What do JWs know?

[2ndpillar2]

I just had two JWs come to my house. They said that they do not believe in the Trinity, yet they were quoting from a bible whose canon was produced by Athanasius in 367 A.D., the same guy who was the main proponent of the Trinity doctrine at Constantine's Council of Nicaea. They apparently did not know that Athanasius produced the canon they used, and that he proposed doctrine which is opposite of what they believe. Is this a one off, or is lack of historical context part of the JWs normal routine? They gave their quote of the day, Rev 21:4, without context, and didn't know that Rev 22:15 applied to the same Jerusalem, and that those "who practice lying" would not "enter". As soon as I told them, they turned and walked quickly away. The second time in around so many weeks, that JWs came, and quickly walked away when confronted with their inconsistencies.

[JehovahsWitness]

1 JOHN 5:20 TO WHOM DOES JOHN REFER?

1 JOHN 5:20 NWT

But we know that the Son of God has come,+ and he has given us insight* so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true,+ by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.+

1 JOHN 5:20 Good News Translation

We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we know the true God. We live in union with the true God--in union with his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and this is eternal life.

NOTE "The One who is true" has a Son, evidently then "this one" {that is true} = The Father

"Although it is certainly possible that houtos refers back to Jesus Christ, several converging lines of evidence point to 'the true one,' God the Father, as the probable antecedent. This position, houtos = God [Father], is held by many commentators, authors of general studies, and significantly, by those grammarians who express an opinion on the matter." - p. Trinitarian NT scholar Murray J. Harris analysis Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992.

Does "this one" [houtos] have to refer to the object NEAREST to the demonstrative pronoun ?

As one commentaire pointed out, although [houtos, ‘this one’] may refer to ‘Him that is true’ or to ‘Jesus Christ’. The most natural reference however is to the subject not locally nearest but dominant in the mind of the apostle (comp[are].) c[hapter]. ii.22; 2 John 7; Acts iv.11; vii.19).

"the most natural way of construing hOUTOS in v 20 (which need not refer to the nearest antecedent, and may allude to the main subject of the preceding statement as a whole; cf. 2:22; 2 John 7) is to take it as a reference to God: the God whom we recognize as genuine through the insight given us by his Son, and with whom we are in fellowship through Jesus Christ. 'This is the real God.' It is precisely through knowing him, as the Gospel [John 17:3] maintains, that eternal life itself becomes a reality" - Stephen Smalley's Word Commentary on 1 John:p. 308).

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

FURTHER READING :

• https://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.co ... -true.html

• Greek studies {blog} --> https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... ohn+5%3A20

RELATED POSTS

Why is the Greek houtos not rendered literally as ‘this one’? In the NWT
viewtopic.php?p=1165012#p1165012

[Capbook]

If you do some shopping and see a thing far from you or maybe 10 meters from you, do you say "this one" pointing to that 10 meter distance thing?

1 JOHN 5:20

1 JOHN 5:20 NWT

But we know that the Son of God has come,+ and he has given us insight* so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true,+ by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.+

"Although it is certainly possible that houtos refers back to Jesus Christ, several converging lines of evidence point to 'the true one,' God the Father, as the probable antecedent. This position, houtos = God [Father], is held by many commentators, authors of general studies, and significantly, by those grammarians who express an opinion on the matter." - p. 253, Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992.

I am referring to the "this one" after the name of Jesus Christ. I colored red. Whom is mentioned as the true God and life eternal.

1Jn 5:20 And we know G1492 G1161  that G3754  the G3588  son G5207 G3588  of God G2316  has come, G2240  and G2532  has given G1325  to us G1473  thought G1271  that G2443  we should know G1097  the one G3588  true; G228  and G2532  we are G1510.2.4  in G1722  the one G3588  true, G228  in G1722 G3588  his son G5207 G1473  Jesus G*  Christ. G5547  This one G3778  is G1510.2.3  the G3588  true G228  God, G2316  and G2532  the G3588  life G2222  eternal. G166 

[JehovahsWitness]

I am referring to the "this one" after the name of Jesus Christ. I colored red. Whom is mentioned as the true God and life eternal.

I know, "this one" refers to the Father (JEOVAH) not the Son. ( see commentary See post #151 above )

RELATED POST

To whom does "this one" [Greek "houtos"]refer in 1 John 5:20?
viewtopic.php?p=1164982#p1164982

1 JOHN 5:20 "... we are in union"
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 38#p813238

[Capbook]

I am referring to the "this one" after the name of Jesus Christ. I colored red. Whom is mentioned as the true God and life eternal.

