My take on Proverbs 8

[placebofactor]

The following from Proverbs 8, is one of the most positive proofs of the Sons relation to his Father. Wisdom refers to the Son of God, He is the Wisdom of God giving further proof of our Lord's Divinity. Proverbs 8 gives us a double sense of prophecy, the same double sense we find in David and Isaiah. The apostle John more than likely alludes to this passage in the introduction of his gospel, where he speaks of the Son of God, under the character of the Logos (or the Word); which can be rendered either the Wisdom, the Reason, or the Word of God.

1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is said to be, “The power of God, and the Wisdom of God." This Divine power and Wisdom have been imparted from the Father, to establish his only begotten Son with infinite skill, insight, knowledge, and wisdom to those who desire to receive it.

Proverbs 8:14, “Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.”

Verse 15, “By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.”
Daniel 2:21, “God “removes kings, and (raises) kings.”

Verse 17, “I love them that love me; and those that seek me early (diligently) shall find me.” Compare with,
Hosea 5:15, the LORD is speaking to Israel, “I will go and return to my place, ---------- and seek my face: in their affliction, they will seek me early (diligently).”

Proverbs 8:19, “My fruit is better than gold,” Compare with,
Revelation 3:18, Jesus is speaking, “I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich.”

Proverbs 8:22, “The LORD (the Father) possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.” Possessed is to set up, to inherit, before the work of creation began. Compare with,
John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Proverbs 8:23, “I (Wisdom) was set up (anointed) from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.” Jesus was enthroned over all the works of the Father. Compare with,
Hebrews 1:9, “God (the Father) has anointed thee (Jesus) with the oil of gladness above they fellows.

Proverbs 8:24, “When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.”
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning"
Genesis 1:3, “And God said let there be light: and there was light.”
2 Corinthians 4:6, “For God (the Father), who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,”

Before the mountains and hill were brought forth before he had made the earth, fields, or dust of the Earth, when he prepared the heavens, and when he drew a circle upon the surface of the deep
Proverbs 8:29-30, "When He (the Father) appointed (decreed) the foundations of the earth..." This is the declaration of the Father's will, concerning the creation of heaven and earth.
Then I (Wisdom, Jesus) was by him, (the Father) as one brought up with Him." The word "brought" is not the same word used in verse 24. Here it means to be trusted, confided in, and believed in, and also implies that Jesus, ascended to, as in will and deed, to His Father's will. Jesus was fixed, permanent, and durable, truth was in Him.

What’s your take on these verses?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is said to be, “The power of God, and the Wisdom of God."

Verse 22, "The LORD (the Father) possessed me (Wisdom) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." The verse declares the Wisdom, or the Word of God, Jesus Christ was the source of all the Father's work of creation. Compare this with John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (the Son of God), and the Word was with God (the Father), and the Word was God (the Creator.)"

Verse 23, He (the Son of God) was set up, meaning "He was anointed, or enthroned over all the works of creation. Psalms 2:6, "I (the Father) have set my king upon my holy hill of Zion."

You make excellent points, though you confuse them with the insistence that Jesus is God, from John 1:1. Anyway, what you have said shows that you believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two different Beings, and Jehovah calls the shots. That is clear from what you've posted here. That is in agreement with what JWs believe.

In a discussion with a friend, they asked me, "What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" and what is better the whole, or the full?"

I told him, "Let’s begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ’s) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

You just showed what being filled with the fullness of God really means. It is not that Christ is fully God, because the verse above says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God. Does that make him equal to God?

Christ is the fulness, as in divine perfections, and in the full measure of the Father's divine perfections. When we are in Christ, we are under the glory and fulness, that is in Christ.

Colossians 2:8, Paul wrote, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Then he writes, "For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This one Greek word Godhead is used only once in the N.T. And in Colossians 2:8, t means, the divine nature and perfections of the Father are in Christ. Another thing we must consider. Paul does not use Jesus' proper name, but his title as the Christ or Messiah. We are in the fulness of his authority as our King, Prophet, and High Priest.

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I might add that the word "Godhead" is not used by all translators, and is unique to the KJV, which other translators emulate. If these versions were translated from the original words, that word would not be part of it. For example:

1) The New Testament in English by Sheed and Ward, 1944, Msgr Knox, newly translated from the Vulgate Latin at the request of their lordships, the Archbishops and Bishops of England and Wales. "In Christ the whole plenitude of Deity is embodied, and dwells in him...." There is no "Godhead" in this translation approved by the "Lordships" of England and Wales.

2) The New American Standard Bible: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." No "Godhead."

3) The New American Bible: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily." No "Godhead."

4) The Revised Standard Version: "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." No "Godhead."

5) The New International Version: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." No "Godhead."

6) 21st Century New Testament: "Remember that he fully embodies divine authority and power." No "Godhead."

7) The Bible in Living English: In him all the fullness of deity is resident in bodily form." No "Godhead."

8) James Moffatt Translation: "It is in Christ that the entire fullness of deity has settled bodily." No "Godhead."

9) The Jerusalem Bible: "In his body lives the fullness of divinity." No "Godhead."

10) The New Jerusalem Bible: "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness." No "Godhead."

