Cults, and mind control

[placebofactor]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe (the) lie:

What is the definition of a cult? A cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization. They are manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from their followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are examples. They deviate from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith derived from the Bible and confirmed through ancient comprehensive, unifying doctrines.

Techniques of the cults are:
1. Repetitive instructions through streaming, books, magazines, and meetings. They hammer home the same basic information repeatedly. Example: Jesus is not God, and there is no Holy Spirit, no hell, no soul or spirit, etc.
2. All new members are told to break their relations with outside friends and to limit fellowship with non-members'.
3. They’re told not to read critical work outside of their publications, especially material from former members.
4. They threaten to shun if rules are broken
5. All ex-members are to be shunned.
6. They verbally attack and undermine the authority of outside institutions, such as religious, educational, medical, and governmental.
7. Their mindset is a coordinated superiority/ inferiority-guilt complex.

They will not stand for their authority to be challenged by any member. They set guidelines to prevent followers from circulating or possessing unauthorized literature. The following examples are from the Watchtower because of my familiarity with their literature.

In the May 1, 1984, Watchtower, under the heading “Questions from Readers” on page 31, the question was asked, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?” Their answer,

“It would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.” I call that, religious totalitarianism.

In their March 15, 1986, issue of the Watchtower featured a photo of a woman tossing mail into the trash before the postman left. The caption, page 12, “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?”

In a November 1, 1987, Watchtower, page 19 they “claim that some Witnesses have exposed themselves to possible spiritual contamination by tuning in to religious radio and television broadcasts.”

Your thoughts:

[marke]

Marke: The Bible is filled with metaphors, analogies, and symbolism. ...

... and when Jesus spoke of worms that never die, it is an example of a metaphor representing a permanent testimony to the utter destruction of the wicked.

Marke: I believe hell is real, not merely a metaphor.

[JehovahsWitness]

Marke: The Bible is filled with metaphors, analogies, and symbolism. ...

... and when Jesus spoke of worms that never die, it is an example of a metaphor representing a permanent testimony to the utter destruction of the wicked.

Marke: I believe hell is real, not merely a metaphor.

I was speaking about the "immortal worms"

[onewithhim]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe (the) lie:

What is the definition of a cult? A cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization. They are manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from their followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are examples. They deviate from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith derived from the Bible and confirmed through ancient comprehensive, unifying doctrines.

Techniques of the cults are:
1. Repetitive instructions through streaming, books, magazines, and meetings. They hammer home the same basic information repeatedly. Example: Jesus is not God, and there is no Holy Spirit, no hell, no soul or spirit, etc.
2. All new members are told to break their relations with outside friends and to limit fellowship with non-members'.
3. They’re told not to read critical work outside of their publications, especially material from former members.
4. They threaten to shun if rules are broken
5. All ex-members are to be shunned.
6. They verbally attack and undermine the authority of outside institutions, such as religious, educational, medical, and governmental.
7. Their mindset is a coordinated superiority/ inferiority-guilt complex.

They will not stand for their authority to be challenged by any member. They set guidelines to prevent followers from circulating or possessing unauthorized literature. The following examples are from the Watchtower because of my familiarity with their literature.

In the May 1, 1984, Watchtower, under the heading “Questions from Readers” on page 31, the question was asked, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?” Their answer,

“It would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.” I call that, religious totalitarianism.

In their March 15, 1986, issue of the Watchtower featured a photo of a woman tossing mail into the trash before the postman left. The caption, page 12, “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?”

In a November 1, 1987, Watchtower, page 19 they “claim that some Witnesses have exposed themselves to possible spiritual contamination by tuning in to religious radio and television broadcasts.”

Your thoughts:

That is mostly true, yet your list of what JWs might do is warped. It is mean and misleading. I agree that reading other religions' literature is like viewing pornography, and I say, "I just don't care to read that stuff, knowing what it's going to say. I know the truth already, so why waste time pretending to go over what the tracts and booklets say?" So I politely demure to take the material being offered to me. And why would we want to look at the televangelists in all their money-grubbing spurious glory? They make me ill. Your words "religious totalitarianism" do not set forth the truth. We get the warning, yet it is on each one of us to make up our minds as to what other religions' literature has to offer us. It turns out to be nothing. Most of us have examined what other religions teach before we became Witnesses. We can honestly say that we know what their literature is going to say. Obviously, you can't say the same about our literature. You don't really know what we believe and why, as your rhetoric and long lists of what we supposedly do show that you do not really know, even though you say you've had long discussions with your relatives.

