In the Beginning

[placebofactor]

In the Beginning
I am taking a new approach by treating the following like an unfolding story. It concerns “The fall of Lucifer and the creation of a new world we call Earth.” If you have other ideas, post them, then support them with scripture. Let’s not argue; we can discuss these matters with reason and common sense. I believe it can be very enlightening.

What was it like before time began? Who can explain or describe the great “I Am,” the Father of all, who is all in all and from everlasting to everlasting? Both John and Paul had a glimpse of this invisible world. Paul said he could not find the words to describe it. The invisible kingdom of God is a place without time, sickness, or death. A myriad of spirits serve their Creator. At his right stands the Father’s only Begotten Son “who is in the brightness of his Father’s glory, and the express image of his person, and who upholds all things by the word of his power.”  

Also, an innumerable number serve the Father. They are incorporeal creatures of every form, real beings of a higher power, perfection, and dignity. Creatures that possess great intelligence; are first in rank, in dignity, and fulfill their offices as they serve their Creator and declare His will. There are nine orders and an innumerable number of them. There are Seraphim, Cherubim, thrones and dominions; virtues, powers, principalities, archangels; and the angels or messengers of God. They excel in strength, are immortal, and act as agents through which God accomplishes His purposes. “They neither marry nor are they given in marriage.”

But there was one, a Cherubim who became filled with pride and jealousy, his name, Lucifer the bearer of light. His anger and jealousy were directed at the Son of God, he, who sat at the Father’s right hand. He said in his heart, “I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation. I will ascend above the clouds; I will be like the most High.”

And the LORD God knew his thoughts and said, “How art thou fallen for heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!” So, a heavenly council was held when the Father declared, “Lucifer can no longer remain with us, for he has sinned against me.”

“And where shall we send him.”

“I will send my beloved Son to create a new world of substance and matter; we shall call it Earth. And we will fill it with creatures of every shape and size, creatures of the water, air, and land, creatures who can walk, swim, fly, and communicate. But there shall be one creature made in my Son’s image and his likeness; we will call him man. The man will be made of the dust of the ground, and my Son shall breathe the breath of life into him, and he shall become a living soul.

The Father turned to his Son and said, “I will send you; I will give you the invisible things, the building blocks of life, things that can be understood only by the things you speak into being, even my eternal power and godly nature will I give you.”  

He turned to his Holy Spirit and said, “I will give you the power to form my Son’s words into the visible things of the earth,” and so it was. And somewhere in God’s infinite universe, the Lord Jesus Christ spoke his first words, “Let there be” and so the heaven and earth were created by the Word and Wisdom of God.” Also, from his words, were the sun, moon, and stars of heaven made. “And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” And “by his Spirit, he hath garnished the heavens.”

And so, Lucifer was cast down from heaven to an earth covered with water. There, he was to be called by many names, Serpent, Leviathan, the king over the children of pride, the Devil, Satan, the son of perdition. And the host that followed after, those who kept not their first estate but left their habitation, were cast down to earth.

And it was written, “Darkness was upon the face of the deep.” It was a darkness of gross ignorance, a low, base, and vile thing that now inhabited the depths of the oceans, a place known to us as the region of the dead, the darkness of hell as the ancient Rabbis described it. Then the Father “Commanded the light, the Shekinah Glory of his only begotten Son to shine out of darkness.” “The Sun of Righteousness,” he who is in the spiritual, what the natural light is to the natural world.”

[placebofactor]

If we knew the number of years Adam lived in the Garden of Eden before he sinned and then cast out, we would then add 6028 years to that number. According to the word of God, that would be the age of the Earth. It appears you have fallen for this scientific bull of billions of years, that to bad!

There is no statement in the bible that God created the earth in the first "day".

There is no statement that states he didn't. In the beginning of what? If it wasn't the first day, what was it? At the beginning of the first day, nothing but a spiritual world existed before the first day. There was no material universe or earth except that which was created from the beginning of the first day.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

RELATED POSTS : IN THE BEGINNING ...

Did anything exist prior to "the beginning"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 99#p882099

Does the bible narrative limit the age of the universe?
viewtopic.php?p=752669#p752669

What are we to understand with the expression "God created the heavens"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 09#p763409

What was the "waterty deep" referred to at the beginning of the creation account?
viewtopic.php?p=1076892#p1076892

How is the Hebrew TEHOM used'in scripture (Genesis 1:2)?
viewtopic.php?p=1159500#p1159500

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EVOLUTION, ADAM &EVE and ...THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS

[myth-one.com]

The earth is about 4.55 billion years old. Adam and Eve were created about 6,000 years ago.

If we knew the number of years Adam lived in the Garden of Eden before he sinned and then cast out, we would then add 6028 years to that number. According to the word of God, that would be the age of the Earth. It appears you have fallen for this scientific bull of billions of years, that to bad!

Adam and Eve were not created in the original creation described in Genesis 1:1:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)

Adam & Eve were created in the re-creation of a decimated earth which begins in Genesis 1:3:

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)

The original creation occurred about 4.55 billion years ago, and the recreation began about 6,000 years ago.

[JehovahsWitness]

In the beginning of what? If it wasn't the first day, what was it? ...

THE BEGINNING OF WHAT?



The beginning of God's creation of the physical universe should not be confused with the first "creative day". The creative days were God preparing the planet earth for human habitation. The "beginning" might be compared to buying land but the "days" to clearing the bush and building, decorating and furnishing the house.

