Clarifying questions for JW's

[Revelations won]

I have a few clarifying question for JW's as follows.

1. Do you claim that Jesus the Christ is just a mortal being like us?

2. Do you claim that Jesus the Christd oes not now have a body of flesh and bones?

[Capbook]

Do you consider Jesus words not true?

Jesus words are true, I cant say the same about your interetation of them.

If your interpretation is true, where shall we start the counting of the three days that Jesus would raise the Church?

From his death of course, since Jesus is the head of the (new) temple /body. ( compare Matthew 28:19, 20)

EPHESIANS 1:22b, 23

...made him [Jesus] head over all things with regard to the congregation, which is his body, ...

Did the Church then exist after three days from Jesus death? Verse please.

[William]

A dead man cannot resurrect himself.


Yes, there are verses that the Father resurrect Jesus.
And there are verses that says the Spirit resurrect Jesus.



Are there verses that say that Jesus resurrected Jesus?

This proves you are incorrect.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

That is a massive claim which seems to relate to the temptation in the desert story - in that we now have Jesus claiming to have received those things that Satan had offered him if Jesus would worship Satan.

We could deduce from this, that what was Satan's was taken from Satan and given to Jesus.

This would mean that they who believe that Satan is the ruler of this world, do so by ignoring Jesus' claim.

Lean not to your own understanding. It is wrong for you.

If we take the Gospels as the primary source for understanding Jesus' claims, and prioritize His direct statements over interpretations found in the rest of the New Testament, then our exploration of Jesus' role in His resurrection and His authority requires careful examination of His words in those texts.

Key Points from the Gospels:
Jesus Foretells His Resurrection:

John 2:19-21: "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
Jesus is speaking directly about His role in His resurrection. If this claim is taken at face value, it supports the idea that Jesus had the power to resurrect Himself.
Matthew 16:21: "From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things... and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."
While Jesus does not specify who will raise Him here, the statement aligns with His foreknowledge and authority over the event.
Jesus’ Authority Over Life and Death:

John 10:17-18: "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."
This is one of the most explicit Gospel statements attributing Jesus' resurrection to His own authority.

Focus on the Father’s Will:
Matthew 26:39:
"My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
In moments like this, Jesus emphasizes His submission to the Father, which might suggest that the resurrection is ultimately under the Father’s will, even if Jesus is the agent.
Absence of Explicit Trinitarian Collaboration in the Gospels:

Unlike some epistles (e.g., Romans 8:11), the Gospels do not explicitly describe the Spirit or Father resurrecting Jesus, apart from Jesus’ allusions to His own authority and divined unity.

Evaluating Contradictions:
If we privilege Jesus’ direct claims in the Gospels:

Verses such as John 10:17-18 and John 2:19 suggest Jesus attributed resurrection power to Himself.
The Gospels do not explicitly contradict this by crediting the Father or Spirit; rather, they emphasize Jesus’ unique role and unity with the Father.
Any attribution to the Father or Spirit in the epistles could be read as complementary rather than contradictory, depending on theological perspective.

Jesus’ Authority in the Gospels:
Matthew 28:18: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."
Post-resurrection, Jesus claims comprehensive authority. If we take this as a continuation of His earthly ministry, it solidifies His control over life, death, and resurrection.

Implications for Satan’s Dominion:
Gospels’ View of Satan:
Satan tempts Jesus with the promise of worldly authority (Matthew 4:8-10).
Jesus rejects Satan’s offer, implicitly claiming that divined authority cannot be bought or bartered.

Post-Resurrection Authority:
Jesus’ resurrection and His claim in Matthew 28:18 imply that the authority Satan falsely claimed or wielded has been nullified.
This challenges any belief that Satan remains the uncontested "ruler of the world."
Conclusion:
If we adhere strictly to Jesus’ statements in the Gospels, there is strong evidence that Jesus credited Himself with the authority over His own resurrection. These claims, combined with His post-resurrection declaration of supreme authority, suggest that any interpretation portraying Jesus as powerless or dependent on others for His resurrection would not align with the Gospels' portrayal of His words. Furthermore, Jesus’ claim undermines the idea of Satan’s continued dominion, presenting Jesus as the ultimate authority post-resurrection.

