Jesus is not an angel- hebrews 1

[Wootah]

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?

The whole of hebrews 1 makes it clear Jesus is not an angel.

Anyone disagree?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

Do you agree, as most people do, that Jesus was in the cloud and the column of fire that brought the Israelites out of Egypt? At Exodus 14:19 it says that "the angel of the true God who was going ahead of the camp of Israel departed and went to the rear and the pillar of cloud departed from their van and stood in the rear of them."

How does that answer hebrews 1?

It shows that Jesus is an angel. The archangel, in fact. How does Hebrews 1 conform to that? I think it refers to all the other angels, other than the higher angel--the archangel. (There is only one archangel mentioned in the Bible.)

Do the Bible says that Jacob (Israel) sinned when he prayed to an angel he addressed as God in verse 15?

Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

I don't see where Jacob prayed to an angel. Please explain.

Verse 15 he talked to God, adore of what God had done to him, if you pray does it mean you don't talk to God?
Verse 16 he mentioned the Angel that redeemed him from all evil, who do you think your Redeemer is?
Do the Bible says Jacob sinned when he consider his redeemer is the Angel?

If Jacob talked to God he was not praying to an angel. Jehovah is the "hearer of prayer," so when a faithful person prays, he is praying to Jehovah Himself.

And I have been saying that Jesus has represented Jehovah many times in the history of the ancients. So my Redeemer, Jesus, is an angel. He is the Archangel--the foremost of the angels.

[Wootah]

And now debate hebrews 1 and show that from hebrews 1. As per the topic.

[onewithhim]

And now debate hebrews 1 and show that from hebrews 1. As per the topic.

Hebrews 1:4,5 says that Jesus, by inheritance, "obtained a more excellent name than they." He was the first-born of creation which made him special, and he created everything with his Father's power. Superlatively special! He was not a regular angel. He was the highest of any angel--the Archangel. So when the verses mention angels, it is with the understanding that Jesus is the foremost, much higher than regular angels are, so he is in a category of his own.

[Wootah]

Can an angel be the exact representative of God?

v3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

V4-5s purpose is to show that in being (essence) and in name Jesus is greater than angels.

And therefore not an angel.

[Bible_Student]

When Trinitarians cite Hebrews 1:5-8 to argue that Jesus did not receive life from God, they often omit the full context of the passage.

First, they typically do not mention that Hebrews 1:8,9 directly quotes Psalm 45:6,7, originally referring to a human king. This implies that Bible translations rendering it as "you, O God" are altering the text's meaning to suggest Jesus is called God. If true, it would mean the human king originally addressed would also be called God, which is absurd.

Second, Hebrews 1:9, part of the immediate context, states that Jesus' God anointed him more than other kings. This clearly shows that Hebrews 1 does not suggest Jesus lacks a higher authority, as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 11:3, where God is the head of Jesus as much as Christ is the head of the congregation.

Third, they omit Hebrews 1:4, part of the context, which states Jesus "became" heir to a better name. This implies a transformation in authority, as he received greater authority upon his resurrection, "becoming" superior according to the name he received.

Fourth, they overlook the context of Hebrews 1:2, which says Jesus is an heir of God. An heir receives from the owner, indicating his position is not equal to the one who grants the inheritance. In Psalm 2:8, Jehovah tells Jesus to ask for something, which he would receive as an inheritance.

Fifth, Heb. 1:3 in the context explains that after purifying us from sins, Jesus sat beside the Majesty in heaven. It is evident that the Majesty is the one beside whom Jesus was seated. Jehovah is the one who seated Jesus next to him, as clearly stated in Psalm 110:1,2.

Are Trinitarians genuinely confused? Are they deliberately attempting to manipulate the Bible's words to fit a narrative it doesn't convey, thus evading the truth? Living in falsehood is untenable; those who spread lies about God and His Son are collaborating with the Devil to prevent people from achieving salvation (John 17:3).

[onewithhim]

Can an angel be the exact representative of God?

v3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

V4-5s purpose is to show that in being (essence) and in name Jesus is greater than angels.

And therefore not an angel.

Of course an angel of the highest rank, which is Jesus, can be the exact representative of God. Jesus is the Archangel, above everyone else in the universe, next to his Father.

[Wootah]

Can an angel be the exact representative of God?

v3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

V4-5s purpose is to show that in being (essence) and in name Jesus is greater than angels.

And therefore not an angel.

