My, God, my God, why?

[placebofactor]

The following will likely open a can of worms. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but understood by the authority of the Holy Spirit. Before you answer, consider all the details that led up to this moment.

It concerns Matthew 27:46. We find Jesus hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of Jews, Gentiles, and religious leaders who hated him. These were people he taught, healed, and fed. Before he died, he made two statements. The first,

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” The word forsaken means to abandon completely, to turn one’s back on someone, and walk away.

His last words are found in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.” Then his spirit left him.

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

[Capbook]

The following will likely open a can of worms. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but understood by the authority of the Holy Spirit. Before you answer, consider all the details that led up to this moment.

It concerns Matthew 27:46. We find Jesus hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of Jews, Gentiles, and religious leaders who hated him. These were people he taught, healed, and fed. Before he died, he made two statements. The first,

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” The word forsaken means to abandon completely, to turn one’s back on someone, and walk away.

His last words are found in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.” Then his spirit left him.

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

When he said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" he was speaking to his Father, God. In the amount of pain that he was in---almost unbearable---you can understand that he might have said anything in his agonizing. As he suffered in agony he could have felt that he was totally abandoned, for the moment. And he was, for just that small time period, so that he could die and fulfill the will of God.

So, what you're saying is he was out of his mind with pain. Hmmm! Before he said My God, My God, Jesus saw John with his mother and said, "Woman behold they son! then said, Behold thy mother!

Then he said, "I thirst." He looks at the man on the cross next to him and says, "Today shall you be with me in paradise." He then looked down at the crowd and said, "My God, My God." then coherently said, "Father into thy hands I commend my spirit:" None of his words sounded to me like a man out of his mind with pain. Every word he spoke had a definite meaning and direction. He was aware of his needs (thirst) and understood the request of the thief, then answered him.

Matthew said, "He yielded up the ghost." Jesus' soul separated from his body, his body was to be buried in a tomb, and his spirit went to be with his Father. The resurrection brought the two together and Jesus became a living soul, incorruptible and immortal, the first born of the dead.

I imagine Jesus was almost out of his mind with pain, but you are right that he was cognizant of his mother and John there, etc . But why would he say to his Father "why have you forsaken me"? That's up for continued debate, if anyone else wants to share their thoughts on the subject.

You say that Jesus' soul "separated from his body." How can that be when Jesus IS a soul, he doesn't HAVE one. Adam was made "a living soul," he wasn't given one. A soul is the complete human or animal. Yes, animals are also souls. Do some research or ask your relatives what souls are. It's not something that separates from your body, because the soul is YOU. There are alive souls and dead souls. Now, the spirit is simply God's force that keeps people and animals alive. When someone dies, the spirit returns to God in the sense that He has withdrawn his Spirit from the individual so that the individual dies.

"For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other, yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20 KJV)

And Jesus couldn't have said that the thief would be in Paradise with him that day. Jesus was dead for three days and after that was resurrected and appeared to his disciples. Then another 40 days or so he appeared to many. He actually said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise." The comma means alot.

I don't believe that Jesus was out of His mind and say anything in His agony.
When Jesus said, My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me, Jesus was separated from the Father's protection when He drink the cup. The cup that Jesus asked to pass was the full force of the wrath of God the Father toward sin. As He became sin for us. (2 Cor 5:21)
This cup that Jesus was to drink would cause His human nature to be tortured and die and a separation from His Father temporarily.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

[otseng]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #10]

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[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #10]

Moderator Comment

Again, please read and abide by the rules. Also note:

16. Appeals, challenges, or any response to comments/warnings made by moderators should not be made in public. The proper channel is to send a PM to a moderator and to discuss it directly and in private.

Please review the Rules.



______________



Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

Sorry!

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't believe that Jesus was out of His mind and say anything in His agony.

Yes Jesus was to the end in control of his mental capacities (which is one reason no doubt he refused the drugged wine) but that's not to say he wasn't also under extreme mental, emotional and physical torment. His death cry was just that, a cry, which was no less authentic for having been recorded beforehand.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

[placebofactor]

I don't believe that Jesus was out of His mind and say anything in His agony.

