldick, Dr. Sproul, John McArthur, and many others. I don't agree on certain small issues with each one, but their basics are correct.

I also believe there is one thing that certain people on this forum are overlooking. I can go around the country and speak to people from many denominations, Baptist, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodist, Independents, etc., people I have never met, yet we agree on the fundamentals. but the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines are only agreeable to other Witnesses, and no one else. This tells me there is one Spirit, one teacher worldwide that teaches individuals who give serious thought to Bible studies, not an organization that has an agenda, and that is based on a foundation of sand or miry clay.

You seem to dismiss what Jesus said at Matthew 7: 14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." The majority seems to be wrong, in Jesus' view.

Christianity was considered to a small apostate religion back in Jesus' day, and everyone else clung to the idea that the Messiah had not come. The majority was wrong. The same today--a relatively small organization of Christ and his brothers is considered to be wrong because it is so different. Don't you think that the true religion would be different?

Okay, 7 billion people worldwide,

1 billion 500 million Muslims.

One billion Hindus.

One billion 500 million Catholics, probably 3/4 of them pray to the dead, Mary, Joseph, St. Christopher, etc., and they call the Pope their Father who claims to be the Vicar of Christ, he who sits in for Christ until he returns.

One billion 500 million Agnostics, atheists, and those who worship the creation and not the Creator.

One billion other religions.

Less than a billion who believe and practice the Christian faith. Those who receive Jesus Christ as their Lord, and Saviour, Redeemer, and Judge. They learn through the Holy Spirit, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, etc.

Before the church came into existence, the Lord was speaking to the Jews, he said in,

Matthew 7:1, "Judge not, that you be not judged," Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law when he said, "Enter you in at the (narrow) gate: for wide in the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" --- "Narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few there be that find it." BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENOUS WOLVES."
Matthew 7:

Yes, I agree. What have you to say about Matthew 7:13,14,21?)

We don't judge. We just observe which religious affiliates are doing the will of the Father. Just as Jesus did in his day. The majority was wrong.

You say you don't judge. Hmmm, Jehovah's Witnesses are told not to marry outside their organization: Don't read material from other Christian churches, don't associate with those who are not witnesses etc. etc. I would say that's a form of judgment, wouldn't you?

The Bible says to "marry only in the Lord." Is that being judgmental? Even Jesus would agree with that, as he would the following.
Why would anyone read something that they knew would contradict their own beliefs? Knowing what they are going to say and avoiding that is saving a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted. JWs are convinced of their own beliefs and know it is the Truth. We are not looking for another avenue to everlasting life. We offer our literature to people who ARE looking for Truth and don't know what the Bible says about that.
JWs are not forbidden to associate with people who are not Witnesses. I have many non-Witnesses in my family and I associate regularly with them. It stands to reason, though, that a person would not spend a lot of time with non-JWs only because of the Bible's admonition to not mix darkness with light. Someone who does not think highly of Jehovah would not be on our same path. I don't have much in common with someone who does not love Jehovah and/or is not familiar with Him. So what is the point in regularly associating with "the world"? (I Corinthians 7:39; II Corinthians 6:14-17; I John 2:15,16)

[Capbook]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe (the) lie:

What is the definition of a cult? A cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization. They are manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from their followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are examples. They deviate from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith derived from the Bible and confirmed through ancient comprehensive, unifying doctrines.

Techniques of the cults are:
1. Repetitive instructions through streaming, books, magazines, and meetings. They hammer home the same basic information repeatedly. Example: Jesus is not God, and there is no Holy Spirit, no hell, no soul or spirit, etc.
2. All new members are told to break their relations with outside friends and to limit fellowship with non-members'.
3. They’re told not to read critical work outside of their publications, especially material from former members.
4. They threaten to shun if rules are broken
5. All ex-members are to be shunned.
6. They verbally attack and undermine the authority of outside institutions, such as religious, educational, medical, and governmental.
7. Their mindset is a coordinated superiority/ inferiority-guilt complex.