I could go on. "Godhead" is not the absolutely correct word in this verse, according to many versions. "Godhead" implies that there are three heads to God, and that is not what the verse is implying. It mentions Christ and God, and how "Christ in his human incarnation [bodily] has fully revealed the moral nature and the loving heart of God, and by his spiritual presence imparts power to live a life of moral rectitude in loving obedience toward God." (See The Interpreter's Bible, Vol.II, Abingdon.)

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is said to be, “The power of God, and the Wisdom of God."

Verse 22, "The LORD (the Father) possessed me (Wisdom) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." The verse declares the Wisdom, or the Word of God, Jesus Christ was the source of all the Father's work of creation. Compare this with John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (the Son of God), and the Word was with God (the Father), and the Word was God (the Creator.)"

Verse 23, He (the Son of God) was set up, meaning "He was anointed, or enthroned over all the works of creation. Psalms 2:6, "I (the Father) have set my king upon my holy hill of Zion."

You make excellent points, though you confuse them with the insistence that Jesus is God, from John 1:1. Anyway, what you have said shows that you believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two different Beings, and Jehovah calls the shots. That is clear from what you've posted here. That is in agreement with what JWs believe.

In a discussion with a friend, they asked me, "What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" and what is better the whole, or the full?"

I told him, "Let’s begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ’s) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

You just showed what being filled with the fullness of God really means. It is not that Christ is fully God, because the verse above says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God. Does that make him equal to God?

Christ is the fulness, as in divine perfections, and in the full measure of the Father's divine perfections. When we are in Christ, we are under the glory and fulness, that is in Christ.

Colossians 2:8, Paul wrote, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Then he writes, "For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This one Greek word Godhead is used only once in the N.T. And in Colossians 2:8, t means, the divine nature and perfections of the Father are in Christ. Another thing we must consider. Paul does not use Jesus' proper name, but his title as the Christ or Messiah. We are in the fulness of his authority as our King, Prophet, and High Priest.

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I might add that the word "Godhead" is not used by all translators, and is unique to the KJV, which other translators emulate. If these versions were translated from the original words, that word would not be part of it. For example:

1) The New Testament in English by Sheed and Ward, 1944, Msgr Knox, newly translated from the Vulgate Latin at the request of their lordships, the Archbishops and Bishops of England and Wales. "In Christ the whole plenitude of Deity is embodied, and dwells in him...." There is no "Godhead" in this translation approved by the "Lordships" of England and Wales.

2) The New American Standard Bible: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." No "Godhead."

3) The New American Bible: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily." No "Godhead."

4) The Revised Standard Version: "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." No "Godhead."

5) The New International Version: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." No "Godhead."

6) 21st Century New Testament: "Remember that he fully embodies divine authority and power." No "Godhead."

7) The Bible in Living English: In him all the fullness of deity is resident in bodily form." No "Godhead."

8) James Moffatt Translation: "It is in Christ that the entire fullness of deity has settled bodily." No "Godhead."

9) The Jerusalem Bible: "In his body lives the fullness of divinity." No "Godhead."

10) The New Jerusalem Bible: "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness." No "Godhead."

I could go on. "Godhead" is not the absolutely correct word in this verse, according to many versions. "Godhead" implies that there are three heads to God, and that is not what the verse is implying. It mentions Christ and God, and how "Christ in his human incarnation [bodily] has fully revealed the moral nature and the loving heart of God, and by his spiritual presence imparts power to live a life of moral rectitude in loving obedience toward God." (See The Interpreter's Bible, Vol.II, Abingdon.)

Yes, some translations used "deity" even the original Greek "deity"i s "theotes" Bible lexicon defined it as the state of being God.


Col 2:9 For   in  him  dwells   all   the   fullness   of the   deity  bodily. 

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

Col 2:9 οτι G3754  εν G1722  αυτω G1473  κατοικει G2730  παν G3956  το G3588  πληρωμα G4138  της G3588  θεοτητος G2320  σωματικως 

Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς

G2320 (Thayer)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is said to be, “The power of God, and the Wisdom of God."

Verse 22, "The LORD (the Father) possessed me (Wisdom) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." The verse declares the Wisdom, or the Word of God, Jesus Christ was the source of all the Father's work of creation. Compare this with John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (the Son of God), and the Word was with God (the Father), and the Word was God (the Creator.)"

Verse 23, He (the Son of God) was set up, meaning "He was anointed, or enthroned over all the works of creation. Psalms 2:6, "I (the Father) have set my king upon my holy hill of Zion."

You make excellent points, though you confuse them with the insistence that Jesus is God, from John 1:1. Anyway, what you have said shows that you believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two different Beings, and Jehovah calls the shots. That is clear from what you've posted here. That is in agreement with what JWs believe.

In a discussion with a friend, they asked me, "What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" and what is better the whole, or the full?"

I told him, "Let’s begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ’s) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

You just showed what being filled with the fullness of God really means. It is not that Christ is fully God, because the verse above says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God. Does that make him equal to God?

Christ is the fulness, as in divine perfections, and in the full measure of the Father's divine perfections. When we are in Christ, we are under the glory and fulness, that is in Christ.

Colossians 2:8, Paul wrote, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Then he writes, "For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This one Greek word Godhead is used only once in the N.T. And in Colossians 2:8, t means, the divine nature and perfections of the Father are in Christ. Another thing we must consider. Paul does not use Jesus' proper name, but his title as the Christ or Messiah. We are in the fulness of his authority as our King, Prophet, and High Priest.