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

No I'm not denying them. I indicated in my last post that I agreed with what they were saying.

It appears to me that you consider, all T.V. preachers to be corrupt, they're not! Zola Levitt, Less Feldick, Dr. Sproul, John McArthur, and many others. I don't agree on certain small issues with each one, but their basics are correct.

I also believe there is one thing that certain people on this forum are overlooking. I can go around the country and speak to people from many denominations, Baptist, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodist, Independents, etc., people I have never met, yet we agree on the fundamentals. but the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines are only agreeable to other Witnesses, and no one else. This tells me there is one Spirit, one teacher worldwide that teaches individuals who give serious thought to Bible studies, not an organization that has an agenda, and that is based on a foundation of sand or miry clay.

You seem to dismiss what Jesus said at Matthew 7: 14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." The majority seems to be wrong, in Jesus' view.

Christianity was considered to a small apostate religion back in Jesus' day, and everyone else clung to the idea that the Messiah had not come. The majority was wrong. The same today--a relatively small organization of Christ and his brothers is considered to be wrong because it is so different. Don't you think that the true religion would be different?

Okay, 7 billion people worldwide,

1 billion 500 million Muslims.

One billion Hindus.

One billion 500 million Catholics, probably 3/4 of them pray to the dead, Mary, Joseph, St. Christopher, etc., and they call the Pope their Father who claims to be the Vicar of Christ, he who sits in for Christ until he returns.

One billion 500 million Agnostics, atheists, and those who worship the creation and not the Creator.

One billion other religions.

Less than a billion who believe and practice the Christian faith. Those who receive Jesus Christ as their Lord, and Saviour, Redeemer, and Judge. They learn through the Holy Spirit, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, etc.

Before the church came into existence, the Lord was speaking to the Jews, he said in,

Matthew 7:1, "Judge not, that you be not judged," Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law when he said, "Enter you in at the (narrow) gate: for wide in the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" --- "Narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few there be that find it." BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENOUS WOLVES."
Matthew 7:

Yes, I agree. What have you to say about Matthew 7:13,14,21?)

We don't judge. We just observe which religious affiliates are doing the will of the Father. Just as Jesus did in his day. The majority was wrong.

[placebofactor]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11, “They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe (the) lie:

What is the definition of a cult? A cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization. They are manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from their followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are examples. They deviate from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith derived from the Bible and confirmed through ancient comprehensive, unifying doctrines.

Techniques of the cults are:
1. Repetitive instructions through streaming, books, magazines, and meetings. They hammer home the same basic information repeatedly. Example: Jesus is not God, and there is no Holy Spirit, no hell, no soul or spirit, etc.
2. All new members are told to break their relations with outside friends and to limit fellowship with non-members'.
3. They’re told not to read critical work outside of their publications, especially material from former members.
4. They threaten to shun if rules are broken
5. All ex-members are to be shunned.
6. They verbally attack and undermine the authority of outside institutions, such as religious, educational, medical, and governmental.
7. Their mindset is a coordinated superiority/ inferiority-guilt complex.

They will not stand for their authority to be challenged by any member. They set guidelines to prevent followers from circulating or possessing unauthorized literature. The following examples are from the Watchtower because of my familiarity with their literature.

In the May 1, 1984, Watchtower, under the heading “Questions from Readers” on page 31, the question was asked, “Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?” Their answer,

“It would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.” I call that, religious totalitarianism.

In their March 15, 1986, issue of the Watchtower featured a photo of a woman tossing mail into the trash before the postman left. The caption, page 12, “Why is reading apostate publications similar to reading pornographic literature?”

In a November 1, 1987, Watchtower, page 19 they “claim that some Witnesses have exposed themselves to possible spiritual contamination by tuning in to religious radio and television broadcasts.”