They will not stand for their authority to be challenged by any member. They set guidelines to prevent followers from circulating or possessing unauthorized literature. The following examples are from the Watchtower because of my familiarity with their literature.

In the May 1, 1984, Watchtower, under the heading “Questions from Readers” on page 31, the question was asked, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?” Their answer,

“It would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.” I call that, religious totalitarianism.

In their March 15, 1986, issue of the Watchtower featured a photo of a woman tossing mail into the trash before the postman left. The caption, page 12, “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?”

In a November 1, 1987, Watchtower, page 19 they “claim that some Witnesses have exposed themselves to possible spiritual contamination by tuning in to religious radio and television broadcasts.”

Your thoughts:

That is mostly true, yet your list of what JWs might do is warped. It is mean and misleading. I agree that reading other religions' literature is like viewing pornography, and I say, "I just don't care to read that stuff, knowing what it's going to say. I know the truth already, so why waste time pretending to go over what the tracts and booklets say?" So I politely demure to take the material being offered to me. And why would we want to look at the televangelists in all their money-grubbing spurious glory? They make me ill. Your words "religious totalitarianism" do not set forth the truth. We get the warning, yet it is on each one of us to make up our minds as to what other religions' literature has to offer us. It turns out to be nothing. Most of us have examined what other religions teach before we became Witnesses. We can honestly say that we know what their literature is going to say. Obviously, you can't say the same about our literature. You don't really know what we believe and why, as your rhetoric and long lists of what we supposedly do show that you do not really know, even though you say you've had long discussions with your relatives.

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

No I'm not denying them. I indicated in my last post that I agreed with what they were saying.

It appears to me that you consider, all T.V. preachers to be corrupt, they're not! Zola Levitt, Less Feldick, Dr. Sproul, John McArthur, and many others. I don't agree on certain small issues with each one, but their basics are correct.

I also believe there is one thing that certain people on this forum are overlooking. I can go around the country and speak to people from many denominations, Baptist, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodist, Independents, etc., people I have never met, yet we agree on the fundamentals. but the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines are only agreeable to other Witnesses, and no one else. This tells me there is one Spirit, one teacher worldwide that teaches individuals who give serious thought to Bible studies, not an organization that has an agenda, and that is based on a foundation of sand or miry clay.

You seem to dismiss what Jesus said at Matthew 7: 14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." The majority seems to be wrong, in Jesus' view.

Christianity was considered to a small apostate religion back in Jesus' day, and everyone else clung to the idea that the Messiah had not come. The majority was wrong. The same today--a relatively small organization of Christ and his brothers is considered to be wrong because it is so different. Don't you think that the true religion would be different?

Okay, 7 billion people worldwide,

1 billion 500 million Muslims.

One billion Hindus.

One billion 500 million Catholics, probably 3/4 of them pray to the dead, Mary, Joseph, St. Christopher, etc., and they call the Pope their Father who claims to be the Vicar of Christ, he who sits in for Christ until he returns.

One billion 500 million Agnostics, atheists, and those who worship the creation and not the Creator.

One billion other religions.

Less than a billion who believe and practice the Christian faith. Those who receive Jesus Christ as their Lord, and Saviour, Redeemer, and Judge. They learn through the Holy Spirit, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, etc.

Before the church came into existence, the Lord was speaking to the Jews, he said in,

Matthew 7:1, "Judge not, that you be not judged," Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law when he said, "Enter you in at the (narrow) gate: for wide in the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" --- "Narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few there be that find it." BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENOUS WOLVES."
Matthew 7:

Yes, I agree. What have you to say about Matthew 7:13,14,21?)

We don't judge. We just observe which religious affiliates are doing the will of the Father. Just as Jesus did in his day. The majority was wrong.

You say you don't judge. Hmmm, Jehovah's Witnesses are told not to marry outside their organization: Don't read material from other Christian churches, don't associate with those who are not witnesses etc. etc. I would say that's a form of judgment, wouldn't you?