I know, "this one" refers to the Father (JEOVAH) not the Son. ( see commentary above)

RELATED POST

To whom does "this one" refer in 1 John 5:20?
viewtopic.php?p=1164982#p1164982

The Father was referred as "the one" twice.
It seems that the "this one" grammatically refers to the other one nearer to the phrase, as the nearest antecedent whom is Jesus Christ.

[JehovahsWitness]

...It seems that the "this one" grammatically refers to the other one nearer to the phrase, as the nearest antecedent whom is Jesus Christ.

Not necessarily - see the commentary in post #151 CLICK HERE

[Capbook]

...It seems that the "this one" grammatically refers to the other one nearer to the phrase, as the nearest antecedent whom is Jesus Christ.

Not necessarily - see the commentary in post #151 CLICK HERE

There are many commentaries I could quote that differs from yours also.
That "this — Ουτος, he, namely, Christ, the person last mentioned; is the true God and eternal life."

We know — By all these infallible proofs; that the Son of God is come — Into the world; and hath given us an understanding — Hath enlightened our minds; that we may know him that is true — The living and true God, namely, the Father, of whom the apostle appears here to speak; and we are in him that is true — In his favour, and in a state of union and fellowship with him; even — This particle is not in the Greek; in — Or rather; through; his Son Jesus Christ — Through whose mediation alone we can have access to, or intercourse with, the Father. This — Ουτος, he, namely, Christ, the person last mentioned; is the true God and eternal life — He partakes with the Father in proper Deity, and our immortal life is supported by union with him.

[JehovahsWitness]

...It seems that the "this one" grammatically refers to the other one nearer to the phrase, as the nearest antecedent whom is Jesus Christ.

Not necessarily - see the commentary in post #151 CLICK HERE

There are many commentaries ....

Indeed, and opinions differ but that very fact indicates there is no GRAMMATICAL rule that imposes one reading over the other. Contextually , even some TRINITARIANS conclude houtos, [‘this one’] in 1 John 5:20 refers to the FATHER not the Son.

Its ludicrous to suggest that just because the demonstrative pronoun {this} is sometimes obviously refering to Jesus, it must be the case every time the word appears. Obviouly, analysis must be on a case by case basis.

[Capbook]

...It seems that the "this one" grammatically refers to the other one nearer to the phrase, as the nearest antecedent whom is Jesus Christ.

Not necessarily - see the commentary in post #151 CLICK HERE

There are many commentaries ....

Indeed, and opinions differ but that very fact indicates there is no GRAMMATICAL rule that imposes one reading over the other. Contextually , even some TRINITARIANS conclude houtos, [‘this one’] in 1 John 5:20 refers to the FATHER not the Son.

Does the NWT contain the "this one" in the last phrase of 1 John 5:20?

[JehovahsWitness]

Does the NWT contain the "this one" in the last phrase of 1 John 5:20?

It doesn't have to? The NWT is NOT a literal {word for word} translation; the translators endeavor to translate the ideas and thoughts of the writers of the original text. In 1 John 5:20 the writer is obviouly refering to the Father so the translation reflects that idea with the English words and phrasing they see as most appropriate.

Note point #4 of the "mission statement" in the NWT appendix

Communicate the correct sense of a word or a phrase when a literal rendering would distort or obscure the meaning.

Source : https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/stu ... anslation/

JW


RELATED POSTS


RELATED POST

To whom does "this one" [Greek "houtos"]refer in 1 John 5:20?
viewtopic.php?p=1164982#p1164982

[Capbook]

Does the NWT contain the "this one" in the last phrase of 1 John 5:20?

It doesn't have to? The NWT is NOT a literal {word for word} translation; the translators endeavor to translate the ideas and thoughts of the writers of the original text. In 1 John 5:20 the writer is obviouly refering to the Father so the translation reflects that idea with the English words and phrasing they see as most appropriate.

Note point #4 of the "mission statement" in the NWT appendix

Communicate the correct sense of a word or a phrase when a literal rendering would distort or obscure the meaning.

Source : https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/stu ... anslation/

JW


RELATED POSTS


RELATED POST

To whom does "this one" [Greek "houtos"]refer in 1 John 5:20?
viewtopic.php?p=1164982#p1164982

So, this is online statement is wrong?
Yes, "NWT" (New World Translation) is considered a "word-for-word" translation, meaning it aims to translate each word from the original language as directly as possible into the target language, often preserving the original sentence structure, making it a very literal translation of the Bible used by Jehovah's Witnesses.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+nwt+ ... e&ie=UTF-8