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I might add that the word "Godhead" is not used by all translators, and is unique to the KJV, which other translators emulate. If these versions were translated from the original words, that word would not be part of it. For example:

1) The New Testament in English by Sheed and Ward, 1944, Msgr Knox, newly translated from the Vulgate Latin at the request of their lordships, the Archbishops and Bishops of England and Wales. "In Christ the whole plenitude of Deity is embodied, and dwells in him...." There is no "Godhead" in this translation approved by the "Lordships" of England and Wales.

2) The New American Standard Bible: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." No "Godhead."

3) The New American Bible: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily." No "Godhead."

4) The Revised Standard Version: "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." No "Godhead."

5) The New International Version: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." No "Godhead."

6) 21st Century New Testament: "Remember that he fully embodies divine authority and power." No "Godhead."

7) The Bible in Living English: In him all the fullness of deity is resident in bodily form." No "Godhead."

8) James Moffatt Translation: "It is in Christ that the entire fullness of deity has settled bodily." No "Godhead."

9) The Jerusalem Bible: "In his body lives the fullness of divinity." No "Godhead."

10) The New Jerusalem Bible: "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness." No "Godhead."

I could go on. "Godhead" is not the absolutely correct word in this verse, according to many versions. "Godhead" implies that there are three heads to God, and that is not what the verse is implying. It mentions Christ and God, and how "Christ in his human incarnation [bodily] has fully revealed the moral nature and the loving heart of God, and by his spiritual presence imparts power to live a life of moral rectitude in loving obedience toward God." (See The Interpreter's Bible, Vol.II, Abingdon.)

Yes, some translations used "deity" even the original Greek "deity"i s "theotes" Bible lexicon defined it as the state of being God.


Col 2:9 For   in  him  dwells   all   the   fullness   of the   deity  bodily. 

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

Col 2:9 οτι G3754  εν G1722  αυτω G1473  κατοικει G2730  παν G3956  το G3588  πληρωμα G4138  της G3588  θεοτητος G2320  σωματικως 

Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς

G2320 (Thayer)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Jesus is the fullness OF the Deity, not the Deity Himself. He has enough resemblances to his Father that he can be said to be filled with his Father's attributes. Like Father, like Son.

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is said to be, “The power of God, and the Wisdom of God."

Verse 22, "The LORD (the Father) possessed me (Wisdom) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." The verse declares the Wisdom, or the Word of God, Jesus Christ was the source of all the Father's work of creation. Compare this with John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (the Son of God), and the Word was with God (the Father), and the Word was God (the Creator.)"

Verse 23, He (the Son of God) was set up, meaning "He was anointed, or enthroned over all the works of creation. Psalms 2:6, "I (the Father) have set my king upon my holy hill of Zion."

You make excellent points, though you confuse them with the insistence that Jesus is God, from John 1:1. Anyway, what you have said shows that you believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two different Beings, and Jehovah calls the shots. That is clear from what you've posted here. That is in agreement with what JWs believe.

In a discussion with a friend, they asked me, "What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" and what is better the whole, or the full?"

I told him, "Let’s begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ’s) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

You just showed what being filled with the fullness of God really means. It is not that Christ is fully God, because the verse above says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God. Does that make him equal to God?

Christ is the fulness, as in divine perfections, and in the full measure of the Father's divine perfections. When we are in Christ, we are under the glory and fulness, that is in Christ.

Colossians 2:8, Paul wrote, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Then he writes, "For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This one Greek word Godhead is used only once in the N.T. And in Colossians 2:8, t means, the divine nature and perfections of the Father are in Christ. Another thing we must consider. Paul does not use Jesus' proper name, but his title as the Christ or Messiah. We are in the fulness of his authority as our King, Prophet, and High Priest.

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I might add that the word "Godhead" is not used by all translators, and is unique to the KJV, which other translators emulate. If these versions were translated from the original words, that word would not be part of it. For example:

1) The New Testament in English by Sheed and Ward, 1944, Msgr Knox, newly translated from the Vulgate Latin at the request of their lordships, the Archbishops and Bishops of England and Wales. "In Christ the whole plenitude of Deity is embodied, and dwells in him...." There is no "Godhead" in this translation approved by the "Lordships" of England and Wales.

2) The New American Standard Bible: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." No "Godhead."

3) The New American Bible: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily." No "Godhead."

4) The Revised Standard Version: "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." No "Godhead."

5) The New International Version: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." No "Godhead."

6) 21st Century New Testament: "Remember that he fully embodies divine authority and power." No "Godhead."

7) The Bible in Living English: In him all the fullness of deity is resident in bodily form." No "Godhead."

8) James Moffatt Translation: "It is in Christ that the entire fullness of deity has settled bodily." No "Godhead."

9) The Jerusalem Bible: "In his body lives the fullness of divinity." No "Godhead."

10) The New Jerusalem Bible: "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness." No "Godhead."

I could go on. "Godhead" is not the absolutely correct word in this verse, according to many versions. "Godhead" implies that there are three heads to God, and that is not what the verse is implying. It mentions Christ and God, and how "Christ in his human incarnation [bodily] has fully revealed the moral nature and the loving heart of God, and by his spiritual presence imparts power to live a life of moral rectitude in loving obedience toward God." (See The Interpreter's Bible, Vol.II, Abingdon.)