The Bible says to "marry only in the Lord." Is that being judgmental? Even Jesus would agree with that, as he would the following.
Why would anyone read something that they knew would contradict their own beliefs? Knowing what they are going to say and avoiding that is saving a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted. JWs are convinced of their own beliefs and know it is the Truth. We are not looking for another avenue to everlasting life. We offer our literature to people who ARE looking for Truth and don't know what the Bible says about that.
JWs are not forbidden to associate with people who are not Witnesses. I have many non-Witnesses in my family and I associate regularly with them. It stands to reason, though, that a person would not spend a lot of time with non-JWs only because of the Bible's admonition to not mix darkness with light. Someone who does not think highly of Jehovah would not be on our same path. I don't have much in common with someone who does not love Jehovah and/or is not familiar with Him. So what is the point in regularly associating with "the world"? (I Corinthians 7:39; II Corinthians 6:14-17; I John 2:15,16)

Does your church mostly or just some go along with the statements in post #1?
It seems placebofactor is so familiar with your beliefs.

[placebofactor]

That is mostly true, yet your list of what JWs might do is warped. It is mean and misleading. I agree that reading other religions' literature is like viewing pornography, and I say, "I just don't care to read that stuff, knowing what it's going to say. I know the truth already, so why waste time pretending to go over what the tracts and booklets say?" So I politely demure to take the material being offered to me. And why would we want to look at the televangelists in all their money-grubbing spurious glory? They make me ill. Your words "religious totalitarianism" do not set forth the truth. We get the warning, yet it is on each one of us to make up our minds as to what other religions' literature has to offer us. It turns out to be nothing. Most of us have examined what other religions teach before we became Witnesses. We can honestly say that we know what their literature is going to say. Obviously, you can't say the same about our literature. You don't really know what we believe and why, as your rhetoric and long lists of what we supposedly do show that you do not really know, even though you say you've had long discussions with your relatives.

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

No I'm not denying them. I indicated in my last post that I agreed with what they were saying.

It appears to me that you consider, all T.V. preachers to be corrupt, they're not! Zola Levitt, Less Feldick, Dr. Sproul, John McArthur, and many others. I don't agree on certain small issues with each one, but their basics are correct.

I also believe there is one thing that certain people on this forum are overlooking. I can go around the country and speak to people from many denominations, Baptist, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodist, Independents, etc., people I have never met, yet we agree on the fundamentals. but the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines are only agreeable to other Witnesses, and no one else. This tells me there is one Spirit, one teacher worldwide that teaches individuals who give serious thought to Bible studies, not an organization that has an agenda, and that is based on a foundation of sand or miry clay.

You seem to dismiss what Jesus said at Matthew 7: 14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." The majority seems to be wrong, in Jesus' view.

Christianity was considered to a small apostate religion back in Jesus' day, and everyone else clung to the idea that the Messiah had not come. The majority was wrong. The same today--a relatively small organization of Christ and his brothers is considered to be wrong because it is so different. Don't you think that the true religion would be different?

Okay, 7 billion people worldwide,

1 billion 500 million Muslims.

One billion Hindus.

One billion 500 million Catholics, probably 3/4 of them pray to the dead, Mary, Joseph, St. Christopher, etc., and they call the Pope their Father who claims to be the Vicar of Christ, he who sits in for Christ until he returns.

One billion 500 million Agnostics, atheists, and those who worship the creation and not the Creator.

One billion other religions.

Less than a billion who believe and practice the Christian faith. Those who receive Jesus Christ as their Lord, and Saviour, Redeemer, and Judge. They learn through the Holy Spirit, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, etc.

Before the church came into existence, the Lord was speaking to the Jews, he said in,

Matthew 7:1, "Judge not, that you be not judged," Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law when he said, "Enter you in at the (narrow) gate: for wide in the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" --- "Narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few there be that find it." BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENOUS WOLVES."
Matthew 7:

Yes, I agree. What have you to say about Matthew 7:13,14,21?)

We don't judge. We just observe which religious affiliates are doing the will of the Father. Just as Jesus did in his day. The majority was wrong.

You say you don't judge. Hmmm, Jehovah's Witnesses are told not to marry outside their organization: Don't read material from other Christian churches, don't associate with those who are not witnesses etc. etc. I would say that's a form of judgment, wouldn't you?