Yes Jesus was to the end in control of his mental capacities (which is one reason no doubt he refused the drugged wine) but that's not to say he wasn't also under extreme mental, emotional and physical torment. His death cry was just that, a cry, which was no less authentic for having been recorded beforehand.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

Are you a mental health professional, or medical doctor who studies physical pain?

I do not have any problem with a Jehovah's Witness believing Jesus was speaking to his Father. Why? Because you do not think Jesus is God, it's that simple. But for those of us who understand Jesus is God, for him to be speaking to his Father would be impossible. Why? For many reasons.
The Father sent his Son.

Jesus came of his own free will.

He knew he was the perfect sacrifice.

Jesus knew long before his death that the cross was in his future.

My Bible tells me Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. God can never not be God, not even for a mano-second.

John 10:17-18, Jesus said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Jesus knew he would be raised from the grave.

He knew he would descend into hell to "Lead captivity captive."

He knew he would return to his place in heaven.

When Jesus said, "My God my God, why have you forsaken me?" The religious elite, the Pharisees, Scribes, Sadducees, and people were standing beneath him. When he quoted Psalms 22, they now understood who he was because Psalms 22 was fulfilled. The priest of the Temple knew David's prophesy well. The High Priest Caiaphas knew who Jesus was, six days before the cross when he said,

John 11:50-51, "Consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spoke he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation." He spoke these words six days before the cross."

Verse 52, "And not for the nation (Israel) only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad." Jesus sole purpose for coming to us in the form of a man, as a Saviour, and Redeemer, was, Matthew 15:24, Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees and his disciples, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Luke 15:6, Jesus is speaking to the publicans, Pharisees, and scribes telling them, "Rejoice with me: for I have found my sheep which was lost."

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't believe that Jesus was out of His mind and say anything in His agony.

Yes Jesus was to the end in control of his mental capacities (which is one reason no doubt he refused the drugged wine) but that's not to say he wasn't also under extreme mental, emotional and physical torment. His death cry was just that, a cry, which was no less authentic for having been recorded beforehand.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

....for him to be speaking to his Father would be impossible.

How does this address anything I wrote in my post? My point was that Jesus knew what he was saying. Are you challenging that? Or are you agreeing with that point ?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

He says, Himself, who He is speaking to:

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

Yes, this is prophecied, but so are many other things. Something prophecied is supposed to later come to pass (if indeed it is a true prophecy.)

He is speaking to His God and Father, the same person He spoke of at John 20:17.

**

He was in anguish and He felt that momentary doubt/fear of being forsaken (something many of us have felt at some time or another, and for much less suffering). But He had to know what that felt like so He could cover even that for us with His blood.

He never doubted that God existed. He only experienced that moment thinking He had been forsaken. Surely, this is something each of us should be able to understand.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[placebofactor]

Peace to you,

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

He says, Himself, who He is speaking to:

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

Yes, this is prophecied, but so are many other things. Something prophecied is supposed to later come to pass (if indeed it is a true prophecy.)

He is speaking to His God and Father, the same person He spoke of at John 20:17.

**

He was in anguish and He felt that momentary doubt/fear of being forsaken (something many of us have felt at some time or another, and for much less suffering). But He had to know what that felt like so He could cover even that for us with His blood.

He never doubted that God existed. He only experienced that moment thinking He had been forsaken. Surely, this is something each of us should be able to understand.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Common to all languages, especially here in America. If you ever help a person in need, and later on they betrayed you, or lie to you, the normal response would be, "My God, why did you do that?" Or "My God, why did you say that?"

When Jesus made that statement "My God, My God," the priests of the Temple knew the Psalms well. When he said that, they now understood who they had murdered. Also, by making that statement, Jesus fulfilled the O.T. prophecy in Psalms.

Let me leave you with this, if anyone does not believe Jesus is God, then I can understand why they would interpret the verse the way you have.