Yes, some translations used "deity" even the original Greek "deity"i s "theotes" Bible lexicon defined it as the state of being God.


Col 2:9 For   in  him  dwells   all   the   fullness   of the   deity  bodily. 

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

Col 2:9 οτι G3754  εν G1722  αυτω G1473  κατοικει G2730  παν G3956  το G3588  πληρωμα G4138  της G3588  θεοτητος G2320  σωματικως 

Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς

G2320 (Thayer)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Jesus is the fullness OF the Deity, not the Deity Himself. He has enough resemblances to his Father that he can be said to be filled with his Father's attributes. Like Father, like Son.

If you believe that the Father is Deity.
Jesus is Deity.
Would Jesus was wrong when He says, all that the Father has is mine? (John 16:15)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is said to be, “The power of God, and the Wisdom of God."

Verse 22, "The LORD (the Father) possessed me (Wisdom) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." The verse declares the Wisdom, or the Word of God, Jesus Christ was the source of all the Father's work of creation. Compare this with John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (the Son of God), and the Word was with God (the Father), and the Word was God (the Creator.)"

Verse 23, He (the Son of God) was set up, meaning "He was anointed, or enthroned over all the works of creation. Psalms 2:6, "I (the Father) have set my king upon my holy hill of Zion."

You make excellent points, though you confuse them with the insistence that Jesus is God, from John 1:1. Anyway, what you have said shows that you believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two different Beings, and Jehovah calls the shots. That is clear from what you've posted here. That is in agreement with what JWs believe.

In a discussion with a friend, they asked me, "What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" and what is better the whole, or the full?"

I told him, "Let’s begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ’s) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

You just showed what being filled with the fullness of God really means. It is not that Christ is fully God, because the verse above says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God. Does that make him equal to God?

Christ is the fulness, as in divine perfections, and in the full measure of the Father's divine perfections. When we are in Christ, we are under the glory and fulness, that is in Christ.

Colossians 2:8, Paul wrote, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Then he writes, "For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This one Greek word Godhead is used only once in the N.T. And in Colossians 2:8, t means, the divine nature and perfections of the Father are in Christ. Another thing we must consider. Paul does not use Jesus' proper name, but his title as the Christ or Messiah. We are in the fulness of his authority as our King, Prophet, and High Priest.

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I might add that the word "Godhead" is not used by all translators, and is unique to the KJV, which other translators emulate. If these versions were translated from the original words, that word would not be part of it. For example:

1) The New Testament in English by Sheed and Ward, 1944, Msgr Knox, newly translated from the Vulgate Latin at the request of their lordships, the Archbishops and Bishops of England and Wales. "In Christ the whole plenitude of Deity is embodied, and dwells in him...." There is no "Godhead" in this translation approved by the "Lordships" of England and Wales.

2) The New American Standard Bible: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." No "Godhead."

3) The New American Bible: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily." No "Godhead."

4) The Revised Standard Version: "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." No "Godhead."

5) The New International Version: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." No "Godhead."

6) 21st Century New Testament: "Remember that he fully embodies divine authority and power." No "Godhead."

7) The Bible in Living English: In him all the fullness of deity is resident in bodily form." No "Godhead."

8) James Moffatt Translation: "It is in Christ that the entire fullness of deity has settled bodily." No "Godhead."

9) The Jerusalem Bible: "In his body lives the fullness of divinity." No "Godhead."

10) The New Jerusalem Bible: "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness." No "Godhead."

I could go on. "Godhead" is not the absolutely correct word in this verse, according to many versions. "Godhead" implies that there are three heads to God, and that is not what the verse is implying. It mentions Christ and God, and how "Christ in his human incarnation [bodily] has fully revealed the moral nature and the loving heart of God, and by his spiritual presence imparts power to live a life of moral rectitude in loving obedience toward God." (See The Interpreter's Bible, Vol.II, Abingdon.)

Yes, some translations used "deity" even the original Greek "deity"i s "theotes" Bible lexicon defined it as the state of being God.


Col 2:9 For   in  him  dwells   all   the   fullness   of the   deity  bodily. 

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

Col 2:9 οτι G3754  εν G1722  αυτω G1473  κατοικει G2730  παν G3956  το G3588  πληρωμα G4138  της G3588  θεοτητος G2320  σωματικως 

Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς

G2320 (Thayer)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Jesus is the fullness OF the Deity, not the Deity Himself. He has enough resemblances to his Father that he can be said to be filled with his Father's attributes. Like Father, like Son.

If you believe that the Father is Deity.
Jesus is Deity.
Would Jesus was wrong when He says, all that the Father has is mine? (John 16:15)

No, it doesn't follow that Jesus is Deity. Of course he wouldn't say that he would have the Father's own superiority. Jesus said many times that he relied on the Father for everything. The Father is clearly superior. He said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." Don't you believe Jesus' own words?

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is said to be, “The power of God, and the Wisdom of God."

Verse 22, "The LORD (the Father) possessed me (Wisdom) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." The verse declares the Wisdom, or the Word of God, Jesus Christ was the source of all the Father's work of creation. Compare this with John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (the Son of God), and the Word was with God (the Father), and the Word was God (the Creator.)"