So in theory just as you can buy land years or decades before you construct the house, "the beginning" could have been many thousands or even millions of years before the earth began to be To be prepared for habitation.

NOTE: The spiritual realm was created before the physical universe described in Genesis 1 verse 1.



JW

FURTHER READING
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001949


RELATED POSTS

Does Genesis 1:1 describe God creating spiritual or physical "heavens"?
viewtopic.php?p=1063203#p1063203

Did anything exist prior to "the beginning"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 99#p882099

Does the bible contain scientifically accurate insights about the origin of the Universe?
viewtopic.php?p=1032301#p1032301

What are we to understand with the world "God created the heavens"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 09#p763409

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE PHYSICAL HEAVENS , THE PLANET EARTH and ...THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS

[myth-one.com]

The beginning of God's creation of the physical universe should not be confused with the first "creative day". The creative days were God preparing the planet earth for human habitation. The "beginning" might be compared to buying land but the "days" to clearing the bush and building, decorating and furnishing the house.

So in theory just as you can buy land years or decades before you construct the house, "the beginning" could have been many thousands or even millions of years before the earth began to be To be prepared for habitation.

So God wasn't capable of directly creating a heaven and earth that could support human life?

[placebofactor]

If we knew the number of years Adam lived in the Garden of Eden before he sinned and then cast out, we would then add 6028 years to that number. According to the word of God, that would be the age of the Earth. It appears you have fallen for this scientific bull of billions of years, that to bad!

There is no statement in the bible that God created the earth in the first "day".



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

RELATED POSTS : IN THE BEGINNING ...

Did anything exist prior to "the beginning"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 99#p882099

Sure, in scripture it's called the third heaven, the spiritual Kingdom of Jehovah God.

Does the bible narrative limit the age of the universe?
viewtopic.php?p=752669#p752669

It appears to when we read, "In the beginning."

It is speaking of our atmosphere and the heaven of the stars.

What are we to understand with the expression "God created the heavens"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 09#p763409

It's speaking of our atmosphere and the heaven where the Lord placed the stars, all that is visible to the human eye.

What was the "waterty deep" referred to at the beginning of the creation account?
viewtopic.php?p=1076892#p1076892

When examining Genesis 1:2, we cannot take that one word ‘deep’ without considering the context in which it lies. “Darkness was upon the face of the deep.” We need to understand what the word darkness means, and why it was only upon the face or (surface) of the deep.

Let's begin with the Hebrew "darkness." The Hebrew word, ‘cha-shack,’ it has nothing to do with literal darkness but speaks of an evil, vile place where the spiritually fallen dwell.

The Hebrew word for “face” is payiym: It speaks of the surface of a thing, of an open, boundless plane, or the boundless area at the bottom of the oceans, but not the surface of the water above.

Let's take a look at Luke 8:30. It is the story of the Legion of angels that possessed a man. The Greek word Luke used is, "abussos". It means the same as the Hebrew for the abyss, deep, either of the ocean or the underworld. As a noun it signifies, the place of the dead, Tartarus, that part of the underworld in which the souls of the wicked are confined, until the great day of God's Judgement.

This Legion of demons knew about this underworld of the deep, so they and with the Lord not to return them to this place. Even as the Son of man, Jesus had the power to send the fallen angels to Hell. "The devils went out of the man and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were drowned."
As I said before, get a good concordance like Thayer's and examine these words for yourself instead of letting others feed you, their story.





How is the Hebrew TEHOM used'in scripture (Genesis 1:2)?
viewtopic.php?p=1159500#p1159500

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EVOLUTION, ADAM &EVE and ...THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS

[JehovahsWitness]

It appears to when we read, "In the beginning."

It is speaking of our atmosphere and the heaven of the stars.

I disagree

WHAT IN THE BIBLE TEXT INDICATES THAT THE CREATION OF THE STARS AND PLANETS PRECEDED THE FIRST CREATIVE DAY?

The writer consistently bookmarks each creative "day" with the same a divine declaration ... "And/then God said..." (at the start) and a statement of closure at the end "there was evening there was morning : a [1st/2nd ect ...]day".

That being the case , Genesis 1:1 stands alone, outside of this pattern, indicating it was not part if the process that began on the first day.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[placebofactor]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #16]

J.W., I respect your opinion.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #16]

J.W., I respect your opinion.

I forgot to mention, if you are a practicing Witness, you should know they teach that each day of creation represents 1000 years, so according to them, the Earth is about 12,000 years old.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #16]

J.W., I respect your opinion.

That is a reasonable position, however may I respectfully remind you this is a debate forum: Do you have any bible base counterarguments to the points made?

WHAT IN THE BIBLE TEXT INDICATES THAT THE CREATION OF THE STARS AND PLANETS PRECEDED THE FIRST CREATIVE DAY?

The writer consistently bookmarks each creative "day" with the same a divine declaration ... "And/then God said..." (at the start) and a statement of closure at the end "there was evening there was morning : a [1st/2nd ect ...]day".

That being the case , Genesis 1:1 stands alone, outside of this pattern, indicating it was not part if the process that began on the first day.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[slowrider]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #16]

J.W., I respect your opinion.

That is a reasonable position, however may I respectfully remind you this is a debate forum: Do you have any bible base counterarguments to the points made?

Why yes I do, Here is one for you.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

Sinners commit sin.