[onewithhim]

Peace to you,

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

He says, Himself, who He is speaking to:

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

Yes, this is prophecied, but so are many other things. Something prophecied is supposed to later come to pass (if indeed it is a true prophecy.)

He is speaking to His God and Father, the same person He spoke of at John 20:17.

**

He was in anguish and He felt that momentary doubt/fear of being forsaken (something many of us have felt at some time or another, and for much less suffering). But He had to know what that felt like so He could cover even that for us with His blood.

He never doubted that God existed. He only experienced that moment thinking He had been forsaken. Surely, this is something each of us should be able to understand.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Common to all languages, especially here in America. If you ever help a person in need, and later on they betrayed you, or lie to you, the normal response would be, "My God, why did you do that?" Or "My God, why did you say that?"

When Jesus made that statement "My God, My God," the priests of the Temple knew the Psalms well. When he said that, they now understood who they had murdered. Also, by making that statement, Jesus fulfilled the O.T. prophecy in Psalms.

Let me leave you with this, if anyone does not believe Jesus is God, then I can understand why they would interpret the verse the way you have.

There is no other way to interpret the verse. You yourself write a good post and then you ruin it all by saying "if anyone does not believe Jesus is God...(etc.)" There is nothing in these last posts that tries to address Jesus as God, so why do you bring it up? He's obviously NOT God, because God cannot die. If He can, then who would be there to resurrect Jesus? A dead man cannot raise himself.

[placebofactor]

Peace to you,

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

There appear to be two strikingly different statements coming from a dying man, a man who had just suffered the excruciating pain of the cross. Here’s the question: When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” was he speaking to his Father, or to those who were spitting on him, and mocking him? These were the same people he walked with for 3 ½ years, fed, healed, and showed many signs and wonders to.
Your thoughts.

He says, Himself, who He is speaking to:

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

Yes, this is prophecied, but so are many other things. Something prophecied is supposed to later come to pass (if indeed it is a true prophecy.)

He is speaking to His God and Father, the same person He spoke of at John 20:17.

Jesus was speaking to Mary in John 20:17. He was speaking of his Father, but not to him.


He was in anguish and He felt that momentary doubt/fear of being forsaken (something many of us have felt at some time or another, and for much less suffering). But He had to know what that felt like so He could cover even that for us with His blood.

He never doubted that God existed. He only experienced that moment thinking He had been forsaken. Surely, this is something each of us should be able to understand.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Common to all languages, especially here in America. If you ever help a person in need, and later on they betrayed you, or lied to you, the normal response would be, "My God, why did you do that?" Or "My God, why did you say that?"

When Jesus made that statement "My God, My God," the priests of the Temple knew the Psalms well. When he made that statement they now understood who they had murdered. Also, by making that statement, Jesus fulfilled the O.T. prophecy in Psalms.

Let me leave you with this, if anyone does not believe Jesus is God, then I can understand why they would interpret the verse the way you have.

There is no other way to interpret the verse. You yourself write a good post and then you ruin it all by saying "if anyone does not believe Jesus is God...(etc.)" There is nothing in these last posts that tries to address Jesus as God, so why do you bring it up? He's obviously NOT God, because God cannot die. If He can, then who would be there to resurrect Jesus? A dead man cannot raise himself.

Only the flesh that covered his real person, his spirit person died. His spirit descended to the "Lower parts of the earth," Ephesians 4:9.

Those who believe Jesus is God, our Creator, Savior, and Redeemer understand he never changes. To say the Father had forsaken him is saying God abandoned God, or he abandoned himself.

His Son is in ""The brightness of his Father's glory, and the expressed image of his Father's person, and He (Jesus) upholds all things by the word of his power." To uphold here in Hebrews 1:3, means to be in charge, to direct, to govern. Jesus was God manifest in the Flesh, K.J.B. 1 Timothy 3:16.

John 10:17-18, Jesus said concerning his death and resurrection, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again." Note the personal pronoun I. "No man takes it (his life) from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again." This was said before he went to the cross. Only God can make these statements and them make them happen.