Verse 23, He (the Son of God) was set up, meaning "He was anointed, or enthroned over all the works of creation. Psalms 2:6, "I (the Father) have set my king upon my holy hill of Zion."

You make excellent points, though you confuse them with the insistence that Jesus is God, from John 1:1. Anyway, what you have said shows that you believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two different Beings, and Jehovah calls the shots. That is clear from what you've posted here. That is in agreement with what JWs believe.

In a discussion with a friend, they asked me, "What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" and what is better the whole, or the full?"

I told him, "Let’s begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ’s) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

You just showed what being filled with the fullness of God really means. It is not that Christ is fully God, because the verse above says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God. Does that make him equal to God?

Christ is the fulness, as in divine perfections, and in the full measure of the Father's divine perfections. When we are in Christ, we are under the glory and fulness, that is in Christ.

Colossians 2:8, Paul wrote, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Then he writes, "For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This one Greek word Godhead is used only once in the N.T. And in Colossians 2:8, t means, the divine nature and perfections of the Father are in Christ. Another thing we must consider. Paul does not use Jesus' proper name, but his title as the Christ or Messiah. We are in the fulness of his authority as our King, Prophet, and High Priest.

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I might add that the word "Godhead" is not used by all translators, and is unique to the KJV, which other translators emulate. If these versions were translated from the original words, that word would not be part of it. For example:

1) The New Testament in English by Sheed and Ward, 1944, Msgr Knox, newly translated from the Vulgate Latin at the request of their lordships, the Archbishops and Bishops of England and Wales. "In Christ the whole plenitude of Deity is embodied, and dwells in him...." There is no "Godhead" in this translation approved by the "Lordships" of England and Wales.

2) The New American Standard Bible: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." No "Godhead."

3) The New American Bible: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily." No "Godhead."

4) The Revised Standard Version: "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." No "Godhead."

5) The New International Version: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." No "Godhead."

6) 21st Century New Testament: "Remember that he fully embodies divine authority and power." No "Godhead."

7) The Bible in Living English: In him all the fullness of deity is resident in bodily form." No "Godhead."

8) James Moffatt Translation: "It is in Christ that the entire fullness of deity has settled bodily." No "Godhead."

9) The Jerusalem Bible: "In his body lives the fullness of divinity." No "Godhead."

10) The New Jerusalem Bible: "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness." No "Godhead."

I could go on. "Godhead" is not the absolutely correct word in this verse, according to many versions. "Godhead" implies that there are three heads to God, and that is not what the verse is implying. It mentions Christ and God, and how "Christ in his human incarnation [bodily] has fully revealed the moral nature and the loving heart of God, and by his spiritual presence imparts power to live a life of moral rectitude in loving obedience toward God." (See The Interpreter's Bible, Vol.II, Abingdon.)

Yes, some translations used "deity" even the original Greek "deity"i s "theotes" Bible lexicon defined it as the state of being God.


Col 2:9 For   in  him  dwells   all   the   fullness   of the   deity  bodily. 

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

Col 2:9 οτι G3754  εν G1722  αυτω G1473  κατοικει G2730  παν G3956  το G3588  πληρωμα G4138  της G3588  θεοτητος G2320  σωματικως 

Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς

G2320 (Thayer)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Jesus is the fullness OF the Deity, not the Deity Himself. He has enough resemblances to his Father that he can be said to be filled with his Father's attributes. Like Father, like Son.

If you believe that the Father is Deity.
Jesus is Deity.
Would Jesus was wrong when He says, all that the Father has is mine? (John 16:15)

No, it doesn't follow that Jesus is Deity. Of course he wouldn't say that he would have the Father's own superiority. Jesus said many times that he relied on the Father for everything. The Father is clearly superior. He said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." Don't you believe Jesus' own words?

Yes, I believe Jesus own words that says, all that the Father has is mine, it includes as the one true God, the Almighty etc. (Rev 1:8)
Remember that to experience eternal life Christians mst know who really Jesus is. (John 17:3, 1John 5:20)
Is Jesus wrong when He said the John 16:15?

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is said to be, “The power of God, and the Wisdom of God."

Verse 22, "The LORD (the Father) possessed me (Wisdom) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." The verse declares the Wisdom, or the Word of God, Jesus Christ was the source of all the Father's work of creation. Compare this with John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (the Son of God), and the Word was with God (the Father), and the Word was God (the Creator.)"

Verse 23, He (the Son of God) was set up, meaning "He was anointed, or enthroned over all the works of creation. Psalms 2:6, "I (the Father) have set my king upon my holy hill of Zion."

You make excellent points, though you confuse them with the insistence that Jesus is God, from John 1:1. Anyway, what you have said shows that you believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two different Beings, and Jehovah calls the shots. That is clear from what you've posted here. That is in agreement with what JWs believe.

In a discussion with a friend, they asked me, "What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" and what is better the whole, or the full?"

I told him, "Let’s begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ’s) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

You just showed what being filled with the fullness of God really means. It is not that Christ is fully God, because the verse above says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God. Does that make him equal to God?

Christ is the fulness, as in divine perfections, and in the full measure of the Father's divine perfections. When we are in Christ, we are under the glory and fulness, that is in Christ.

