Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[Capbook]

I answered this on another thread. Anyway, I will answer again.
1. The Father is the speaker in verse 8. He alone is the Alpha and Omega. He is to come with Jesus when Jesus returns. See Malachi 3:5.
2. Jesus died and was made alive. Verse 18 refers to Jesus. He is "the First and the Last" but that is different than Alpha and Omega. I asked you to look at an Interlinear Bible and you could see the difference in the Greek words. I also explained what "the First" means.

1. So the Father is the one being pierced to you? (Rev 1:1,7-9) This book is the Revelation of Jesus. Verse 7 and 9 talked about Jesus and in between is not? Context please.
2. Yes, Jesus is the speaker in verse 8 and 18 through context.

Rev 1:7-9
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV

Verse 7 refers to Jesus. Verse 8 refers to Jehovah, the Father. The Father is the one who gave all this revelation to John through Jesus. He is going to have many things to say throughout. He inserts verse 8 in the narrative.

Context again, who for the second time says, "I am Alpha and Omega" here?

Rev 1:11-13
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
KJV

The first part of the verse is Jehovah talking. Then, in the midst of the candlesticks is Jesus. Did you notice that John turned around from looking at Jehovah in the vision, and saw the Son of Man?

.

Prove that there are two voices that John heard in that verses?

All of the Revelation is God, Jehovah, speaking through Jesus to John. He said that He is the Alpha and Omega. Now, in the vision John turned around and saw the vision of Jesus. That shows that when he faced forward he saw the vision of Jehovah, then he turned the other way and saw Jesus. Two directions, two individuals. It is logical thinking, just what Jehovah asked of us centuries ago (Isaiah 1:18, KJV).

First, you reasoned that it is the Jehovah talking (I colored red above), now Jehovah through Jesus, sounds conflicting.
God the Father says He is the first and the last. (Isa 44;6)
And Jesus says, He is the first and the last. (Rev 1:17,18)
This proves that again Jesus is God.

Rev 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa 44:6
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God

Nope. Jesus is the "First and the Last," not Alpha and Omega. He is a different First and Last than his Father at Isaiah 44:6. Jehovah is supreme over everyone. He can be called the First and the Last. Jesus is called that because he was the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind. They are not the same First and Last. And Jehovah never died, therefore verses 17 & 18 of Rev.1 refer to Jesus. We have discussed this all before.

As the words used are the same, that would also mean that the Father the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind? Same words different interpretation? Why to Jesus only?

[onewithhim]

1. So the Father is the one being pierced to you? (Rev 1:1,7-9) This book is the Revelation of Jesus. Verse 7 and 9 talked about Jesus and in between is not? Context please.
2. Yes, Jesus is the speaker in verse 8 and 18 through context.

Rev 1:7-9
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV

Verse 7 refers to Jesus. Verse 8 refers to Jehovah, the Father. The Father is the one who gave all this revelation to John through Jesus. He is going to have many things to say throughout. He inserts verse 8 in the narrative.

Context again, who for the second time says, "I am Alpha and Omega" here?

Rev 1:11-13
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
KJV

The first part of the verse is Jehovah talking. Then, in the midst of the candlesticks is Jesus. Did you notice that John turned around from looking at Jehovah in the vision, and saw the Son of Man?

.

Prove that there are two voices that John heard in that verses?

All of the Revelation is God, Jehovah, speaking through Jesus to John. He said that He is the Alpha and Omega. Now, in the vision John turned around and saw the vision of Jesus. That shows that when he faced forward he saw the vision of Jehovah, then he turned the other way and saw Jesus. Two directions, two individuals. It is logical thinking, just what Jehovah asked of us centuries ago (Isaiah 1:18, KJV).

First, you reasoned that it is the Jehovah talking (I colored red above), now Jehovah through Jesus, sounds conflicting.
God the Father says He is the first and the last. (Isa 44;6)
And Jesus says, He is the first and the last. (Rev 1:17,18)
This proves that again Jesus is God.

Rev 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa 44:6
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God

Nope. Jesus is the "First and the Last," not Alpha and Omega. He is a different First and Last than his Father at Isaiah 44:6. Jehovah is supreme over everyone. He can be called the First and the Last. Jesus is called that because he was the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind. They are not the same First and Last. And Jehovah never died, therefore verses 17 & 18 of Rev.1 refer to Jesus. We have discussed this all before.

As the words used are the same, that would also mean that the Father the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind? Same words different interpretation? Why to Jesus only?