1. Context of Ecclesiastes 9:5:
The statement reflects the perspective of life "under the sun," a common refrain in Ecclesiastes that describes the human experience without the revelation of eternity.
The writer (traditionally Solomon) observes the futility and uncertainty of life without explicit reference to resurrection or eternal consciousness.
This verse influenced beliefs about death in Jesus' time, including the Sadducean denial of resurrection (Mark 12:18).

2. Jesus’ Teachings on Death and Life:
Jesus provides insight into death and the afterlife that either directly or implicitly reinterprets Old Testament perspectives, offering a fuller picture.

Consciousness After Death:
Luke 16:19-31 (The Rich Man and Lazarus):

Jesus describes the rich man and Lazarus experiencing distinct conditions after death, implying consciousness.
While some see this as a parable, it still reflects Jesus’ acknowledgment of post-mortem awareness.
Luke 23:43 (The Thief on the Cross):

Jesus says to the thief, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
This statement suggests immediate consciousness after death for the righteous.
Jesus' Teaching on Resurrection and Eternal Life:
John 11:25-26 (Raising of Lazarus):

"I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die."
Jesus reveals a deeper understanding of life and death, pointing to eternal life beyond physical death.
Mark 12:26-27 (God of the Living):

Jesus refutes the Sadducees' denial of the resurrection, saying, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken."
By emphasizing that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive to God, Jesus confirms consciousness after death.

3. Old Testament Views Reframed by Jesus:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 vs. Jesus’ Teachings:
Jesus does not explicitly contradict Ecclesiastes but reinterprets its context. While Ecclesiastes emphasizes earthly futility, Jesus introduces hope and clarity about eternal life.
Daniel 12:2: The Old Testament hints at resurrection ("Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake..."), but Jesus expands on this idea with detailed teaching about eternal destinations.

4. Application to First-Century Beliefs:
In Jesus' time, there were divergent views about death:

Sadducees rejected resurrection and focused solely on earthly existence.
Pharisees believed in resurrection and some form of afterlife consciousness.
Common People were influenced by Old Testament texts like Ecclesiastes 9:5, leading to uncertainty.
By addressing these beliefs:

Jesus clarified the reality of resurrection and eternal life, affirming the Pharisaic view while correcting errors (e.g., Mark 12:18-27).
He reoriented believers toward a God-centered understanding of life and death.

5. Reconciling Old Testament and Gospel Perspectives:
Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels take precedence over Old Testament views because He is the "Word made flesh" (John 1:14), bringing the fullest revelation of God's truth.
Old Testament statements like Ecclesiastes 9:5 are not invalidated but contextualized as limited perspectives awaiting fulfillment in Christ.

6. Summary and Conclusion:
When we prioritize Jesus' words in the Gospels as the definitive teaching, it becomes clear that:

Death is not a state of unconscious oblivion but a transition into another state of existence—conscious for both the righteous and the unrighteous.
Jesus redefines death and life in terms of resurrection and eternal union with God, offering a fuller understanding than what Old Testament writers or contemporary Jewish sects held.
Thus, the "dead know nothing" of Ecclesiastes 9:5 must be understood in its earthly, pre-Christ context, while Jesus’ words reveal the eternal and conscious reality of the soul after death.



Modern day reports of NDE for the most part confirm (bear witness to) Jesus' revelations about what actually occurs which all said and done, replace Solomons understanding of it as written in Ecclesiastes. This equates to which "king" (world view) one chooses to follow (adhere).

1. Jesus as the New Authority on Life and Death
Ecclesiastes 9:5 reflects a worldview rooted in earthly limitations: "The dead know nothing."
Solomon, writing under divined inspiration, expresses the human condition as it appears "under the sun"—from a perspective not fully illuminated by the resurrection hope later revealed through Jesus.

Jesus, however, declares in John 11:25-26: "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die."
His authority provides a new and complete understanding of death, overturning Solomon's limited insight by revealing the conscious, eternal reality of the soul.
________________________________________
2. Modern Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)
• Many modern NDE accounts share recurring themes:
• A sensation of leaving the body and heightened awareness.
• Encounters with beings of light, often described as overwhelmingly loving.
• Experiences of judgment or review of one’s life.
• In some cases, encountering Jesus or a divined presence they identify as Him.
• These accounts align closely with Jesus' teachings in the Gospels:
• Consciousness after death: The soul is aware and often transitions to a new reality.
• Judgment and life review: Echoing Jesus’ warnings and teachings about accountability for our actions (e.g., Matthew 12:36, Luke 16:19-31).
• Union with God and eternal life: Reiterating Jesus’ promise of eternal fellowship for believers (John 14:2-3).
________________________________________
3. Choosing a King to Follow
The metaphor of choosing a "king" reflects the core spiritual decision every individual faces:
• Solomon’s View: Earthly wisdom acknowledges the apparent finality of death and the futility of life without divined revelation.
• Jesus’ View: Eternal wisdom illuminates life beyond death, emphasizing resurrection, conscious awareness, and ultimate union with God.
To follow Solomon’s perspective alone would mean embracing a limited, material understanding of death. To follow Jesus is to trust in His revelation of an eternal, conscious reality where death is not the end but a transition.
________________________________________
4. Implications for Faith
• The choice of "king" shapes not only one’s understanding of death but also how one lives.
• Jesus’ revelation about life after death:
• Offers hope and purpose.
• Encourages a life of love, service, and accountability.
• Solomon’s perspective:
• While valuable in its acknowledgment of life’s brevity, it may lead to despair or resignation without the hope of resurrection.
________________________________________
5. Conclusion: Witness and Faith
The harmony between Jesus’ teachings and the patterns observed in NDEs serves as a form of witness, affirming His revelations about life, death, and eternity. The choice between Solomon’s limited understanding and Jesus’ transcendent truth boils down to a matter of world view —choosing which "king" to follow.
Those who align with Jesus’ teachings embrace the eternal perspective, finding comfort, hope, and purpose in His worldview of life beyond death.

[slowrider]

A dead man cannot resurrect himself.


Yes, there are verses that the Father resurrect Jesus.
And there are verses that says the Spirit resurrect Jesus.



Are there verses that say that Jesus resurrected Jesus?

This proves you are incorrect.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

That is a massive claim which seems to relate to the temptation in the desert story - in that we now have Jesus claiming to have received those things that Satan had offered him if Jesus would worship Satan.

We could deduce from this, that what was Satan's was taken from Satan and given to Jesus.

This would mean that they who believe that Satan is the ruler of this world, do so by ignoring Jesus' claim.

Lean not to your own understanding. It is wrong for you.

If we take the Gospels as the primary source for understanding Jesus' claims, and prioritize His direct statements over interpretations found in the rest of the New Testament, then our exploration of Jesus' role in His resurrection and His authority requires careful examination of His words in those texts.

Key Points from the Gospels:
Jesus Foretells His Resurrection:

John 2:19-21: "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
Jesus is speaking directly about His role in His resurrection. If this claim is taken at face value, it supports the idea that Jesus had the power to resurrect Himself.
Matthew 16:21: "From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things... and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."
While Jesus does not specify who will raise Him here, the statement aligns with His foreknowledge and authority over the event.
Jesus’ Authority Over Life and Death:

John 10:17-18: "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."
This is one of the most explicit Gospel statements attributing Jesus' resurrection to His own authority.

Focus on the Father’s Will:
Matthew 26:39:
"My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
In moments like this, Jesus emphasizes His submission to the Father, which might suggest that the resurrection is ultimately under the Father’s will, even if Jesus is the agent.
Absence of Explicit Trinitarian Collaboration in the Gospels:

Unlike some epistles (e.g., Romans 8:11), the Gospels do not explicitly describe the Spirit or Father resurrecting Jesus, apart from Jesus’ allusions to His own authority and divined unity.

Evaluating Contradictions:
If we privilege Jesus’ direct claims in the Gospels:

Verses such as John 10:17-18 and John 2:19 suggest Jesus attributed resurrection power to Himself.
The Gospels do not explicitly contradict this by crediting the Father or Spirit; rather, they emphasize Jesus’ unique role and unity with the Father.
Any attribution to the Father or Spirit in the epistles could be read as complementary rather than contradictory, depending on theological perspective.

Jesus’ Authority in the Gospels:
Matthew 28:18: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."
Post-resurrection, Jesus claims comprehensive authority. If we take this as a continuation of His earthly ministry, it solidifies His control over life, death, and resurrection.

Implications for Satan’s Dominion:
Gospels’ View of Satan:
Satan tempts Jesus with the promise of worldly authority (Matthew 4:8-10).
Jesus rejects Satan’s offer, implicitly claiming that divined authority cannot be bought or bartered.

Post-Resurrection Authority:
Jesus’ resurrection and His claim in Matthew 28:18 imply that the authority Satan falsely claimed or wielded has been nullified.
This challenges any belief that Satan remains the uncontested "ruler of the world."
Conclusion:
If we adhere strictly to Jesus’ statements in the Gospels, there is strong evidence that Jesus credited Himself with the authority over His own resurrection. These claims, combined with His post-resurrection declaration of supreme authority, suggest that any interpretation portraying Jesus as powerless or dependent on others for His resurrection would not align with the Gospels' portrayal of His words. Furthermore, Jesus’ claim undermines the idea of Satan’s continued dominion, presenting Jesus as the ultimate authority post-resurrection.

1. Context of Ecclesiastes 9:5:
The statement reflects the perspective of life "under the sun," a common refrain in Ecclesiastes that describes the human experience without the revelation of eternity.
The writer (traditionally Solomon) observes the futility and uncertainty of life without explicit reference to resurrection or eternal consciousness.
This verse influenced beliefs about death in Jesus' time, including the Sadducean denial of resurrection (Mark 12:18).

2. Jesus’ Teachings on Death and Life:
Jesus provides insight into death and the afterlife that either directly or implicitly reinterprets Old Testament perspectives, offering a fuller picture.

Consciousness After Death:
Luke 16:19-31 (The Rich Man and Lazarus):

Jesus describes the rich man and Lazarus experiencing distinct conditions after death, implying consciousness.
While some see this as a parable, it still reflects Jesus’ acknowledgment of post-mortem awareness.
Luke 23:43 (The Thief on the Cross):

Jesus says to the thief, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
This statement suggests immediate consciousness after death for the righteous.
Jesus' Teaching on Resurrection and Eternal Life:
John 11:25-26 (Raising of Lazarus):

"I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die."
Jesus reveals a deeper understanding of life and death, pointing to eternal life beyond physical death.
Mark 12:26-27 (God of the Living):

Jesus refutes the Sadducees' denial of the resurrection, saying, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken."
By emphasizing that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive to God, Jesus confirms consciousness after death.

3. Old Testament Views Reframed by Jesus:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 vs. Jesus’ Teachings:
Jesus does not explicitly contradict Ecclesiastes but reinterprets its context. While Ecclesiastes emphasizes earthly futility, Jesus introduces hope and clarity about eternal life.
Daniel 12:2: The Old Testament hints at resurrection ("Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake..."), but Jesus expands on this idea with detailed teaching about eternal destinations.

4. Application to First-Century Beliefs:
In Jesus' time, there were divergent views about death:

Sadducees rejected resurrection and focused solely on earthly existence.
Pharisees believed in resurrection and some form of afterlife consciousness.
Common People were influenced by Old Testament texts like Ecclesiastes 9:5, leading to uncertainty.
By addressing these beliefs:

Jesus clarified the reality of resurrection and eternal life, affirming the Pharisaic view while correcting errors (e.g., Mark 12:18-27).
He reoriented believers toward a God-centered understanding of life and death.

5. Reconciling Old Testament and Gospel Perspectives:
Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels take precedence over Old Testament views because He is the "Word made flesh" (John 1:14), bringing the fullest revelation of God's truth.
Old Testament statements like Ecclesiastes 9:5 are not invalidated but contextualized as limited perspectives awaiting fulfillment in Christ.

6. Summary and Conclusion:
When we prioritize Jesus' words in the Gospels as the definitive teaching, it becomes clear that:

Death is not a state of unconscious oblivion but a transition into another state of existence—conscious for both the righteous and the unrighteous.
Jesus redefines death and life in terms of resurrection and eternal union with God, offering a fuller understanding than what Old Testament writers or contemporary Jewish sects held.
Thus, the "dead know nothing" of Ecclesiastes 9:5 must be understood in its earthly, pre-Christ context, while Jesus’ words reveal the eternal and conscious reality of the soul after death.



Modern day reports of NDE for the most part confirm (bear witness to) Jesus' revelations about what actually occurs which all said and done, replace Solomons understanding of it as written in Ecclesiastes. This equates to which "king" (world view) one chooses to follow (adhere).

1. Jesus as the New Authority on Life and Death
Ecclesiastes 9:5 reflects a worldview rooted in earthly limitations: "The dead know nothing."
Solomon, writing under divined inspiration, expresses the human condition as it appears "under the sun"—from a perspective not fully illuminated by the resurrection hope later revealed through Jesus.

Jesus, however, declares in John 11:25-26: "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die."
His authority provides a new and complete understanding of death, overturning Solomon's limited insight by revealing the conscious, eternal reality of the soul.
________________________________________
2. Modern Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)
• Many modern NDE accounts share recurring themes:
• A sensation of leaving the body and heightened awareness.
• Encounters with beings of light, often described as overwhelmingly loving.
• Experiences of judgment or review of one’s life.
• In some cases, encountering Jesus or a divined presence they identify as Him.
• These accounts align closely with Jesus' teachings in the Gospels:
• Consciousness after death: The soul is aware and often transitions to a new reality.
• Judgment and life review: Echoing Jesus’ warnings and teachings about accountability for our actions (e.g., Matthew 12:36, Luke 16:19-31).
• Union with God and eternal life: Reiterating Jesus’ promise of eternal fellowship for believers (John 14:2-3).
________________________________________
3. Choosing a King to Follow
The metaphor of choosing a "king" reflects the core spiritual decision every individual faces:
• Solomon’s View: Earthly wisdom acknowledges the apparent finality of death and the futility of life without divined revelation.
• Jesus’ View: Eternal wisdom illuminates life beyond death, emphasizing resurrection, conscious awareness, and ultimate union with God.
To follow Solomon’s perspective alone would mean embracing a limited, material understanding of death. To follow Jesus is to trust in His revelation of an eternal, conscious reality where death is not the end but a transition.
________________________________________
4. Implications for Faith
• The choice of "king" shapes not only one’s understanding of death but also how one lives.
• Jesus’ revelation about life after death:
• Offers hope and purpose.
• Encourages a life of love, service, and accountability.
• Solomon’s perspective:
• While valuable in its acknowledgment of life’s brevity, it may lead to despair or resignation without the hope of resurrection.
________________________________________
5. Conclusion: Witness and Faith
The harmony between Jesus’ teachings and the patterns observed in NDEs serves as a form of witness, affirming His revelations about life, death, and eternity. The choice between Solomon’s limited understanding and Jesus’ transcendent truth boils down to a matter of world view —choosing which "king" to follow.
Those who align with Jesus’ teachings embrace the eternal perspective, finding comfort, hope, and purpose in His worldview of life beyond death.

Lean not to your own understanding. It is wrong for you.

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

It appears that you are directly denying the resurrected Christ’s clear witness and testimony that he indeed had a resurrected body of flesh and bones as he clearly stated:

Luke 24: 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I find it amazing that you can see that Christ created the heavens and the earth and has ALL power in heaven and earth, can command the elements and they obey, can change water to wine, etc.

But with your man made finite conclusions you without evidence assume that he who has all power on earth and in heaven is woefully impotent to control the elements allowing him to pass through a door or wall????

Come now, do you think I should accept your “private interpretation” over the clear witness and testimony of the risen Lord of Lords as found in Luke 24:39 ???

[JehovahsWitness]

Did the Church then exist after three days from Jesus death? Verse please.

Yes, in a prophetic* sence since the head represents the body.

VERSE =>

1 CORINTHIANS 12:21, 25

, the head cannot say to the feet, “I do not need you.” ... there should be no division in the body, but its members should have mutual concern for one another.+ ...27 Now you are Christ’s body,+ and each of you individually is a member.+

* NB Both Ezekiel and Jeremiah speak of Prophets achieving what in reality God (YHWH) the Father accomplished. They did it in a prophetc sence by announcing the event : VERSES => Ezekiel 43:3, Jeremiah 1:10.

[William]

If we take the Gospels as the primary source for understanding Jesus' claims, and prioritize His direct statements over interpretations found in the rest of the New Testament, then our exploration of Jesus' role in His resurrection and His authority requires careful examination of His words in those texts.

Key Points from the Gospels:
Jesus Foretells His Resurrection:

John 2:19-21: "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
Jesus is speaking directly about His role in His resurrection. If this claim is taken at face value, it supports the idea that Jesus had the power to resurrect Himself.
Matthew 16:21: "From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things... and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."
While Jesus does not specify who will raise Him here, the statement aligns with His foreknowledge and authority over the event.
Jesus’ Authority Over Life and Death:

John 10:17-18: "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."
This is one of the most explicit Gospel statements attributing Jesus' resurrection to His own authority.

Focus on the Father’s Will:
Matthew 26:39:
"My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
In moments like this, Jesus emphasizes His submission to the Father, which might suggest that the resurrection is ultimately under the Father’s will, even if Jesus is the agent.
Absence of Explicit Trinitarian Collaboration in the Gospels:

Unlike some epistles (e.g., Romans 8:11), the Gospels do not explicitly describe the Spirit or Father resurrecting Jesus, apart from Jesus’ allusions to His own authority and divined unity.

Evaluating Contradictions:
If we privilege Jesus’ direct claims in the Gospels:

Verses such as John 10:17-18 and John 2:19 suggest Jesus attributed resurrection power to Himself.
The Gospels do not explicitly contradict this by crediting the Father or Spirit; rather, they emphasize Jesus’ unique role and unity with the Father.
Any attribution to the Father or Spirit in the epistles could be read as complementary rather than contradictory, depending on theological perspective.

Jesus’ Authority in the Gospels:
Matthew 28:18: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."
Post-resurrection, Jesus claims comprehensive authority. If we take this as a continuation of His earthly ministry, it solidifies His control over life, death, and resurrection.

Implications for Satan’s Dominion:
Gospels’ View of Satan:
Satan tempts Jesus with the promise of worldly authority (Matthew 4:8-10).
Jesus rejects Satan’s offer, implicitly claiming that divined authority cannot be bought or bartered.

Post-Resurrection Authority:
Jesus’ resurrection and His claim in Matthew 28:18 imply that the authority Satan falsely claimed or wielded has been nullified.
This challenges any belief that Satan remains the uncontested "ruler of the world."
Conclusion:
If we adhere strictly to Jesus’ statements in the Gospels, there is strong evidence that Jesus credited Himself with the authority over His own resurrection. These claims, combined with His post-resurrection declaration of supreme authority, suggest that any interpretation portraying Jesus as powerless or dependent on others for His resurrection would not align with the Gospels' portrayal of His words. Furthermore, Jesus’ claim undermines the idea of Satan’s continued dominion, presenting Jesus as the ultimate authority post-resurrection.

1. Context of Ecclesiastes 9:5:
The statement reflects the perspective of life "under the sun," a common refrain in Ecclesiastes that describes the human experience without the revelation of eternity.
The writer (traditionally Solomon) observes the futility and uncertainty of life without explicit reference to resurrection or eternal consciousness.
This verse influenced beliefs about death in Jesus' time, including the Sadducean denial of resurrection (Mark 12:18).

2. Jesus’ Teachings on Death and Life:
Jesus provides insight into death and the afterlife that either directly or implicitly reinterprets Old Testament perspectives, offering a fuller picture.

Consciousness After Death:
Luke 16:19-31 (The Rich Man and Lazarus):

Jesus describes the rich man and Lazarus experiencing distinct conditions after death, implying consciousness.
While some see this as a parable, it still reflects Jesus’ acknowledgment of post-mortem awareness.
Luke 23:43 (The Thief on the Cross):

Jesus says to the thief, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
This statement suggests immediate consciousness after death for the righteous.
Jesus' Teaching on Resurrection and Eternal Life:
John 11:25-26 (Raising of Lazarus):

"I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die."
Jesus reveals a deeper understanding of life and death, pointing to eternal life beyond physical death.
Mark 12:26-27 (God of the Living):

Jesus refutes the Sadducees' denial of the resurrection, saying, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken."
By emphasizing that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive to God, Jesus confirms consciousness after death.

3. Old Testament Views Reframed by Jesus:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 vs. Jesus’ Teachings:
Jesus does not explicitly contradict Ecclesiastes but reinterprets its context. While Ecclesiastes emphasizes earthly futility, Jesus introduces hope and clarity about eternal life.
Daniel 12:2: The Old Testament hints at resurrection ("Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake..."), but Jesus expands on this idea with detailed teaching about eternal destinations.

4. Application to First-Century Beliefs:
In Jesus' time, there were divergent views about death:

Sadducees rejected resurrection and focused solely on earthly existence.
Pharisees believed in resurrection and some form of afterlife consciousness.
Common People were influenced by Old Testament texts like Ecclesiastes 9:5, leading to uncertainty.
By addressing these beliefs:

Jesus clarified the reality of resurrection and eternal life, affirming the Pharisaic view while correcting errors (e.g., Mark 12:18-27).
He reoriented believers toward a God-centered understanding of life and death.

5. Reconciling Old Testament and Gospel Perspectives:
Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels take precedence over Old Testament views because He is the "Word made flesh" (John 1:14), bringing the fullest revelation of God's truth.
Old Testament statements like Ecclesiastes 9:5 are not invalidated but contextualized as limited perspectives awaiting fulfillment in Christ.

6. Summary and Conclusion:
When we prioritize Jesus' words in the Gospels as the definitive teaching, it becomes clear that:

Death is not a state of unconscious oblivion but a transition into another state of existence—conscious for both the righteous and the unrighteous.
Jesus redefines death and life in terms of resurrection and eternal union with God, offering a fuller understanding than what Old Testament writers or contemporary Jewish sects held.
Thus, the "dead know nothing" of Ecclesiastes 9:5 must be understood in its earthly, pre-Christ context, while Jesus’ words reveal the eternal and conscious reality of the soul after death.



Modern day reports of NDE for the most part confirm (bear witness to) Jesus' revelations about what actually occurs which all said and done, replace Solomons understanding of it as written in Ecclesiastes. This equates to which "king" (world view) one chooses to follow (adhere).

1. Jesus as the New Authority on Life and Death
Ecclesiastes 9:5 reflects a worldview rooted in earthly limitations: "The dead know nothing."
Solomon, writing under divined inspiration, expresses the human condition as it appears "under the sun"—from a perspective not fully illuminated by the resurrection hope later revealed through Jesus.

