The UNITED NATIONS will turn against the world religions?

[JehovahsWitness]

• Do you think you will always remember that Jehovahs Witnesses are the only religion on earth that believes the "wild beast" of the book of Revelation is the United Nations ?

• Do you think you will remember that JWs alone believe the attack of Babylon the Great in the bible represents the total destruction of all religious organisations on earth and an attempt eventually to destroy that of Jehovah's Witnesses themselves ?

• What do you think your reaction would be if one day all religions institutons* were abolished?

*individuals remaining free to practice their religion in the privacy of their own homes

[Purple Knight]

If this happens the thing to do will be recognise bible prophecy being fulfilled and quickly take a position on the winning side.

I can recognise it all you like, but I don't think it's righteous to take a side simply because it'll win. If these prophecies come true I will re-evaluate only the idea that the events of the Bible are unlikely to be true. But only one thing can sway me out of my atheism, which is proving to me that God is a good person. I actually don't care if he exists or not. If he doesn't exist but he's a good person, then I'll just be a cultural Christian.

Convincing me that the entity in the Bible described as God is a good person, is going to be a lot harder than convincing me he exists. I'm not going to die on this ridiculous hill of this-absolutely-never-happened. I wasn't there and I don't know.

[JehovahsWitness]

Babylon the Great is the world empire of FALSE religion. True religion is no part of her (compare Rev 18:4)

So when the Wild Beast (the UN) comes for Babylon the Great, it will attack every religion except JW?

I did not say that? The question asked was "Are the Jehovah's Witnesses saying that they are "Babylon the Great?" If you are now asking if the UN will make a distinction between true religion and false , the answer is no. They will certainly attack the one true organisation, especially when they see it's the last one standing but what they will not - cannot do - according to scripture, is destroy it.

ISAIAH 54:17

No weapon formed against you will have any success ... This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah

In short, they will think they can destoroy this little scraggerly unprotected "nothing" of a religion , just as they did all the big players and their affiliates. The bible propheys. ..

"9 You will come against them like a storm, and you will cover the land like clouds, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.”’ 10 “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘In that day thoughts will come into your heart, and you will devise an evil plan. 11 You will say: “I will invade the land of unprotected settlements" - EZEKIEL 38: 9-11

But turning on true religion, they trigger events that bring the governments of the world (and those control them) into direct conflict with the God of the bible who, through Jesus, comes to their defense. Guess who wins...

To learn more please go to other posts related to ARMAGEDDON, DIVINE WAR and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

*The Return of Christ

If this happens the thing to do will be recognise bible prophecy being fulfilled and quickly take a position on the winning side.

... I don't think it's righteous to take a side simply because it'll win.

According to the bible, after the destructon of false religion, having irrifutable proof that the God of the bible is the True God and who his people are, those that choose to continue to oppose him on the principle they would prefer to die than make last minute changes and submit to him, will of course have their wishes respected.




JW

[William]

It is interesting to observe how the iconism is used in this imagery - giving an impression of Jack the Ripper (re prostitutes). It is easy to see how such imagery might affect those who suffer paranoia and how this can add to their fear. Imagery has always been a device used by Cultural Christians like dogs are used for herding sheep.

[2timothy316]

It's not that they will not try to come after JWs, it is that JWs will be the last one they will try to dismantle with possibly drastic measures. Unlike the other religions that will be easily taken apart, JWs will devotedly keep their way of worship. JWs will also have a message that will target all the nations of the earth that their judgement is near. This will not sit well with the nations and will prompt them to come after JWs. That is when Jehovah God will intervene. This will be the start of the final war between the nations and God himself. Armageddon.

"We will be the last religion standing."

Okay that's massively predictive. It's not likely to happen anyway. This is what rational people want: What we can test.

If this happens I'll be very happy in the meantime because Christians really don't bother anybody anymore whereas some other religions actually make the world less safe.

If what JWs say comes to pass, then I'd recommend taking the example of Rahab to heart. She wasn't a Hebrew, anyone reading this has a lifestyle is probably better than what her's was. But she had heard about the victories the Hebrews had in Egypt. She might have even heard of the better life the Hebrew God had planned for His followers. So when the Hebrew spies landed on her front door she had a choice to make, a side to choose.

Most people reading this know JWs preach about the paradise that is to come for the earth. They have been reading it for years. Ridding the world of everyone, not just religions, that makes the world 'less safe' (which is putting it mildly BTW). When JWs are the last religion standing, there will be a choice for people to make, just like Rahab. When the nations are hunting us down and they come to your door asking you if you know any Witnesses and do you know where they are at, what will your answer be?

[Purple Knight]

I did not say that? The question asked was "Are the Jehovah's Witnesses saying that they are "Babylon the Great?" If you are now asking if the UN will make a distinction between true religion and false , the answer is no. They will certainly attack the one true organisation, especially when they see it's the last one standing but what they will not - cannot do - according to scripture, is destroy it.

Okay, but you said that Babylon the Great was false religion, not some amalgam of false and true religions. So it seems like when Revelations says the Beast will come for Babylon the Great, it then is saying, he will come for the false religions. Now, this doesn't say what the Beast may or may not trample in the process, but you're saying he can't destroy the true religion. This is borderline a nitpick but I actually see it as significant, since what this describes is who the Beast is coming for. If he started attacking a ship carrying three tonnes of fruit salad (including apples) meaning to eat it, a prediction that he would come for all the fruits that were not apples is still accurate, but not very precise, and also misleading.

But again this is Revelations so for all I know, "the Beast with seven heads and ten horns" is talking about that really bad pimple I had that one time.

When the nations are hunting us down and they come to your door asking you if you know any Witnesses and do you know where they are at, what will your answer be?

It depends if I think you're hurting people. There have been those child rape scandals and people deliberately exploiting the two witness rule to continue to rape kids. And I know the Catholics are worse, and I know what happens without a rule like that (kids make stuff up, because they can, not knowing how serious what they are doing is) but religion seems to draw these diddlers like honey. I don't know if I think those flies of filth would do more or less damage if religion never existed, and that's a very serious question I have to answer. I mean, if the far side of moral relativism had its way and dominated culture, nobody would even think raping kids was wrong, but I don't know if a lack of religion makes people total moral relativists. It frankly seems not to.

A lot of what many atheists say about religion is very speculative and requires huge leaps. Does it hurt culture? Does it make people behave badly, since in the case of Christianity they can deathbed repent? Some of this there's little to no evidence for. There has NEVER been a case of a Christian mother killing her baby to put it directly into Heaven, which is exactly what would happen if you believe the canon, so as an atheist what I really think is that even when people say they believe these things as fact, inside of them, rationality has won, and they won't actually do anything that crazy. But the one thing religion does seem to do that's actually really really bad and there's plenty of evidence for, is diddle children. It seems to attract it, cause it somehow.

If I think you're not hurting people I won't lie to them, but I won't help them hurt you either, and they can just take me too. I'm kind of already there with the anti-chicken laws. They are starting to come for people's chickens. So I might be gone before I have to make the choice about which religious organisations are festering cesspots (which is at least some of them) and which ones are innocent and deserve to be protected, like all innocents.

[JehovahsWitness]

Okay, but you said that Babylon the Great was false religion, not some amalgam of false and true religions.

Correct.

it seems like when Revelations says the Beast will come for Babylon the Great,

No it does not say it will "come for" Babylon it says , it will destory Bayllon the Great. The motivation/intent of the worlds governments are ultimately irrelevant, the prophecy is not about how they classify religion but about what they will do, i.e attempt to rid the world of all organised religion. The only person whose classification is relevant is God. False religion is finally fully revealed to be so by its destruction ; true religion having been been given an assurance by Almighty God that he will defend it, by its survival ( see my earlier post). So when the UN attacks and destroys what it believes to be "all the fruit" the only fruit it actually manages to harm are rotten anyway. It (the world governments under the UN) eventually notice a brunch of fresh grapes that survived their attack unscathed.

In short, the UN attacks what it thinks is all the fruit , but ends up only destroying the rotten fruit (of which the good fruit is no part). It ends up being a de facto attack on false religion regardless of their intent. Or to use your analogy, it attacks the ship full of fruit, it thinks all the fruit is on the ship. After the fruit ship sinks it notices a little rubber dingy full of fruit that was never even on the ship.

According to the revelation , the governments of this world will smash, trample and completely burnt with fire all false religion. True religion will be sitting pretty, unscathed and entirely unharmed by the event. The nations will think this is just one last religion to easily squash. They will turn on "true religion" expecting no resistence; that will be the last thing they ever do.

[Purple Knight]

No it does not say it will "come for" Babylon it says , it will destory Bayllon the Great. The motivation/intent of the worlds governments are ultimately irrelevant, the prophecy is not about how they classify religion but about what they will do, i.e attempt to rid the world of all organised religion. The only person whose classification is relevant is God. False religion is finally fully revealed to be so by its destruction; true religion having been given an assurance by Almighty God that he will defend it, by its survival (see my earlier post). So when the UN attacks and destroys what it believes to be "all the fruit" the only fruit it actually manages to harm are rotten anyway. It (the world governments under the UN) eventually notice a brunch of fresh grapes that survived their attack unscathed.

Alright that makes more sense.

Now let me make a prediction also. Mine is based not on God existing but on how this might actually happen even if he doesn't. And we'll see whose prediction is closer to the truth.

I think communities like the Amish, Mennonites, and maybe even Mormons will also survive this type of catastrophe, which might well happen.

This is a simple prediction based on logic, and factors already in play. What JWs have is a strong, healthy, and loyal community that has every capacity to fend for itself and retreat if absolutely necessary rather than throw their religion on the pile of books Big Brother wants to burn if you're going to get your daily crust of mouldy bread. If this story plays out as you say, it'll be because of that. However, other sects work this way too. If JWs survive but not Mennonites or the Amish, I will have no clear explanation. So this is where I test your hypothesis that God exists and all this is completely real. (I don't think JWs are currently anything like the Amish. But they are close-knit enough to become that way pretty quick if necessary. I bet half of you have a copy of The Lost Ways or something similar hidden in your mattresses, because you know when they come, they're coming for that, too.)

[JehovahsWitness]

If JWs survive but not Mennonites or the Amish, I will have no clear explanation.

And that is the point of the thread - last man standing wins the game.

Except its not a game, its a matter of life and death. We believe the door will still be open for people to join the true religion, even at that 11th hour : as I asked historia I ask you : will you REMEMBER this conversation if it happens ? If you do, you will know what is needed to survive the ultimate war between good and evil that will follow.

You don't believe it now but when it happens Please remember!

[William]

It is interesting to observe how the iconism is used in this imagery - giving an impression of Jack the Ripper (re prostitutes). It is easy to see how such imagery might affect those who suffer paranoia and how this can add to their fear. Imagery has always been a device used by Cultural Christians like dogs are used for herding sheep.

Presentation: Rethinking Faith, Fear, and Action – Building God's Kingdom on Earth
Introduction: The Question of Responsibility
Many religious groups, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, claim to represent God’s Kingdom.
Their message: “Join us, wait for God’s intervention, and watch as the world is destroyed.”

Key issue: Does this message foster fear, a persecution complex, and self-fulfilling prophecies instead of empowering individuals to improve the world?
1. Persecution Complex and Self-Fulfilling Prophecy
Persecution Complex:
JWs frame opposition from governments or institutions as proof of their faithfulness and divined favor.
Their message anticipates persecution, reinforcing an us vs. them mentality that isolates members and fuels distrust of outsiders.
Self-Fulfilling Prophecy:
By accusing governments or organizations (e.g., the UN or WHO) of malevolence, JWs provoke opposition.
When governments respond with restrictions, JWs interpret this as proof of prophecy fulfillment, further entrenching their beliefs.

2. The Cost of Fearfulness
Fear-Driven Worldview: Constant focus on destruction and divined judgment creates anxiety and resignation.
Sacrificial Narrative: The group positions itself as a target, reinforcing a belief that suffering will catalyze divined intervention.
Mental Health Impact: Isolation, fear of the world, and shunning practices often take a toll on emotional well-being.

3. The Contradictions of Waiting
Relying on the World: JWs denounce worldly systems but depend on them (e.g., legal protections, property ownership).
Exclusivity and Division: Their message separates members from broader society, fostering judgment rather than collaboration.
Passive Approach: Instead of teaching how to improve the world, their message is: “Join us, wait, and God will destroy the rest.”

4. An Alternative Path: Building God's Kingdom Through Action
Instead of waiting for divined intervention, humanity can:
Focus on Shared Values: Justice, compassion, love, and peace.

Reject Fear: Avoid fear-based ideologies that isolate and paralyze action.
Collaborate Across Divisions: Work with others to address societal issues, regardless of religious or ideological differences.

5. Practical Steps Toward Achieving God’s Vision
Community Building: Strengthen local communities through kindness, inclusion, and mutual support.
Moral Leadership: Promote ethical behavior in leadership and governance.
Education & Empowerment: Provide tools for people to create positive change without relying on apocalyptic narratives.

6. Living God’s Kingdom Now
Reject Persecution Complex: Focus on collaboration and shared humanity instead of divisive "us vs. them" thinking.
Faith in Action: "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:26). Live out divined values—justice, love, and mercy—through tangible efforts to better the world.

Reject Self-Fulfilling Prophecy: Engage in constructive dialogue and efforts instead of provoking opposition to validate beliefs.

Conclusion: A Call for Balance
Faith and action are not mutually exclusive. Humanity must:
Take responsibility for improving the world now, rather than waiting for divined intervention.
Work together across divisions to reflect God’s values of justice, love, and peace.
Reject fear, persecution complexes, and self-fulfilling prophecies that isolate and harm.
God’s Kingdom isn’t just about waiting—it’s about working, loving, and building today.

End of Presentation

[2timothy316]

When the nations are hunting us down and they come to your door asking you if you know any Witnesses and do you know where they are at, what will your answer be?

It depends if I think you're hurting people. There have been those child rape scandals and people deliberately exploiting the two witness rule to continue to rape kids. And I know the Catholics are worse, and I know what happens without a rule like that (kids make stuff up, because they can, not knowing how serious what they are doing is) but religion seems to draw these diddlers like honey. I don't know if I think those flies of filth would do more or less damage if religion never existed, and that's a very serious question I have to answer. I mean, if the far side of moral relativism had its way and dominated culture, nobody would even think raping kids was wrong, but I don't know if a lack of religion makes people total moral relativists. It frankly seems not to.

Yet when they come for JWs it will not be because of these things. It will be because we will refuse to stop worshiping Jehovah God. This is what people will have to base their choice on. By this time “the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah” Ezekiel 36:23, 37:28, 38:23, and 39:7. That name is tied to JWs. The choice will be clear. God will deal with rapist better than the judicial law of any country does now. If they call themselves a JW and even if they have been hidden up to this point, their judgement might be harshest. Whether or not you feel like a group is hurting people will not come to mide If a heavy armed group comes to your door asking where JWs are, I can assure you, it will stand out as unprecedented. As JW stated in their post, will you remember this thread? Or will you dismiss what you're reading here, stick to your ways and judge a whole group of people based on the bad actions of a few who I can tell you now, who as a majority also want those who carry out horrible acts stopped or removed if need be as well?

A lot of what many atheists say about religion is very speculative and requires huge leaps. Does it hurt culture? Does it make people behave badly, since in the case of Christianity they can deathbed repent? Some of this there's little to no evidence for. There has NEVER been a case of a Christian mother killing her baby to put it directly into Heaven, which is exactly what would happen if you believe the canon, so as an atheist what I really think is that even when people say they believe these things as fact, inside of them, rationality has won, and they won't actually do anything that crazy. But the one thing religion does seem to do that's actually really really bad and there's plenty of evidence for, is diddle children. It seems to attract it, cause it somehow.

And this is why false religion must be removed, It also the reason why JWs have the disfellowshipping arrangement. Some, change their ways and return to do what is right. There are those that hate us for that arrangement and it is that spirit of hatred that has no place in God Kingdom. The mother misled into thinking her children will go to heaven if killed, those children will likely live again. The Kingdom of God will set all of the horrible things that false religion has done. Note, that I'm not saying that it will be the Jehovah Witnesses that will carry this out. We are witnesses, not judge, jury or executioner. This is the difference between us and many other religions that call themselves Christian. We as JWs know we have no part in trying to use our power along with our inherited sinful thinking to try and change the world.

If I think you're not hurting people I won't lie to them, but I won't help them hurt you either, and they can just take me too. I'm kind of already there with the anti-chicken laws. They are starting to come for people's chickens. So I might be gone before I have to make the choice about which religious organisations are festering cesspots (which is at least some of them) and which ones are innocent and deserve to be protected, like all innocents.

Well, who knows, depending on your heart condition, than perhaps I will see you in the new earth to come and then you will not be an atheist anymore. You'll be one of those who now wish there wasn't a bunch of nasty religions, but will actually live to see it come true. I wonder sometimes if we will even use the word religion again when the correct way to service God is clearly defined.