No, the words are not the same. Look in an Interlinear Bible and you can see this for yourself.

[Capbook]

Verse 7 refers to Jesus. Verse 8 refers to Jehovah, the Father. The Father is the one who gave all this revelation to John through Jesus. He is going to have many things to say throughout. He inserts verse 8 in the narrative.

Context again, who for the second time says, "I am Alpha and Omega" here?

Rev 1:11-13
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
KJV

The first part of the verse is Jehovah talking. Then, in the midst of the candlesticks is Jesus. Did you notice that John turned around from looking at Jehovah in the vision, and saw the Son of Man?

.

Prove that there are two voices that John heard in that verses?

All of the Revelation is God, Jehovah, speaking through Jesus to John. He said that He is the Alpha and Omega. Now, in the vision John turned around and saw the vision of Jesus. That shows that when he faced forward he saw the vision of Jehovah, then he turned the other way and saw Jesus. Two directions, two individuals. It is logical thinking, just what Jehovah asked of us centuries ago (Isaiah 1:18, KJV).

First, you reasoned that it is the Jehovah talking (I colored red above), now Jehovah through Jesus, sounds conflicting.
God the Father says He is the first and the last. (Isa 44;6)
And Jesus says, He is the first and the last. (Rev 1:17,18)
This proves that again Jesus is God.

Rev 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa 44:6
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God

Nope. Jesus is the "First and the Last," not Alpha and Omega. He is a different First and Last than his Father at Isaiah 44:6. Jehovah is supreme over everyone. He can be called the First and the Last. Jesus is called that because he was the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind. They are not the same First and Last. And Jehovah never died, therefore verses 17 & 18 of Rev.1 refer to Jesus. We have discussed this all before.

As the words used are the same, that would also mean that the Father the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind? Same words different interpretation? Why to Jesus only?

No, the words are not the same. Look in an Interlinear Bible and you can see this for yourself.

I've posted Bible verses above I colored red, are those verses wrong to you?

[onewithhim]

Context again, who for the second time says, "I am Alpha and Omega" here?

Rev 1:11-13
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
KJV

The first part of the verse is Jehovah talking. Then, in the midst of the candlesticks is Jesus. Did you notice that John turned around from looking at Jehovah in the vision, and saw the Son of Man?

.

Prove that there are two voices that John heard in that verses?

All of the Revelation is God, Jehovah, speaking through Jesus to John. He said that He is the Alpha and Omega. Now, in the vision John turned around and saw the vision of Jesus. That shows that when he faced forward he saw the vision of Jehovah, then he turned the other way and saw Jesus. Two directions, two individuals. It is logical thinking, just what Jehovah asked of us centuries ago (Isaiah 1:18, KJV).

First, you reasoned that it is the Jehovah talking (I colored red above), now Jehovah through Jesus, sounds conflicting.
God the Father says He is the first and the last. (Isa 44;6)
And Jesus says, He is the first and the last. (Rev 1:17,18)
This proves that again Jesus is God.

Rev 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa 44:6
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God

Nope. Jesus is the "First and the Last," not Alpha and Omega. He is a different First and Last than his Father at Isaiah 44:6. Jehovah is supreme over everyone. He can be called the First and the Last. Jesus is called that because he was the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind. They are not the same First and Last. And Jehovah never died, therefore verses 17 & 18 of Rev.1 refer to Jesus. We have discussed this all before.

As the words used are the same, that would also mean that the Father the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind? Same words different interpretation? Why to Jesus only?

No, the words are not the same. Look in an Interlinear Bible and you can see this for yourself.

I've posted Bible verses above I colored red, are those verses wrong to you?

No, your understanding of them is wrong. Did you check out an Interlinear Bible?

[Difflugia]

Nope. Jesus is the "First and the Last," not Alpha and Omega. He is a different First and Last than his Father at Isaiah 44:6. Jehovah is supreme over everyone. He can be called the First and the Last. Jesus is called that because he was the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind. They are not the same First and Last. And Jehovah never died, therefore verses 17 & 18 of Rev.1 refer to Jesus. We have discussed this all before.

No, the words are not the same. Look in an Interlinear Bible and you can see this for yourself.

No, your understanding of them is wrong. Did you check out an Interlinear Bible?

What do you think is different and what do you think an interlinear will tell us? Is it just that Isaiah is in Hebrew, but Revelation is in Greek? The phrases convey exactly the same thing in each respective language.