Of course an angel of the highest rank, which is Jesus, can be the exact representative of God. Jesus is the Archangel, above everyone else in the universe, next to his Father.

Can an angel be the exact image of God?

Think. Can a created thing be an exact image of God?

[onewithhim]

Can an angel be the exact representative of God?

v3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

V4-5s purpose is to show that in being (essence) and in name Jesus is greater than angels.

And therefore not an angel.

Of course an angel of the highest rank, which is Jesus, can be the exact representative of God. Jesus is the Archangel, above everyone else in the universe, next to his Father.

Can an angel be the exact image of God?

Think. Can a created thing be an exact image of God?

Yes, because Christ learned from God and did what God told him to do and say. (John 5:19; John 12:49,50) He is like any son who is in complete harmony with his father---"like father, like son" as the saying goes. Therefore Jesus is the image of his Father, as far as anyone could be an image of somebody. Of course Jesus would never be exactly like God in every way, because God is a vast Personage who fills the universe and knows every star by name. God knows things that Jesus does not. (And Col.1:15 says that he is "the image of the invisible God," not the exact image.)

[Capbook]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

Do you agree, as most people do, that Jesus was in the cloud and the column of fire that brought the Israelites out of Egypt? At Exodus 14:19 it says that "the angel of the true God who was going ahead of the camp of Israel departed and went to the rear and the pillar of cloud departed from their van and stood in the rear of them."

How does that answer hebrews 1?

It shows that Jesus is an angel. The archangel, in fact. How does Hebrews 1 conform to that? I think it refers to all the other angels, other than the higher angel--the archangel. (There is only one archangel mentioned in the Bible.)

Do the Bible says that Jacob (Israel) sinned when he prayed to an angel he addressed as God in verse 15?

Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

I don't see where Jacob prayed to an angel. Please explain.

Verse 15 he talked to God, adore of what God had done to him, if you pray does it mean you don't talk to God?
Verse 16 he mentioned the Angel that redeemed him from all evil, who do you think your Redeemer is?
Do the Bible says Jacob sinned when he consider his redeemer is the Angel?

If Jacob talked to God he was not praying to an angel. Jehovah is the "hearer of prayer," so when a faithful person prays, he is praying to Jehovah Himself.

And I have been saying that Jesus has represented Jehovah many times in the history of the ancients. So my Redeemer, Jesus, is an angel. He is the Archangel--the foremost of the angels.

In verse 6 that Jacob said to an Angel as the one that redeemed him from all evil, do he sinned calling the Angel as Redeemer?
Is it the Redeemer Angel defeat Satan and his angels? (Rev 12:7-9)

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

Do you agree, as most people do, that Jesus was in the cloud and the column of fire that brought the Israelites out of Egypt? At Exodus 14:19 it says that "the angel of the true God who was going ahead of the camp of Israel departed and went to the rear and the pillar of cloud departed from their van and stood in the rear of them."

How does that answer hebrews 1?

It shows that Jesus is an angel. The archangel, in fact. How does Hebrews 1 conform to that? I think it refers to all the other angels, other than the higher angel--the archangel. (There is only one archangel mentioned in the Bible.)

Do the Bible says that Jacob (Israel) sinned when he prayed to an angel he addressed as God in verse 15?

Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

I don't see where Jacob prayed to an angel. Please explain.

Verse 15 he talked to God, adore of what God had done to him, if you pray does it mean you don't talk to God?
Verse 16 he mentioned the Angel that redeemed him from all evil, who do you think your Redeemer is?
Do the Bible says Jacob sinned when he consider his redeemer is the Angel?

If Jacob talked to God he was not praying to an angel. Jehovah is the "hearer of prayer," so when a faithful person prays, he is praying to Jehovah Himself.

And I have been saying that Jesus has represented Jehovah many times in the history of the ancients. So my Redeemer, Jesus, is an angel. He is the Archangel--the foremost of the angels.

In verse 6 that Jacob said to an Angel as the one that redeemed him from all evil, do he sinned calling the Angel as Redeemer?
Is it the Redeemer Angel defeat Satan and his angels? (Rev 12:7-9)

The angel was representing Jehovah. When Jacob spoke, it was as if he was speaking to Jehovah.
The Redeemer angel---the Archangel---did defeat Satan and his angels. His name in heaven is Michael. Who else deserves the position that Michael holds at Daniel 12:1,2 than Jesus himself?