Jesus, however, declares in John 11:25-26: "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die."
His authority provides a new and complete understanding of death, overturning Solomon's limited insight by revealing the conscious, eternal reality of the soul.
________________________________________
2. Modern Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)
• Many modern NDE accounts share recurring themes:
• A sensation of leaving the body and heightened awareness.
• Encounters with beings of light, often described as overwhelmingly loving.
• Experiences of judgment or review of one’s life.
• In some cases, encountering Jesus or a divined presence they identify as Him.
• These accounts align closely with Jesus' teachings in the Gospels:
• Consciousness after death: The soul is aware and often transitions to a new reality.
• Judgment and life review: Echoing Jesus’ warnings and teachings about accountability for our actions (e.g., Matthew 12:36, Luke 16:19-31).
• Union with God and eternal life: Reiterating Jesus’ promise of eternal fellowship for believers (John 14:2-3).
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3. Choosing a King to Follow
The metaphor of choosing a "king" reflects the core spiritual decision every individual faces:
• Solomon’s View: Earthly wisdom acknowledges the apparent finality of death and the futility of life without divined revelation.
• Jesus’ View: Eternal wisdom illuminates life beyond death, emphasizing resurrection, conscious awareness, and ultimate union with God.
To follow Solomon’s perspective alone would mean embracing a limited, material understanding of death. To follow Jesus is to trust in His revelation of an eternal, conscious reality where death is not the end but a transition.
________________________________________
4. Implications for Faith
• The choice of "king" shapes not only one’s understanding of death but also how one lives.
• Jesus’ revelation about life after death:
• Offers hope and purpose.
• Encourages a life of love, service, and accountability.
• Solomon’s perspective:
• While valuable in its acknowledgment of life’s brevity, it may lead to despair or resignation without the hope of resurrection.
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5. Conclusion: Witness and Faith
The harmony between Jesus’ teachings and the patterns observed in NDEs serves as a form of witness, affirming His revelations about life, death, and eternity. The choice between Solomon’s limited understanding and Jesus’ transcendent truth boils down to a matter of world view —choosing which "king" to follow.
Those who align with Jesus’ teachings embrace the eternal perspective, finding comfort, hope, and purpose in His worldview of life beyond death.

[slowrider]

I have a few clarifying question for JW's as follows.

1. Do you claim that Jesus the Christ is just a mortal being like us?

2. Do you claim that Jesus the Christd oes not now have a body of flesh and bones?

Here is another 2 questions to add to the list.

Explain how God can Father an angel?

Explain why you believe that God Fathered an angel?

[Capbook]

Did the Church then exist after three days from Jesus death? Verse please.

Yes, in a prophetic* sence since the head represents the body.

VERSE =>

1 CORINTHIANS 12:21, 25

, the head cannot say to the feet, “I do not need you.” ... there should be no division in the body, but its members should have mutual concern for one another.+ ...27 Now you are Christ’s body,+ and each of you individually is a member.+

* NB Both Ezekiel and Jeremiah speak of Prophets achieving what in reality God (YHWH) the Father accomplished. They did it in a prophetc sence by announcing the event : VERSES => Ezekiel 43:3, Jeremiah 1:10.

Nowhere in the verse that says, three days after death the Church exist.

[slowrider]

Did the Church then exist after three days from Jesus death? Verse please.

Yes, in a prophetic* sence since the head represents the body.

VERSE =>

1 CORINTHIANS 12:21, 25

, the head cannot say to the feet, “I do not need you.” ... there should be no division in the body, but its members should have mutual concern for one another.+ ...27 Now you are Christ’s body,+ and each of you individually is a member.+

* NB Both Ezekiel and Jeremiah speak of Prophets achieving what in reality God (YHWH) the Father accomplished. They did it in a prophetc sence by announcing the event : VERSES => Ezekiel 43:3, Jeremiah 1:10.

Nowhere in the verse that says, three days after death the Church exist.

If you want a real eye opener about the JW's, visit a kingdom hall for a few times
and get to know the people. Then you will have an understanding of what you are encountering on here.

[onewithhim]

Did the Church then exist after three days from Jesus death? Verse please.

Yes, in a prophetic* sence since the head represents the body.

VERSE =>

1 CORINTHIANS 12:21, 25

, the head cannot say to the feet, “I do not need you.” ... there should be no division in the body, but its members should have mutual concern for one another.+ ...27 Now you are Christ’s body,+ and each of you individually is a member.+

* NB Both Ezekiel and Jeremiah speak of Prophets achieving what in reality God (YHWH) the Father accomplished. They did it in a prophetc sence by announcing the event : VERSES => Ezekiel 43:3, Jeremiah 1:10.

Nowhere in the verse that says, three days after death the Church exist.

If you want a real eye opener about the JW's, visit a kingdom hall for a few times
and get to know the people. Then you will have an understanding of what you are encountering on here.

Excellent idea! Go to a Kingdom Hall and you can get to know the people, rather than listening to the meanness of other people.