Colossians 2:8, Paul wrote, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Then he writes, "For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This one Greek word Godhead is used only once in the N.T. And in Colossians 2:8, t means, the divine nature and perfections of the Father are in Christ. Another thing we must consider. Paul does not use Jesus' proper name, but his title as the Christ or Messiah. We are in the fulness of his authority as our King, Prophet, and High Priest.

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I might add that the word "Godhead" is not used by all translators, and is unique to the KJV, which other translators emulate. If these versions were translated from the original words, that word would not be part of it. For example:

1) The New Testament in English by Sheed and Ward, 1944, Msgr Knox, newly translated from the Vulgate Latin at the request of their lordships, the Archbishops and Bishops of England and Wales. "In Christ the whole plenitude of Deity is embodied, and dwells in him...." There is no "Godhead" in this translation approved by the "Lordships" of England and Wales.

2) The New American Standard Bible: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." No "Godhead."

3) The New American Bible: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily." No "Godhead."

4) The Revised Standard Version: "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." No "Godhead."

5) The New International Version: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." No "Godhead."

6) 21st Century New Testament: "Remember that he fully embodies divine authority and power." No "Godhead."

7) The Bible in Living English: In him all the fullness of deity is resident in bodily form." No "Godhead."

8) James Moffatt Translation: "It is in Christ that the entire fullness of deity has settled bodily." No "Godhead."

9) The Jerusalem Bible: "In his body lives the fullness of divinity." No "Godhead."

10) The New Jerusalem Bible: "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness." No "Godhead."

I could go on. "Godhead" is not the absolutely correct word in this verse, according to many versions. "Godhead" implies that there are three heads to God, and that is not what the verse is implying. It mentions Christ and God, and how "Christ in his human incarnation [bodily] has fully revealed the moral nature and the loving heart of God, and by his spiritual presence imparts power to live a life of moral rectitude in loving obedience toward God." (See The Interpreter's Bible, Vol.II, Abingdon.)

Yes, some translations used "deity" even the original Greek "deity"i s "theotes" Bible lexicon defined it as the state of being God.


Col 2:9 For   in  him  dwells   all   the   fullness   of the   deity  bodily. 

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

Col 2:9 οτι G3754  εν G1722  αυτω G1473  κατοικει G2730  παν G3956  το G3588  πληρωμα G4138  της G3588  θεοτητος G2320  σωματικως 

Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς

G2320 (Thayer)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Jesus is the fullness OF the Deity, not the Deity Himself. He has enough resemblances to his Father that he can be said to be filled with his Father's attributes. Like Father, like Son.

If you believe that the Father is Deity.
Jesus is Deity.
Would Jesus was wrong when He says, all that the Father has is mine? (John 16:15)

No, it doesn't follow that Jesus is Deity. Of course he wouldn't say that he would have the Father's own superiority. Jesus said many times that he relied on the Father for everything. The Father is clearly superior. He said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." Don't you believe Jesus' own words?

Onewithhim, read your article, you do make several good points. But!
In my library, I use about 30 books when doing any research on the scriptures, most predate 1850. I have been using them for the past 40 years and trust them completely. They are Concordances, Greek and Hebrew lexicons, history etc. I also have an 1861 Webster’s dictionary. What Webster does when giving the meaning of any word from the Bible, is he uses scripture verses to help define words. You cannot find that in modern dictionaries.

So, what’s the difference between the words Godhead, Divinity, Deity, and Divine?
First of all, Divinity and Deity are not in my concordance or in the Bible. Following is the definition of Godhead in my Thayers, and in my 1836 Greek to English Lexicon. Both agree on the meaning of “Godhead.”

Godhead: “Deity, Godhead, the divine nature and perfection, the state of being God.” The definition is clear, simple, and easy to understand, there can be no misunderstanding.

Word 2.
Divinity: For this, because it is not in any concordance, I have to go to Webster for a definition: It gives the reader 6 choices.
1. The state of being divine; Deity; Godhead; the nature or essence of God. Christians ascribe divinity to one Supreme being only.
2. God; the Deity; the Supreme Being.
3. 3. A false god; a pretended deity of pagans.
4. 4. A celestial being, inferior to the Supreme god, but superior to man. Many nations believe in these inferior divinities. The Witnesses would use # 4 to define Jesus.
5. Something supernatural
6. The science of divine things, the science which unfolds the character of God, his laws, and moral government, the duties of man, and the way of salvation; theology; as the study of divinity; a system of divinity.
So. Webster gives the reader 6 choices.

Word 3.
Deity:
1. Godhead; divinity; the nature and essence of the Supreme being; as the deity of the Supreme being is manifest in his works.
2. God; the Supreme being, or infinite self-existing Spirit.
3. A fabulous god or goddess; a superior being, supposed, by the Gentiles to exist, and to preside over particular departments of nature; as, Jupiter, Juno, Apollo, Diana, etc.
4. The supposed divinity or divine qualities of a pagan god.”

Word 4.
Divine, is found in the Bible in only three verses. Hebrews 9:1, and 2 Peter 1:3-4.
1. Pertaining to God, neuter, the divine nature, divinity. The divine nature in 1 Peter 1:3-4, “Belongs to both the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
Divine is the word the Jehovah’s Witnesses have used in Colossians 2:9, “because it is in him (Jesus) that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.” They use the phrase, “divine quality” whatever that means.