The Bible says to "marry only in the Lord." Is that being judgmental? Even Jesus would agree with that, as he would the following.

I'm speaking of Christians who are not Jehovah's Witnesses, that you are told not to marry. Baptist, Independents, etc.

Why would anyone read something that they knew would contradict their own beliefs?

How would you know it contradicts your beliefs unless you read it?

Knowing what they are going to say and avoiding that is saving a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted.

Are you a mind reader, knowing what people are going to say before they say it?

JWs are convinced of their own beliefs and know it is the Truth.

I know, there are an awful lot of people in politics and religion that have been brain washed and don't know it.

So, the Jehovah's Witnesses' very different view of the fundamentals of the Christian faith is supposed to be the truth, and the billion- and one-half other Christians are wrong, is that what you're implying? Are we wrong because we're stupid, or just can't read?

We are not looking for another avenue to everlasting life.

Remember, there are two avenues to everlasting life, one leads to heaven, the other hell.

We offer our literature to people who ARE looking for Truth and don't know what the Bible says about that.

Everybody offers literature, so what's new?

JWs are not forbidden to associate with people who are not Witnesses. I have many non-Witnesses in my family and I associate regularly with them. It stands to reason, though, that a person would not spend a lot of time with non-JWs only because of the Bible's admonition to not mix darkness with light.

I would bet, if you studied out of any of the following Bibles, the K.J.B., the N.I.V., the R.S.V., the Douay, Bishop's Bible, and the other 90 on the market, you would change your thinking on many subjects. But as long as you study out of the monthly Watchtower, and the N.W.T. you will never understand.

Someone who does not think highly of Jehovah would not be on our same path.

No Holy Spirit, your path is in knee-deep mud going nowhere.

I don't have much in common with someone who does not love Jehovah and/or is not familiar with Him.

Do you love Christ? All true Christians love the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

So what is the point in regularly associating with "the world"? (I Corinthians 7:39; II Corinthians 6:14-17; I John 2:15,16)

Well, if you feel like that, the government feeds the elderly, they give free Covid and Flu shots, free education: Witnesses collect Social Security, Medical Insurance, have police and military protection, collect pensions, etc. These agencies are part of our world, so why do you associate with them?

Does your church mostly or just some go along with the statements in post #1?
It seems placebofactor is so familiar with your beliefs.

Why do many of us agree with those we have never met, or studied with; from New York to California, to Europe, and Africa, we agree because we have the same Holy Spirit teaching us, not a single-minded organization; and there are a lot of single-minded organizations.

[onewithhim]

That is mostly true, yet your list of what JWs might do is warped. It is mean and misleading. I agree that reading other religions' literature is like viewing pornography, and I say, "I just don't care to read that stuff, knowing what it's going to say. I know the truth already, so why waste time pretending to go over what the tracts and booklets say?" So I politely demure to take the material being offered to me. And why would we want to look at the televangelists in all their money-grubbing spurious glory? They make me ill. Your words "religious totalitarianism" do not set forth the truth. We get the warning, yet it is on each one of us to make up our minds as to what other religions' literature has to offer us. It turns out to be nothing. Most of us have examined what other religions teach before we became Witnesses. We can honestly say that we know what their literature is going to say. Obviously, you can't say the same about our literature. You don't really know what we believe and why, as your rhetoric and long lists of what we supposedly do show that you do not really know, even though you say you've had long discussions with your relatives.

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

No I'm not denying them. I indicated in my last post that I agreed with what they were saying.

It appears to me that you consider, all T.V. preachers to be corrupt, they're not! Zola Levitt, Less Feldick, Dr. Sproul, John McArthur, and many others. I don't agree on certain small issues with each one, but their basics are correct.

I also believe there is one thing that certain people on this forum are overlooking. I can go around the country and speak to people from many denominations, Baptist, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodist, Independents, etc., people I have never met, yet we agree on the fundamentals. but the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines are only agreeable to other Witnesses, and no one else. This tells me there is one Spirit, one teacher worldwide that teaches individuals who give serious thought to Bible studies, not an organization that has an agenda, and that is based on a foundation of sand or miry clay.

You seem to dismiss what Jesus said at Matthew 7: 14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." The majority seems to be wrong, in Jesus' view.

Christianity was considered to a small apostate religion back in Jesus' day, and everyone else clung to the idea that the Messiah had not come. The majority was wrong. The same today--a relatively small organization of Christ and his brothers is considered to be wrong because it is so different. Don't you think that the true religion would be different?

Okay, 7 billion people worldwide,

1 billion 500 million Muslims.

One billion Hindus.

One billion 500 million Catholics, probably 3/4 of them pray to the dead, Mary, Joseph, St. Christopher, etc., and they call the Pope their Father who claims to be the Vicar of Christ, he who sits in for Christ until he returns.

One billion 500 million Agnostics, atheists, and those who worship the creation and not the Creator.

One billion other religions.

Less than a billion who believe and practice the Christian faith. Those who receive Jesus Christ as their Lord, and Saviour, Redeemer, and Judge. They learn through the Holy Spirit, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, etc.

Before the church came into existence, the Lord was speaking to the Jews, he said in,

Matthew 7:1, "Judge not, that you be not judged," Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law when he said, "Enter you in at the (narrow) gate: for wide in the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" --- "Narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few there be that find it." BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENOUS WOLVES."
Matthew 7:

Yes, I agree. What have you to say about Matthew 7:13,14,21?)

We don't judge. We just observe which religious affiliates are doing the will of the Father. Just as Jesus did in his day. The majority was wrong.

You say you don't judge. Hmmm, Jehovah's Witnesses are told not to marry outside their organization: Don't read material from other Christian churches, don't associate with those who are not witnesses etc. etc. I would say that's a form of judgment, wouldn't you?

The Bible says to "marry only in the Lord." Is that being judgmental? Even Jesus would agree with that, as he would the following.
Why would anyone read something that they knew would contradict their own beliefs? Knowing what they are going to say and avoiding that is saving a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted. JWs are convinced of their own beliefs and know it is the Truth. We are not looking for another avenue to everlasting life. We offer our literature to people who ARE looking for Truth and don't know what the Bible says about that.
JWs are not forbidden to associate with people who are not Witnesses. I have many non-Witnesses in my family and I associate regularly with them. It stands to reason, though, that a person would not spend a lot of time with non-JWs only because of the Bible's admonition to not mix darkness with light. Someone who does not think highly of Jehovah would not be on our same path. I don't have much in common with someone who does not love Jehovah and/or is not familiar with Him. So what is the point in regularly associating with "the world"? (I Corinthians 7:39; II Corinthians 6:14-17; I John 2:15,16)

Does your church mostly or just some go along with the statements in post #1?
It seems placebofactor is so familiar with your beliefs.

Placebofactor clearly does not have familiarity with my beliefs. He makes rash statements that have no basis in fact. His imagination gets the better of him.

[onewithhim]

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

No I'm not denying them. I indicated in my last post that I agreed with what they were saying.

It appears to me that you consider, all T.V. preachers to be corrupt, they're not! Zola Levitt, Less Feldick, Dr. Sproul, John McArthur, and many others. I don't agree on certain small issues with each one, but their basics are correct.

I also believe there is one thing that certain people on this forum are overlooking. I can go around the country and speak to people from many denominations, Baptist, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodist, Independents, etc., people I have never met, yet we agree on the fundamentals. but the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines are only agreeable to other Witnesses, and no one else. This tells me there is one Spirit, one teacher worldwide that teaches individuals who give serious thought to Bible studies, not an organization that has an agenda, and that is based on a foundation of sand or miry clay.

You seem to dismiss what Jesus said at Matthew 7: 14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." The majority seems to be wrong, in Jesus' view.

Christianity was considered to a small apostate religion back in Jesus' day, and everyone else clung to the idea that the Messiah had not come. The majority was wrong. The same today--a relatively small organization of Christ and his brothers is considered to be wrong because it is so different. Don't you think that the true religion would be different?