Your thoughts:

That is mostly true, yet your list of what JWs might do is warped. It is mean and misleading. I agree that reading other religions' literature is like viewing pornography, and I say, "I just don't care to read that stuff, knowing what it's going to say. I know the truth already, so why waste time pretending to go over what the tracts and booklets say?" So I politely demure to take the material being offered to me. And why would we want to look at the televangelists in all their money-grubbing spurious glory? They make me ill. Your words "religious totalitarianism" do not set forth the truth. We get the warning, yet it is on each one of us to make up our minds as to what other religions' literature has to offer us. It turns out to be nothing. Most of us have examined what other religions teach before we became Witnesses. We can honestly say that we know what their literature is going to say. Obviously, you can't say the same about our literature. You don't really know what we believe and why, as your rhetoric and long lists of what we supposedly do show that you do not really know, even though you say you've had long discussions with your relatives.

I quoted from your own Watchtower. Are you denying the Watchtower quotes? If you are, look them up for yourself.

No I'm not denying them. I indicated in my last post that I agreed with what they were saying.

It appears to me that you consider, all T.V. preachers to be corrupt, they're not! Zola Levitt, Less Feldick, Dr. Sproul, John McArthur, and many others. I don't agree on certain small issues with each one, but their basics are correct.

I also believe there is one thing that certain people on this forum are overlooking. I can go around the country and speak to people from many denominations, Baptist, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodist, Independents, etc., people I have never met, yet we agree on the fundamentals. but the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines are only agreeable to other Witnesses, and no one else. This tells me there is one Spirit, one teacher worldwide that teaches individuals who give serious thought to Bible studies, not an organization that has an agenda, and that is based on a foundation of sand or miry clay.

You seem to dismiss what Jesus said at Matthew 7: 14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." The majority seems to be wrong, in Jesus' view.

Christianity was considered to a small apostate religion back in Jesus' day, and everyone else clung to the idea that the Messiah had not come. The majority was wrong. The same today--a relatively small organization of Christ and his brothers is considered to be wrong because it is so different. Don't you think that the true religion would be different?

Okay, 7 billion people worldwide,

1 billion 500 million Muslims.

One billion Hindus.

One billion 500 million Catholics, probably 3/4 of them pray to the dead, Mary, Joseph, St. Christopher, etc., and they call the Pope their Father who claims to be the Vicar of Christ, he who sits in for Christ until he returns.

One billion 500 million Agnostics, atheists, and those who worship the creation and not the Creator.

One billion other religions.

Less than a billion who believe and practice the Christian faith. Those who receive Jesus Christ as their Lord, and Saviour, Redeemer, and Judge. They learn through the Holy Spirit, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, etc.

Before the church came into existence, the Lord was speaking to the Jews, he said in,

Matthew 7:1, "Judge not, that you be not judged," Jesus was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law when he said, "Enter you in at the (narrow) gate: for wide in the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" --- "Narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few there be that find it." BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENOUS WOLVES."
Matthew 7:

Yes, I agree. What have you to say about Matthew 7:13,14,21?)

We don't judge. We just observe which religious affiliates are doing the will of the Father. Just as Jesus did in his day. The majority was wrong.

You say you don't judge. Hmmm, Jehovah's Witnesses are told not to marry outside their organization: Don't read material from other Christian churches, don't associate with those who are not witnesses etc. etc. I would say that's a form of judgment, wouldn't you?

[servant1]

The only view that counts=God= A house divided( hundreds of trinity based religions) will not stand.--these call the JW religion a cult.
Yet here is a true mark of Jesus' 1 religion that he is with=1Cor 1:10-Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division. The JW,s pass this 100%, while hundreds of trinity based religions fail it 100%.

You all best seriously think on this.

[placebofactor]

The only view that counts=God= A house divided( hundreds of trinity based religions) will not stand.--these call the JW religion a cult.
Yet here is a true mark of Jesus' 1 religion that he is with=1Cor 1:10-Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division. The JW,s pass this 100%, while hundreds of trinity based religions fail it 100%.

You all best seriously think on this.

No Holy Spirit, no truth. John 16:13, "Howbeit when he (the Holy Spirit) the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:"

The pronoun "He" is the stumbling block for Jehovah's Witnesses. The Holy Spirit is not an "it" HE is not the wind or breath of God, He is a He, the third person of the Trinity. Without his direct interaction with each individual, there is no truth, only HE guides us."