[placebofactor]

Capstone, where are you from? I live in Tuscaloosa Alabama.

[onewithhim]

You make excellent points, though you confuse them with the insistence that Jesus is God, from John 1:1. Anyway, what you have said shows that you believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two different Beings, and Jehovah calls the shots. That is clear from what you've posted here. That is in agreement with what JWs believe.

In a discussion with a friend, they asked me, "What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" and what is better the whole, or the full?"

I told him, "Let’s begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ’s) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

You just showed what being filled with the fullness of God really means. It is not that Christ is fully God, because the verse above says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God. Does that make him equal to God?

Christ is the fulness, as in divine perfections, and in the full measure of the Father's divine perfections. When we are in Christ, we are under the glory and fulness, that is in Christ.

Colossians 2:8, Paul wrote, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Then he writes, "For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This one Greek word Godhead is used only once in the N.T. And in Colossians 2:8, t means, the divine nature and perfections of the Father are in Christ. Another thing we must consider. Paul does not use Jesus' proper name, but his title as the Christ or Messiah. We are in the fulness of his authority as our King, Prophet, and High Priest.

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I might add that the word "Godhead" is not used by all translators, and is unique to the KJV, which other translators emulate. If these versions were translated from the original words, that word would not be part of it. For example:

1) The New Testament in English by Sheed and Ward, 1944, Msgr Knox, newly translated from the Vulgate Latin at the request of their lordships, the Archbishops and Bishops of England and Wales. "In Christ the whole plenitude of Deity is embodied, and dwells in him...." There is no "Godhead" in this translation approved by the "Lordships" of England and Wales.

2) The New American Standard Bible: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." No "Godhead."

3) The New American Bible: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily." No "Godhead."

4) The Revised Standard Version: "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." No "Godhead."

5) The New International Version: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." No "Godhead."

6) 21st Century New Testament: "Remember that he fully embodies divine authority and power." No "Godhead."

7) The Bible in Living English: In him all the fullness of deity is resident in bodily form." No "Godhead."

8) James Moffatt Translation: "It is in Christ that the entire fullness of deity has settled bodily." No "Godhead."

9) The Jerusalem Bible: "In his body lives the fullness of divinity." No "Godhead."

10) The New Jerusalem Bible: "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness." No "Godhead."

I could go on. "Godhead" is not the absolutely correct word in this verse, according to many versions. "Godhead" implies that there are three heads to God, and that is not what the verse is implying. It mentions Christ and God, and how "Christ in his human incarnation [bodily] has fully revealed the moral nature and the loving heart of God, and by his spiritual presence imparts power to live a life of moral rectitude in loving obedience toward God." (See The Interpreter's Bible, Vol.II, Abingdon.)

Yes, some translations used "deity" even the original Greek "deity"i s "theotes" Bible lexicon defined it as the state of being God.


Col 2:9 For   in  him  dwells   all   the   fullness   of the   deity  bodily. 

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

Col 2:9 οτι G3754  εν G1722  αυτω G1473  κατοικει G2730  παν G3956  το G3588  πληρωμα G4138  της G3588  θεοτητος G2320  σωματικως 

Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς

G2320 (Thayer)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Jesus is the fullness OF the Deity, not the Deity Himself. He has enough resemblances to his Father that he can be said to be filled with his Father's attributes. Like Father, like Son.

If you believe that the Father is Deity.
Jesus is Deity.
Would Jesus was wrong when He says, all that the Father has is mine? (John 16:15)

No, it doesn't follow that Jesus is Deity. Of course he wouldn't say that he would have the Father's own superiority. Jesus said many times that he relied on the Father for everything. The Father is clearly superior. He said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." Don't you believe Jesus' own words?

Yes, I believe Jesus own words that says, all that the Father has is mine, it includes as the one true God, the Almighty etc. (Rev 1:8)
Remember that to experience eternal life Christians mst know who really Jesus is. (John 17:3, 1John 5:20)
Is Jesus wrong when He said the John 16:15?

Jesus would not say that he is equal to the Father. That is not what he meant. The Father gave him all things, with the exception, of course, of the Father's position in the universe. That is to be understood. You apparently do not believe Jesus when he says that the Father alone is the one true God (John 17:3). Yes, we must know who Jesus really is, and you must start listening to ALL that he says, not just a verse here and there. Jehovah, the Father, is even called by Jesus "my God." (John 20:17) The Father alone is God, and even the God of Jesus. Why don't you recognize Revelation 3:12 where Jesus again indicates that he has a God? He said:

"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God...and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my new name." (Revelation 3:12, NASB)

The Scripture says that Jesus is the same at all times, in the past, now, and in the future. (Hebrew 13:8) That means that he believed what he said at John 14:28---"the Father is greater than I am." That goes for all time, even when he ascended back to heaven after his resurrection. The Apostle Paul said clearly as well, "the head of the Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3) Jesus always recognized that the Father alone is God and superior even to himself. We must accept this if we are to stay in God's favor.

[Capbook]

In a discussion with a friend, they asked me, "What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" and what is better the whole, or the full?"

I told him, "Let’s begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ’s) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

You just showed what being filled with the fullness of God really means. It is not that Christ is fully God, because the verse above says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God. Does that make him equal to God?