Okay, 7 billion people worldwide,

1 billion 500 million Muslims.

One billion Hindus.

One billion 500 million Catholics, probably 3/4 of them pray to the dead, Mary, Joseph, St. Christopher, etc., and they call the Pope their Father who claims to be the Vicar of Christ, he who sits in for Christ until he returns.

One billion 500 million Agnostics, atheists, and those who worship the creation and not the Creator.

One billion other religions.

Less than a billion who believe and practice the Christian faith. Those who receive Jesus Christ as their Lord, and Saviour, Redeemer, and Judge. They learn through the Holy Spirit, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, etc.

Before the church came into existence, the Lord was speaking to the Jews, he said in,

Matthew 7:1, "Judge not, that you be not judged," Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law when he said, "Enter you in at the (narrow) gate: for wide in the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" --- "Narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few there be that find it." BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENOUS WOLVES."
Matthew 7:

Yes, I agree. What have you to say about Matthew 7:13,14,21?)

We don't judge. We just observe which religious affiliates are doing the will of the Father. Just as Jesus did in his day. The majority was wrong.

You say you don't judge. Hmmm, Jehovah's Witnesses are told not to marry outside their organization: Don't read material from other Christian churches, don't associate with those who are not witnesses etc. etc. I would say that's a form of judgment, wouldn't you?

The Bible says to "marry only in the Lord." Is that being judgmental? Even Jesus would agree with that, as he would the following.

I'm speaking of Christians who are not Jehovah's Witnesses, that you are told not to marry. Baptist, Independents, etc.

Why would anyone read something that they knew would contradict their own beliefs?

How would you know it contradicts your beliefs unless you read it?

Knowing what they are going to say and avoiding that is saving a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted.

Are you a mind reader, knowing what people are going to say before they say it?

JWs are convinced of their own beliefs and know it is the Truth.

I know, there are an awful lot of people in politics and religion that have been brain washed and don't know it.

So, the Jehovah's Witnesses' very different view of the fundamentals of the Christian faith is supposed to be the truth, and the billion- and one-half other Christians are wrong, is that what you're implying? Are we wrong because we're stupid, or just can't read?

We are not looking for another avenue to everlasting life.

Remember, there are two avenues to everlasting life, one leads to heaven, the other hell.

We offer our literature to people who ARE looking for Truth and don't know what the Bible says about that.

Everybody offers literature, so what's new?

JWs are not forbidden to associate with people who are not Witnesses. I have many non-Witnesses in my family and I associate regularly with them. It stands to reason, though, that a person would not spend a lot of time with non-JWs only because of the Bible's admonition to not mix darkness with light.

I would bet, if you studied out of any of the following Bibles, the K.J.B., the N.I.V., the R.S.V., the Douay, Bishop's Bible, and the other 90 on the market, you would change your thinking on many subjects. But as long as you study out of the monthly Watchtower, and the N.W.T. you will never understand.

Someone who does not think highly of Jehovah would not be on our same path.

No Holy Spirit, your path is in knee-deep mud going nowhere.

I don't have much in common with someone who does not love Jehovah and/or is not familiar with Him.

Do you love Christ? All true Christians love the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

So what is the point in regularly associating with "the world"? (I Corinthians 7:39; II Corinthians 6:14-17; I John 2:15,16)

Well, if you feel like that, the government feeds the elderly, they give free Covid and Flu shots, free education: Witnesses collect Social Security, Medical Insurance, have police and military protection, collect pensions, etc. These agencies are part of our world, so why do you associate with them?

Does your church mostly or just some go along with the statements in post #1?
It seems placebofactor is so familiar with your beliefs.

Why do many of us agree with those we have never met, or studied with; from New York to California, to Europe, and Africa, we agree because we have the same Holy Spirit teaching us, not a single-minded organization; and there are a lot of single-minded organizations.

We have Christ's single mind that is directing us. He is with our organization and leads us with his Father's Holy Spirit. You have a spirit leading you but it's not God's.