To deny the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. Luke 12:10, "Unto him that blasphemes against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven." To deny Him is to blaspheme against him.

[Bible_Student]

...To deny the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin...

"Deny the Holy Spirit"???

Firstly, the phrase “deny the holy spirit” does not appear in the entire Bible.

Secondly, if someone does not agree with you on what you believe the holy spirit is, but understands it differently, it does not mean that they “deny” the holy spirit, but rather that they disagree with what you believe. In either case, it is you that they would be denying.

Thirdly, the holy spirit is rarely mentioned in the masculine gender in the Bible, especially when it is mentioned as a “Helper” to Christians, but in most cases it is mentioned in the neuter gender. If you study the subject more deeply in the original language of Christian writings, then you will learn this.

[placebofactor]

...To deny the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin...

"Deny the Holy Spirit"???

Firstly, the phrase “deny the holy spirit” does not appear in the entire Bible.

Secondly, if someone does not agree with you on what you believe the holy spirit is, but understands it differently, it does not mean that they “deny” the holy spirit, but rather that they disagree with what you believe. In either case, it is you that they would be denying.

Thirdly, the holy spirit is rarely mentioned in the masculine gender in the Bible, especially when it is mentioned as a “Helper” to Christians, but in most cases it is mentioned in the neuter gender. If you study the subject more deeply in the original language of Christian writings, then you will learn this.

Are you giving us the impression that you're a scholar of languages? If so, what are your credentials? Where did you go to school? What books have you written? I spent 14 years doing a Greek-to-English dictionary. And I wouldn't call myself a scholar, just a lover of word study. Check out my website. but you won't, your organization won't allow you to.

Let me explain something to you, I don't have an agenda to fulfill like the Witnesses have. What they are interested in are numbers and making themselves appear as victims.

Explain what "He" means and who "HE" is referring to. Wind or breath is not "He." The breath of the Father would be "it". Your breath, my breath, Jesus' breath, the devil's breath is not "He" but "It." I spoke and when I did, my friends told me to change my mouthwash. "They said, it smells." They didn't say to me, "He smells." Or the wind blew, IT was coming from the west. Not HE was coming from the West.

If the Holy Spirit as you claim is the Father's breath, then explain why it is written,

John 16:13, "For HE (the Holy Spirit) will not speak of himself;" Verse 14, Jesus said, "He will glorify me." Now why would the Father not speak of himself? Why? Because Revelation is not about the Father it's about the Son.

John 15:26, Jesus said, "When the Comforter in come, WHO I WILL SEND UNTO YOU FROM THE FATHER," Did Jesus take the Father's breath from his mouth, then send it to us?

[Bible_Student]

Are you giving us the impression that you're a scholar of languages?...

I am not. That should be you here:

...The pronoun "He" is the stumbling block (...) The Holy Spirit is not an "it" HE is not the wind or breath of God, He is a He, the third person of the Trinity. Without his direct interaction with each individual, there is no truth, only HE guides us."...

But you are obviously not who you want to appear... or else you would know this:

... the holy spirit is rarely mentioned in the masculine gender in the Bible, especially when it is mentioned as a “Helper” to Christians, but in most cases it is mentioned in the neuter gender. If you study the subject more deeply in the original language of Christian writings, then you will learn this.

[placebofactor]

Are you giving us the impression that you're a scholar of languages?...

I am not. That should be you here:

...The pronoun "He" is the stumbling block (...) The Holy Spirit is not an "it" HE is not the wind or breath of God, He is a He, the third person of the Trinity. Without his direct interaction with each individual, there is no truth, only HE guides us."...

But you are obviously not who you want to appear... or else you would know this:

... the holy spirit is rarely mentioned in the masculine gender in the Bible, especially when it is mentioned as a “Helper” to Christians, but in most cases it is mentioned in the neuter gender. If you study the subject more deeply in the original language of Christian writings, then you will learn this.

We're talking about the Holy Spirit, not me. Stop beating around the bush and answer the question, is an inanimate thing ever referred to as "HE or Him?"

Let me help you, Daniel Webster, "He is a male person or male animal."