Christ is the fulness, as in divine perfections, and in the full measure of the Father's divine perfections. When we are in Christ, we are under the glory and fulness, that is in Christ.

Colossians 2:8, Paul wrote, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Then he writes, "For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This one Greek word Godhead is used only once in the N.T. And in Colossians 2:8, t means, the divine nature and perfections of the Father are in Christ. Another thing we must consider. Paul does not use Jesus' proper name, but his title as the Christ or Messiah. We are in the fulness of his authority as our King, Prophet, and High Priest.

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fulness of God."

I might add that the word "Godhead" is not used by all translators, and is unique to the KJV, which other translators emulate. If these versions were translated from the original words, that word would not be part of it. For example:

1) The New Testament in English by Sheed and Ward, 1944, Msgr Knox, newly translated from the Vulgate Latin at the request of their lordships, the Archbishops and Bishops of England and Wales. "In Christ the whole plenitude of Deity is embodied, and dwells in him...." There is no "Godhead" in this translation approved by the "Lordships" of England and Wales.

2) The New American Standard Bible: "For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." No "Godhead."

3) The New American Bible: "For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily." No "Godhead."

4) The Revised Standard Version: "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." No "Godhead."

5) The New International Version: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." No "Godhead."

6) 21st Century New Testament: "Remember that he fully embodies divine authority and power." No "Godhead."

7) The Bible in Living English: In him all the fullness of deity is resident in bodily form." No "Godhead."

8) James Moffatt Translation: "It is in Christ that the entire fullness of deity has settled bodily." No "Godhead."

9) The Jerusalem Bible: "In his body lives the fullness of divinity." No "Godhead."

10) The New Jerusalem Bible: "In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness." No "Godhead."

I could go on. "Godhead" is not the absolutely correct word in this verse, according to many versions. "Godhead" implies that there are three heads to God, and that is not what the verse is implying. It mentions Christ and God, and how "Christ in his human incarnation [bodily] has fully revealed the moral nature and the loving heart of God, and by his spiritual presence imparts power to live a life of moral rectitude in loving obedience toward God." (See The Interpreter's Bible, Vol.II, Abingdon.)

Yes, some translations used "deity" even the original Greek "deity"i s "theotes" Bible lexicon defined it as the state of being God.


Col 2:9 For   in  him  dwells   all   the   fullness   of the   deity  bodily. 

Col 2:9 For G3754  in G1722  him G1473  dwells G2730  all G3956  the G3588  fullness G4138  of the G3588  deity G2320  bodily. G4985 

Col 2:9 οτι G3754  εν G1722  αυτω G1473  κατοικει G2730  παν G3956  το G3588  πληρωμα G4138  της G3588  θεοτητος G2320  σωματικως 

Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς

G2320 (Thayer)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead

Jesus is the fullness OF the Deity, not the Deity Himself. He has enough resemblances to his Father that he can be said to be filled with his Father's attributes. Like Father, like Son.

If you believe that the Father is Deity.
Jesus is Deity.
Would Jesus was wrong when He says, all that the Father has is mine? (John 16:15)

No, it doesn't follow that Jesus is Deity. Of course he wouldn't say that he would have the Father's own superiority. Jesus said many times that he relied on the Father for everything. The Father is clearly superior. He said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." Don't you believe Jesus' own words?

Yes, I believe Jesus own words that says, all that the Father has is mine, it includes as the one true God, the Almighty etc. (Rev 1:8)
Remember that to experience eternal life Christians mst know who really Jesus is. (John 17:3, 1John 5:20)
Is Jesus wrong when He said the John 16:15?

Jesus would not say that he is equal to the Father. That is not what he meant. The Father gave him all things, with the exception, of course, of the Father's position in the universe. That is to be understood. You apparently do not believe Jesus when he says that the Father alone is the one true God (John 17:3). Yes, we must know who Jesus really is, and you must start listening to ALL that he says, not just a verse here and there. Jehovah, the Father, is even called by Jesus "my God." (John 20:17) The Father alone is God, and even the God of Jesus. Why don't you recognize Revelation 3:12 where Jesus again indicates that he has a God? He said:

"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God...and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my new name." (Revelation 3:12, NASB)

The Scripture says that Jesus is the same at all times, in the past, now, and in the future. (Hebrew 13:8) That means that he believed what he said at John 14:28---"the Father is greater than I am." That goes for all time, even when he ascended back to heaven after his resurrection. The Apostle Paul said clearly as well, "the head of the Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3) Jesus always recognized that the Father alone is God and superior even to himself. We must accept this if we are to stay in God's favor.

Yes, the Father is greater, higher in rank or position than Jesus but that does not mean that Jesus is not in the state of being God.
Just like you and your son, you rank high etc as a mother but you are the same in the state of being human.
Jesus called the Father my God, as He humbled himself to the likeness of men and obedient to the Father even on the cross.
You always quote the words of Jesus, how about the words of the Father, that calls Jesus as God? Just ignore them?
How about the Almighty Father called himself as the first and the last whom referred Jesus.
Also Jesus said, all that the Father has is mine. Means equality in simple mathematics.
That is interpreting Bible text by Bible text, not insert some words in the Bible just to suit the Arian's belief.
Always remember in order to experience eternal life we have to know who Jesus really is. (John 17:3, 1 John 5:20)