Remember, the world is "lying in the power of the wicked one," and it stands to reason that most people would be fooled by him. "Broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction and there are many that go thereon." The majority is not necessarily going the right way. (Matthew 7:13,14; IJohn 5:19)

[placebofactor]

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

No I'm not denying them. I indicated in my last post that I agreed with what they were saying.

It appears to me that you consider, all T.V. preachers to be corrupt, they're not! Zola Levitt, Less Feldick, Dr. Sproul, John McArthur, and many others. I don't agree on certain small issues with each one, but their basics are correct.

I also believe there is one thing that certain people on this forum are overlooking. I can go around the country and speak to people from many denominations, Baptist, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodist, Independents, etc., people I have never met, yet we agree on the fundamentals. but the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines are only agreeable to other Witnesses, and no one else. This tells me there is one Spirit, one teacher worldwide that teaches individuals who give serious thought to Bible studies, not an organization that has an agenda, and that is based on a foundation of sand or miry clay.

You seem to dismiss what Jesus said at Matthew 7: 14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." The majority seems to be wrong, in Jesus' view.

Christianity was considered to a small apostate religion back in Jesus' day, and everyone else clung to the idea that the Messiah had not come. The majority was wrong. The same today--a relatively small organization of Christ and his brothers is considered to be wrong because it is so different. Don't you think that the true religion would be different?

Okay, 7 billion people worldwide,

1 billion 500 million Muslims.

One billion Hindus.

One billion 500 million Catholics, probably 3/4 of them pray to the dead, Mary, Joseph, St. Christopher, etc., and they call the Pope their Father who claims to be the Vicar of Christ, he who sits in for Christ until he returns.

One billion 500 million Agnostics, atheists, and those who worship the creation and not the Creator.

One billion other religions.

Less than a billion who believe and practice the Christian faith. Those who receive Jesus Christ as their Lord, and Saviour, Redeemer, and Judge. They learn through the Holy Spirit, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, etc.

Before the church came into existence, the Lord was speaking to the Jews, he said in,

Matthew 7:1, "Judge not, that you be not judged," Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law when he said, "Enter you in at the (narrow) gate: for wide in the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" --- "Narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few there be that find it." BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENOUS WOLVES."
Matthew 7:

Yes, I agree. What have you to say about Matthew 7:13,14,21?)

We don't judge. We just observe which religious affiliates are doing the will of the Father. Just as Jesus did in his day. The majority was wrong.

You say you don't judge. Hmmm, Jehovah's Witnesses are told not to marry outside their organization: Don't read material from other Christian churches, don't associate with those who are not witnesses etc. etc. I would say that's a form of judgment, wouldn't you?

The Bible says to "marry only in the Lord." Is that being judgmental? Even Jesus would agree with that, as he would the following.
Why would anyone read something that they knew would contradict their own beliefs? Knowing what they are going to say and avoiding that is saving a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted. JWs are convinced of their own beliefs and know it is the Truth. We are not looking for another avenue to everlasting life. We offer our literature to people who ARE looking for Truth and don't know what the Bible says about that.
JWs are not forbidden to associate with people who are not Witnesses. I have many non-Witnesses in my family and I associate regularly with them. It stands to reason, though, that a person would not spend a lot of time with non-JWs only because of the Bible's admonition to not mix darkness with light. Someone who does not think highly of Jehovah would not be on our same path. I don't have much in common with someone who does not love Jehovah and/or is not familiar with Him. So what is the point in regularly associating with "the world"? (I Corinthians 7:39; II Corinthians 6:14-17; I John 2:15,16)

Does your church mostly or just some go along with the statements in post #1?
It seems placebofactor is so familiar with your beliefs.

Placebofactor clearly does not have familiarity with my beliefs. He makes rash statements that have no basis in fact. His imagination gets the better of him.

Whoever you are, let me tell you this fact. I forgot more about the Jehovah's Witnesses they you will ever know. I would say you joined for one of several reasons. You like them as people, and so do I. You were born into the organization because your Parents are Witnesses. Lastly, when you first went to a Kingdom Hall, you knew nothing about the Scriptures, and what you heard you thought was right, so now you're a member.