אֲנִ֤י רִאשֹׁון֙ וַאֲנִ֣י אַחֲרֹ֔ון
"I am first and I am last."

ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ πρῶτος καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος
"I am the first and the last."

[onewithhim]

Nope. Jesus is the "First and the Last," not Alpha and Omega. He is a different First and Last than his Father at Isaiah 44:6. Jehovah is supreme over everyone. He can be called the First and the Last. Jesus is called that because he was the first to be resurrected to heavenly life, and he is the last to be given the honor of saving mankind. They are not the same First and Last. And Jehovah never died, therefore verses 17 & 18 of Rev.1 refer to Jesus. We have discussed this all before.

No, the words are not the same. Look in an Interlinear Bible and you can see this for yourself.

No, your understanding of them is wrong. Did you check out an Interlinear Bible?

What do you think is different and what do you think an interlinear will tell us? Is it just that Isaiah is in Hebrew, but Revelation is in Greek? The phrases convey exactly the same thing in each respective language.

אֲנִ֤י רִאשֹׁון֙ וַאֲנִ֣י אַחֲרֹ֔ון
"I am first and I am last."

ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ πρῶτος καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος
"I am the first and the last."

If you look at the Hebrew and the Greek, you can see that the words are different than "Alpha and Omega." Their meaning is entirely different.

[Difflugia]

אֲנִ֤י רִאשֹׁון֙ וַאֲנִ֣י אַחֲרֹ֔ון
"I am first and I am last."

ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ πρῶτος καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος
"I am the first and the last."

If you look at the Hebrew and the Greek, you can see that the words are different than "Alpha and Omega." Their meaning is entirely different.

Yes. Neither verse says "alpha and omega." Isaiah 44:6 has Yahweh claiming to be first and last. Revelation 1:17 has Jesus claiming to be first and last. How are they different?

[onewithhim]

אֲנִ֤י רִאשֹׁון֙ וַאֲנִ֣י אַחֲרֹ֔ון
"I am first and I am last."

ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ πρῶτος καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος
"I am the first and the last."

If you look at the Hebrew and the Greek, you can see that the words are different than "Alpha and Omega." Their meaning is entirely different.

Yes. Neither verse says "alpha and omega." Isaiah 44:6 has Yahweh claiming to be first and last. Revelation 1:17 has Jesus claiming to be first and last. How are they different?

Jehovah is the first and last of all things. Jesus is the first and last of the Beings that made it to heaven after he was resurrected, and the last provision for salvation. Those meanings are different than Alpha and Omega. One can see the difference in the words if one takes the time to check out an Interlinear Bible. Therefore, Jehovah cannot be said to have died, as in Revelation 1:17,18. Jehovah is Alpha and Omega, while Jesus is only "the first and the last." Not Alpha and Omega.

[Difflugia]

Jehovah is the first and last of all things. Jesus is the first and last of the Beings that made it to heaven after he was resurrected, and the last provision for salvation.

This is the same argument that you make for προσκυνέω meaning something different when applied to God the Father as opposed to God the Son. You want them to be different, so they are.

Those meanings are different than Alpha and Omega.

The first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. Much different.

One can see the difference in the words if one takes the time to check out an Interlinear Bible. Therefore, Jehovah cannot be said to have died, as in Revelation 1:17,18.

Therefore? You know what a non sequitur is, right?

Jehovah is Alpha and Omega, while Jesus is only "the first and the last." Not Alpha and Omega.

If you say so. Unfortunately, your say-so is all you have.

[JehovahsWitness]

To clarify



DEAD/DEATH: Total non-existence. The complete opposite of life.

RESURRECTION The return to life of an individual who has previously died

SHEOL /HADES The biblical term for the symbolic common grave of mankind. A state of non-existence.

GHENENNA A literal rubbish dump outside of Jerusalem, used by Jesus to symbolize death /non-existence without any hope of a resurrection.

LAKE OF FIRE The equivalent of GEHENNA (see above)

HELL The English word used in most bibles for one or more of the above.

NOTE For the modern day reader, influenced by false religious teaching, the word HELL represents a place where individuals are tortured after they die.

DOES HELL EXIST? No part of an individual survives their death; It is therefore impossible for them to experience any pain or mental or emotional anguish. There is no place were the devil, demons or wicked people continue to exist indefinitely. There is no place of torture for the wicked.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BIBLE "HELL", THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED